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Fulltimer statistics


BrianT

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Is being a full timer some kind of badge of honor? Why do we have to label anybody?

I don't believe his question was an effort to label anyone. Is that so different from wondering how many people are RVers or how many have fivers, or class A's? What if I asked how many are snowbirds, is that somehow bad? I think that all of those numbers can be very interesting but don't see why anyone should be offended by the question. We sometimes seem to take offense over very little things even though the question was quite innocent. If it doesn't matter to us, lets not make an issue of it? I still wonder how many fulltimers there are and how many snowbirds as well as just plain RV owners. Am I somehow discriminating by wondering? Since we used to be fulltimers but we clearly are not fulltime now, will that then make it OK to wonder?

 

Would it then be labeling to ask how many are members of Escapees or Good Sam RV clubs?

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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I didn't anticipate a debate on the definition of a fulltimer.

 

I was thinking of a much larger picture that also includes time and the flow of life as it enters and leaves large percentages of nights spent in an RV.

 

This forum tends to focus on those in the part of their lives when RV living is a major part of life. Rightfully so. I just wanted to see what more of the before and after parts of life looks like on a larger scale.

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Without labels , how would anyone know who to call in an emergency or for anything else ?

 

Get sick , just pick up the phone and whoever answers will help you or not . ???

 

And , you could take that a step farther and go to the grocery store , which might or might not be a grocery store because there are no labels to indicate one way or the other , and pick up a can of beans or maybe it'll be sardines or rat poison or ...

 

Amazing , but , it takes all kinds ... ;)

Goes around , comes around .

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I didn't anticipate a debate on the definition of a fulltimer.

 

I was thinking of a much larger picture that also includes time and the flow of life as it enters and leaves large percentages of nights spent in an RV.

 

This forum tends to focus on those in the part of their lives when RV living is a major part of life. Rightfully so. I just wanted to see what more of the before and after parts of life looks like on a larger scale.

 

That may be limited only by your imagination or lack thereof . ;)

Goes around , comes around .

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I didn't anticipate a debate on the definition of a fulltimer.

 

I was thinking of a much larger picture that also includes time and the flow of life as it enters and leaves large percentages of nights spent in an RV.

 

This forum tends to focus on those in the part of their lives when RV living is a major part of life. Rightfully so. I just wanted to see what more of the before and after parts of life looks like on a larger scale.

 

 

Doesn't take much to get that discussion started Bryan. :lol:

 

Newt

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LIVINGSTON TX

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The government awarded a $50 million dollar grant to complete just this study and to provide the administration with the statistics. It took a full year to design the 4 page questionnaire that encompassed all of the issues, including some mentioned here.

 

It was mailed out, addressed to "Resident"

Berkshire XL 40QL

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Gee, I don't mind being labeled. Suits me just fine. Call me whatever.....we live in our RV. We may sleep someplace else occasionally (typically the truck), but we LIVE in our RV. :)

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I didn't anticipate a debate on the definition of a fulltimer.

 

I was thinking of a much larger picture that also includes time and the flow of life as it enters and leaves large percentages of nights spent in an RV.

I understand as some years ago I too tried to get some opinions on this, with pretty much the same result. I don't know how to avoid this sensitivity, but I agree with you that it is an interesting topic and one that could be of great interest if we could discuss it without the issues of choosing sides or making definitions. I have come to suspect that only a small percentage of those who start out planning to be whatever they believe to be fulltimers but are gone from the RV community before many years pass and perhaps after only a few months. I would still like to know what people think is the case.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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The definition of Full-timers is varied. We have friends who live in a RV 24/7 365 but it is anchored in a RV park. . We have friends who have lots in the SW and Florida. They may spend several week or months on the lot. We have a S&B in Ohio but spend most of the time living in our RV. Who is a full timer and who is not and why do we need a label.

 

Years ago MY definition of a full timer was a person who lived in a RV 24/7/365 and had NO other residence anywhere and we know people who do just that. We have since come to understand that it makes no difference call yourself whatever you wish . It is OK with me. We call our selves long timers because we have been RV'ing for a long time. Oh our 5th wheel when at the S&B is right beside the S&B plugged in and fully operational. We go back and forth at times so what is that.,, a back and forther???

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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I don't believe his question was an effort to label anyone. Is that so different from wondering how many people are RVers or how many have fivers, or class A's? What if I asked how many are snowbirds, is that somehow bad? I think that all of those numbers can be very interesting but don't see why anyone should be offended by the question. We sometimes seem to take offense over very little things even though the question was quite innocent. If it doesn't matter to us, lets not make an issue of it? I still wonder how many fulltimers there are and how many snowbirds as well as just plain RV owners. Am I somehow discriminating by wondering? Since we used to be fulltimers but we clearly are not fulltime now, will that then make it OK to wonder?

 

Would it then be labeling to ask how many are members of Escapees or Good Sam RV clubs?

 

You have a unique ability to put words in people's mouths. I wasn't referring to the OP's question. I was talking about this asinine argument that comes up about 3 or 4 timers per year about what a "full timer" is.

 

How does that compare to what type of RV you own? I mean, most people are pretty clear on whether they own a fifth wheel or a bumper pull or a motorhome. There's been several threads asking that already and lot's of people participated.

 

Who said they were offended? Are you offended? I'm not. I haven't seen where anyone is offended, why bring that word into the discussion?

 

If it doesn't matter to you, then why do you need to differentiate people between full timers and non full timers?

 

Once again, one should know whether they belong to Escapees or Good Sam, no great mystery there.

 

The reason for my post was (and I think most people understood what I was talking about) to point out that some people think it is some kind of status symbol to be a "full timer". It isn't.

 

Sometimes, I think you just get bored and feel like you have to post something on every thread. Your post count bears that out.

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NadaThing, on 29 Dec 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

The government awarded a $50 million dollar grant to complete just this study and to provide the administration with the statistics. It took a full year to design the 4 page questionnaire that encompassed all of the issues, including some mentioned here.

 

It was mailed out, addressed to "Resident"

 

As flawed as it might have been, I'd have been curious about the data collected. Do you know if the study is still ongoing?

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You have a unique ability to put words in people's mouths. I wasn't referring to the OP's question. I was talking about this asinine argument that comes up about 3 or 4 timers per year about what a "full timer" is.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood what you are saying. Based upon your last post, we very much agree on that part. But please don't add things to what I said either. It does look that we may share that ability? I don't know that it is labeling to ask or even to attempt to define the term. That was my point. Looks like neither of us made ourselves very clear.

 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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I think any full-timer survey these days would get a very different answer than one might have gotten a decade earlier. From what I read on Facebook and other social media sites, I'm becoming convinced that many full-timers today are nothing like the RVers who constitute Escapees and FMCA memberships. I think we're close, if not past, the point where the average full-timer is a working person, with or without an accompanying family who happens to live in an RV either in a relatively fixed location (such as North Dakota) or at multiple locations where work can be found. They don't necessarily use their RVs for recreation and often have their rigs in wintertime locations where most of us would not want to be found in winter. This change in nature of what constitutes a full-timer will eventually, I believe, have a significant impact on the the entire RV business infrastructure.

Sandie & Joel

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Well I've decided that since a Park Model is listed as an RV, and we still have the motorhome, that we are still fulltimers - just have two different RVs (one mobile, one stationery) that we use during the year. :D

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
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I may be a Full Timer. In 2014 I have spent so far 361 nights in the MH. One night in a Motel waiting on the base plate & wiring put on the new toad.

And around another 5,170 plus nights in the MH prior to 2014 give or take maybe 20-25 spent in a hospitable or motel.

 

I'm not a Snowbird as I spend 7 months in my domain state of Florida and 5 months in Northern states. So I call myself a Sunbird for 5 months.

 

I don't have a Escapees or a FMCA membership. I have had a Lifetime Good Sam membership since the early 90's.

I don't work or volunteer to host anyplace. Retired for over 15 years and love it.

I use my MH for a week every spring for recreation when a friend meets me in Southerner IN. for a week of crappie fishing.

I own no S&B or lot of any kind anywhere and never plan on having any in the future.

 

So you can badge me "FULL TIME" and it is a status symbol to me. If you don't agree then that is OK also. :D

As I don't really give a S*** what others think I am. :)

Full Time since Oct. 1999
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This change in nature of what constitutes a full-timer will eventually, I believe, have a significant impact on the the entire RV business infrastructure.

Joel, do you think it is really that much greater today than in past surges of construction and/or mineral booms? I imagine that you know that the first Escapees were all of them traveling construction workers? Back in the 70's we had neighbors who would be gone for months at a time to RV to job sites as he was a construction electrician, as Joe Peterson was. Teton travel trailers was founded to build an RV that could be comfortable in very cold weather and was marketed primarily to the construction workers.

 

I have Kay Peterson's book, "History of the Escpees RV Club" but it really doesn't tell a great deal about the earliest membership other than to list the numbers in the different age groups. Even then, there were more members past the family age with only 19 members 40 or below but there were also only 5 members above the age of 65. This when there were 100 members. Based upon those numbers it would look like the Escapees were mostly still working but most of their kids were grown.

 

I wish that there were some way to see just who the current RV buyers are. I think that it would be very interesting to see some numbers that were more than just some of us speculating. If I knew of some way to find such data, I'd happily research it but can't figure out where to look? I suspect that the construction workers have always been a pretty significant part of the RV customer base, at least for the larger trailers. We were in several RV parks on our way back from SD this past fall which were nearly full of traveling workers and there were some with younger kids, but it didn't seem to be more than 1/3 or less, but even that is a guess. The park we spent a week in near Loveland, CO had enough children that a school bus stopped at the park and it picked up around 20 or so kids.

 

Reading the Escapee Magazine, it has been mentioned that much of the efforts of Travis & Melanie Carr are aimed at reaching the younger RVers. I wonder if they are making any contact in the construction community?

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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No offense of any kind taken here. There are lots of reason people get into an rv. Retirement. Natural disaster. Travel. Economic troubles. And people stay varying lengths of time. For a few months to do some traveling. For a few years to see the country. For a season while they build house. For an adventure. For a forever change of lifestyle. And people drop out for varying reasons. Have traveled all they want to. Have medical needs that keep them less than mobile. Have family they don't want to leave. Have found the place they want to settle. Got a more traditional job that they like. And lots more reasons I haven't mentioned.

 

I think each one here has their somewhat unique story and many have shared in other threads over the years. And I can appreciate every one of them regardless of what kind of title they or anyone else attaches to their way of living, or even if they refuse to take on any kind of title. No problem.

 

The life cycles and demographics of rvers might be one of those subjects that never will have a lot of quantitative data associated with it. As has been mentioned, the mobile and transitory nature of many rvers make it difficult to fit into the neat and tidy categories that society likes to rationalize and just that makes any kind of hard data even more of a challenge.

 

Thanks for the input! It's still an interesting topic. Maybe one of those government studies will actually come up with something of interest someday. :) (Hey, a guy can dream. LOL!)

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Joel, do you think it is really that much greater today than in past surges of construction and/or mineral booms?

 

Kirk,

 

I have no way of comparing today's oil and minerals boom with those of the past. But there is no question in my mind that there are far more people resident in RV parks than there were just four years ago when we started full-timing. As an admin of RV Park Reviews, I can tell you there is a constant refrain from reviewers who dislike the fact that so many parks have "long term residents" yet they are virtually unavoidable in parks all over the country. These are typically folks who get up early in the morning to go to work and further infuriate traditional RVers because they make noise when others are sleeping. In some parts of the country, most notably in west Texas and North Dakota, it is rather difficult to obtain RV sites for short term occupancy.

 

Regardless of whether or not this is a new phenomena or a return to one of the past, it is rather different from the RV environment of even a decade ago. Things that interest these "new" RVers will be different from those that appealed to the older, retiree RVer. The Facebook groups are full of questions about winterizing for severe winter conditions, homeschooling, restoring vintage RVs, etc. It's difficult to see how, for example, working families with children will relate to traditional RV rallies and the activities they would find there. My understanding is that the loss of membership in RV organizations continues fairly unabated across both general purpose organizations such as FMCA as well as manufacturer-led groups such as the Winnebago Club.. When my wife and I attended the Escapade in 2011 there were less than 1,000 RVs and people talked about how the attendance had fallen. I gather this year the expectation is for ~500. The very fact that the half price membership "special" has continued for so many months is, itself, a sign that things are not well. Throughout the forums there are repeated discussions of whether the ~$40/yr for this organization or that one is worth what you put into it. People on the Facebook groups seem rather pragmatic; most seem interested in whether or not there's a cost/benefit advantage to joining a group. Camaraderie seems lower on their priority list.

 

I'm not making any predictions but am simply observing that the entire RV industry infrastructure needs to adapt to the rapidly changing demographic of "what is an RVer?" Entities and organizations that don't adapt may well find themselves headed for extinction.

 

Joel

Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake system
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I always thought it was a status symbol to be a fulltimer because I like doing it. However me calling myself one and a $ plus tax will get me a senior coffee at most MacDonalds. I think I must be one for my own definitions since I have spent les than 30 days sleeping somewhere else but my TT since Nov. 1996 and not always at the same location. Other definitions may work for other people and thats cool by me.

 

 

 

(some times you just have to poke the bear)

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I always thought it was a status symbol to be a fulltimer because I like doing it.

I think that there might be some of that for many who have longed for the life for a long time before finally achieving it. It may also be that there has been some reaction from those who have reacted to the old "trailer trash" labels of years gone by. But I really don't think that most people do so attempting to separate themselves from others.

 

I know that Joel is right that there are parts of the country where RV parks are full or nearly full all year long with working people. The places where we saw that were mostly construction or mineral industry workers in them. Based upon our summer travels, there are areas that the pleasure traveler has difficulty in finding a park to stay in. That leads to two questions......... Is this to be a permanent change and how will that impact the group of RV folks that we are a part of?

 

I think that the working RVer is dominant in parks in specific areas but not everywhere, or at least that was true of our summer travels. It might be interesting to hear reports of what was observed by folks here as they traveled over the past 6 months to a year? We found that in Kansas the parks did have a few working people but were mostly traveling senior visitors when there in April. We found most parks were half or less filled and had few working people or children as we traveled to Escapade in Goshen. The park in Cedar Rapids, IA was nearly empty once Sunday evening came around and there were no problems finding places to stay between there and SD where we spent our summer. At Wall, SD there were quite a few working folks in the park we stayed in, but it was still only half filled when we stopped a week before Memorial Day. The Black Hills parks seem to still be mostly tourist filled with little indication of large numbers of working people. After Labor Day we spent a week in Cheyenne, WY and most parks there did have some openings but some were nearly full with mostly working folks. Interestingly, the older, lower priced parks seemed to be the most full and the least looked to be the new KOA. When we moved down to Loveland, CO we found spaces available but more so for our small RV than for the larger ones. The largest park in the area (Johnson's Corner) was nearly full and most of the people did look to be working in construction or minerals. Loveland RV Resort, which is much more upscale and prices reflect it, was probably no more than 2/3 filled, if that. The remainder of our trip back to TX we found pretty much what we expected with parks no more than half filled and many mostly empty and while there did appear to be a few working folks, not notably more than in previous trips.

 

How about some others sharing what they observed in the past year's travels?

 

EDIT: One other observation is that the parks filled with working families also seemed to be in declining state of maintenance and care. I don't know if the difference is one of who the clientele is or possibly just the effects of constant heavy use, but the RV parks filled with retired and vacation folks seemed to be cleaner and in over all better condition and the rates per night were higher. Using Loveland as an example, the two parks we checked most closely were $30/night for the working one and $45/night for the nicer one.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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As flawed as it might have been, I'd have been curious about the data collected. Do you know if the study is still ongoing?

BrianT, I was being sarcastic. Don't know about you but our mail forwarder will not forward mail that isn't specifically addressed to us. 3rd class junk addressed to "Resident" is automatically recycled.

Berkshire XL 40QL

Camphosting and touring


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and in over all better condition and the rates per night were higher.

 

And there you have it - - it is all about what the owner can get from the clientele and how much effort they are willing to put into attracting the clientele.

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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NadaThing, on 30 Dec 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

BrianT, I was being sarcastic. Don't know about you but our mail forwarder will not forward mail that isn't specifically addressed to us. 3rd class junk addressed to "Resident" is automatically recycled.

 

LOL!! I was a little slow on the uptake on that one, wasn't I? LOL!!

 

I am a little spoiled in some ways being a fulltimer (and I'll go ahead and use the term for myself since I have no other home or real estate of any kind right now and do live in an rv for probably 350+ days and nights out of the year). I have no land line and haven't received a telemarketer call in a very long time. Having a mail service, I have also not received a piece of junk mail in a very long time.

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It might be interesting to hear reports of what was observed by folks here as they traveled over the past 6 months to a year?

Last February, an RV park in New Bern, NC had 27 working fulltimers (primarily construction workers from a local project) and 5 fulltime workampers. Most of the guests at the park we stayed at near Pennsacola, FL in March were workers employed on a pipeline, road repaving and plant shutdown although our neighbor was an independent insurance adjuster that worked disasters. The RV park we stayed at in Vicksburg, MS at the end of March had about 25 long term working folks in the backin sites along the whole outside perimeter of the park. We have been to a park in Dixon, TN several times and it is always nearly full of working folks as it was last April. They have some pull throughs that are generally available for overnight or short term stays. In April, most of the 24 long full hookup sites at the County Fairgrounds in Clarksdale, MS were taken by working folks. In October, the park we stayed at for one night in Liberal, KS had about half their 39 sites occupied long term by working folks that left early in the morning. We usually stay once a year at a mobile home park in Great Bend, KS where most of those staying in RVs are working the harvest for the farm coops. At the end of October, at a park in Lynnville, IN, we were one of two transients and there were 11 long term stays that left for work every morning.

 

In contrast, we spent part of August and all of September in New Mexico staying in Forest Service, BLM, state park and COE campgrounds. Other than the hosts, there were no long term stays. I have no idea how many fulltimers there were other than the one or two hosts in each campground.

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Another source of data about RV owners, but not specifically fulltimers is the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association's (RVIA) "RV Consumer Demographic Profile". The entire report must be purchased, but a summary of the 2011 survey can be read online. RVIA also tracks manufacturer deliveries which should be somewhat of an indicator of sales.

 

A couple of differences jump out between the Escapees and Good Sam Data and the industry data. The Good Sam survey found that 15% of respondants travel with children. The RVIA survey found that 39% of RVers had children under 18 in the home. Seems like a big difference or do Good Sam members just travel without the kids?

 

The RVIA data states that the typical (average age?) RVer is 39. 82% of Good Sam survey respondants were over 55. The Escapees survey reports the median age of respondants at 68 for members and 67 for spouses.

 

One of the questions that is raised in my mind from the manufacturer's data is that towable (5er and travel trailer) deliveries and presumably sales are consistantly 10 times or more that of Class A Motor Homes but 48.5% of Escapees survey respondants and 43% of Good Sam survey respondants own Class A Motor Homes, so where are all the towables and who owns them? Are they being used as permanent affordable housing? Are they sitting in one spot as weekend/vacation spots? Are they in FEMA storage lots waiting for the next disaster? Are they owned by folks that don't belong to Escapees, Good Sam or other RV associations/clubs?

 

One of the real mysteries to me is that 70% of the respondants to the Good Sam survey said that they were not a member of an RV club. Does that mean other than Good Sam? I couldn't find any description of how the Good Sam data was collected, what the sample size was, etc.

 

More questions than answers especially regarding fulltimers.

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