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Form 8840 Substantial Presence Correct Completion


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Being Canadian we have ascertained that because hubby has spent 186 days based on the 2014, 2013, 2012 formula we need to complete one of these forms, and submit before mid June. However we are not clear on certain lines of how much info we should include. If those in a similar position could comment I would really appreciate it. Just have the little guy on the shoulder that says "never volunteer any more information than they ask for, just answer honestly", but equally don't want to with-hold anything that they deem we should have disclosed and risk inadvertently causing ourselves, fines, problems or investigations further down the road.


My personal days are far less than the 183 stated but because he has to complete, is it worth me also doing so, as the intention is for us to spend more and more time together travelling now each year going forwards? As I said "the intention" is there! Also bearing in mind the fact we own property in the USA, should I just complete one anyway albeit I don't meet anywhere near the number of days stated.


We have our principal residence in Alberta Canada, File our taxes etc there annually, all business is conducted there, all vehicles registered there, primary health care, etc however, there appears to be some anomalies on some of the lines.


Line 14 is easy = principal residence Alberta Canada, but line 15 uses the words "permanent and available to you at all times throughout 2014" residence. We also own a home in Florida, we don't rent it out or generate any form of income from it, used for personal vacation use, so do we state that there or is that not classified as "permanent" in their eyes, and it most certainly is not available to us throughout the whole year, as we are limited to not being in the USA for more than 183 days in any one year. Not sure whether we need to disclose this property there or not as the wording kind of contradicts itself to me with regards to the fact that we are limited on how much time we can use it as per US immigration.


Line 20a,b,c,d. Routine Personal Banking Activities Location. Whilst we do have a Bank of America Account, apart from an occasional use of a withdrawal of cash, paying Fla property taxes, or for paying one monthly utility bill that won't accept payment from our Canadian Bank account, all our banking business is done through our Canadian Bank Account and Visa (mainly visa to get travel points).


We have a numbered Alberta company that we trade funds from on the markets, US and Canadian margin accounts but through a Canadian broker. In the instructions it states:


Line 29

For stocks and bonds, indicate the country of origin of the stock company or debtor. For example, if you own shares of a U.S. publicly traded corporation, the investment is considered located in the United States, even though the shares of stock are stored in a safe deposit box in a foreign country.


Technically hubby and I don't own these USA stocks as they are held by the Alberta numbered company, and our personal investments are in Canadian only based instruments to the best of our knowledge. Again, we are not sure what we should be doing here for sure, but assume nothing as we don't "personally" own any US stocks at this juncture but that may change in the future as our circumstances change as we become chronologically more challenged over time. When the company sells or shorts a USA trading stock we are charged a few cents by US irrespective of the fact that it is done in Canada.


Thanks for the feedback from you all that this effects or those with the IRS knowledge, it's wonderful to hear your interpretations. From a purely curious point of view it'd be most interesting to know how many Canadians that spend in the USA, more than the 183 day limit totalled over the 3 previous years formula do actually complete this 8840 form. I believe the penalty to be up to $1,000 for not doing so if I've read correctly.



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