Hopelessly Lost

[bruce t]

Kirk it would be great if we could find a supplier of crystal balls. We would make a fortune and not have to worry about money!!! Two friends. One was given a year to live. Died 4 weeks later. Another of our friends was given 6-12 months to live in 1989. She turned 95 on Christmas eve!!

 

My point being that life is not a rehearsal. If spending money, read finance, make life more enjoyable for you then by all means borrow money. But do it because you want to do it and not try to justify borrowing money based on an unwinable argument about finance. Because no matter how you present your case there will be a counter argument by someone.

 

Actually I think religion, politics and finance should be a banned subject!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one wins.

 

regards

[bruce t]

Barb I'm not arguing for or against finance as such. All I'm saying is that enjoying life is the key regardless of how you finance it. Just don't use a finance argument to justify buying something that makes life more enjoyable. Folks are too quick to defend their actions based on some misguided information. Don't try to justify everything to everyone. There's no point. (I just lashed out on a new expensive camera for the simple reason I wanted to. Plain and simple).

 

We are currently looking at down sizing our home. It makes NO financial sense at all. But it will make our life more relaxed and enjoyable. Just like buying an RV, life doesn't revolve around those who are 'smartest' with their money. Heck if that was the case we may well be hobos. Maybe that wouldn't be too bad either.

 

regards

[Barbaraok]

I think the issue is that people are bullied on forums, including this one, when they suggest that they are going to finance their purchase so that they can enjoy the fulltiming lifestyle. It is the terms like "one should NEVER….", especially when someone new is asking the question and has no experience with the regulars on whichever forum where they are posting their initial questions.

 

Barb

[bruce t]

You're right Barb. Forums are hot beds of subjects that are often derailed by poor use of the English language. We've all become lazy and often write in such a way that leaves us open to missunderstanding. Or missinterpretation. Bad spellun n reading between da lines. Making a point can often come across poorly.

 

Now what we need is some good English lessons! Hmmmm!

 

Bottom line is to remember that forums are forums. We've all been around long enough to keep an open mind on what we read.Haven't we?

 

regards

[Guest ticat900]

We've all been around long enough to keep an open mind on what we read.Haven't we?

 

BruceT well said I would say its obvious this does not get through to a certain poster on here

[earnnetwealth]

We financed the new Ram, they gave us 1% interest. The home is paid for, and no real other debt so to speak of, why the heck not finance it.

[Barbaraok]

We financed the new Ram, they gave us 1% interest. The home is paid for, and no real other debt so to speak of, why the heck not finance it.

 

 

When we bought the Subaru they were running a 0% for something like 24 months or so. Like you, why not take advantage of a good deal to spread things out over a couple of years, saved us a tax bite on withdrawing from tax deferred accounts.

 

Barb

[Guest ticat900]

We financed the new Ram, they gave us 1% interest. The home is paid for, and no real other debt so to speak of, why the heck not finance it.

sounds good in theory.Did you check on the cash price to buy the same truck verses the 1% offer? I was looking at a 2014 GM at 84 months no interest but the cash purchase price from GM was several thousand cheaper. Seems nothing,s ever free not even when they say it is

[Guest ticat900]

I guess I just grew up in a arena of people that taught me if you cant pay cash you don't need it. My parents were this way. Iam that way

The last personal loan I had was when i was 21 .Borrowed 700$ to buy new appliances. Paid it off asap and have never borrowed money personally since

Borrowed money for business and lots of it but to me that's part of owning and running your own show but even those loans I would make sure

I paid it off in way less than the loan time anyhow to each their own in their own way of doing things matters not to me

[earnnetwealth]

sounds good in theory.Did you check on the cash price to buy the same truck verses the 1% offer? I was looking at a 2014 GM at 84 months no interest but the cash purchase price from GM was several thousand cheaper. Seems nothing,s ever free not even when they say it is

Actually we purchased in Phoenix. The EXACT same truck here was 15K higher in price. I printed off the page from the dealer web site and took it with me. The sticker on the truck when we got there was 10K higher than the price listed on the web site, and they wanted to fuss about it. I told them they had to give it to me for the listed price as advertised, and so they (reluctantly) gave it to me for the internet price. It would have been worth going there for the 5 Grand difference, but over all because I printed the price from the web site, I ended up saving 10 Grand.

I was going to wait until Feb or mar 2015 to buy, but if I had I would have NEVER got the truck for the price I paid.

 

With a contract price of 1% interest, I would have been a fool to walk away from that deal and not finance it. I would have financed it for the 4% that Jack spoke of above, but at 1%, and I will pay it off WAY early, so it's almost the same a ZERO interest, because the payments I am at will allow me to make double payments. I will not go full term.

[earnnetwealth]

I guess I just grew up in a arena of people that taught me if you cant pay cash you don't need it. My parents were this way. Iam that way

The last personal loan I had was when i was 21 .Borrowed 700$ to buy new appliances. Paid it off asap and have never borrowed money personally since

Borrowed money for business and lots of it but to me that's part of owning and running your own show but even those loans I would make sure

I paid it off in way less than the loan time anyhow to each their own in their own way of doing things matters not to me

Hold on. I agree with you in the fact that I do not like debt, and I am very fortunate that at my still young age I am debt free. I do believe in paying things off and not holding debt.

My wife and I do in fact pay cash for almost everything, but there are times that financing just makes sense.

I just purchased a pretty high dollar investment, and by financing it the way I did, it will pretty much be the same as paying cash, just over a little time.

 

1% interest over a 48 month term, I will pay it off long before the term, so all my money is pure principal. I will be paying the same over a short time as if I had done cash up front. Look at it like a same as cash deal.

[Barbaraok]

sounds good in theory.Did you check on the cash price to buy the same truck verses the 1% offer? I was looking at a 2014 GM at 84 months no interest but the cash purchase price from GM was several thousand cheaper. Seems nothing,s ever free not even when they say it is

 

When we went with the 0% we didn't say anything about it while negotiating the price - just said we would be financing. The finance officer was flabbergasted, to say the least, because he had all this paperwork set up for a normal loan (and was expecting the usual lucrative kick back) when I said - oh, no, we're doing the "Subaru 0%" loan. The stammering, I'll need to go get different papers and check on that, etc., was kind of funny to watch. It had never occurred to them that someone would take advantage of the offer, the salesman just assumed we were like everyone else who walked in the door.

 

I do find it interesting that a lot of people seem to think that anyone who would use financing terms to their own advantage would somehow not have done due diligence in making sure that they explored the different opinions available to them.

 

Barb

[earnnetwealth]

I guess I just grew up in a arena of people that taught me if you cant pay cash you don't need it. My parents were this way. Iam that way

The last personal loan I had was when i was 21 .Borrowed 700$ to buy new appliances. Paid it off asap and have never borrowed money personally since

Borrowed money for business and lots of it but to me that's part of owning and running your own show but even those loans I would make sure

I paid it off in way less than the loan time anyhow to each their own in their own way of doing things matters not to me

I also own a business, and it is also debt free. We had to make some loans, but got them paid ASAP. Both my personal life and my business are 100% debt free, except for the new truck, and it will be paid early.

As long as you are responsible there is no reason not to use credit.

Again, back to what Jack said, make sure you can afford what you purchase. The deal on the truck was too good to walk away from, and being able to pay it off with NO interest so to speak of, well it just made good cents to us.

[Guest ticat900]

I also own a business, and it is also debt free. We had to make some loans, but got them paid ASAP. Both my personal life and my business are 100% debt free, except for the new truck, and it will be paid early.

As long as you are responsible there is no reason not to use credit.

Again, back to what Jack said, make sure you can afford what you purchase. The deal on the truck was too good to walk away from, and being able to pay it off with NO interest so to speak of, well it just made good cents to us.

Don I totally understand what you say.What I found with GM was 0% interest for up to 84 months but the same trucks was 3400$ cheaper if u did not use the 0% offer and paid out the truck at purchase time. maybe dodge really was a for real deal.

[Vette Racer]

I have bought from GM when they were quoting the 0% stuff, I tell them I will take 10K off MSRP AND the 0% financing, after a song and dance they usually do it, if they don't, a different dealer will. Usually you just have to play the game to get the best deal.

 

As for financing I'm in the group that says finance if it makes sense, you can cost yourself a lot of money if you are retired and take a lump sum out of your investments to pay for a big ticket item. Of course this all depends on what your income is and whether it will impact your standard of living while making the payment.

[Barbaraok]

I have bought from GM when they were quoting the 0% stuff, I tell them I will take 10K off MSRP AND the 0% financing, after a song and dance they usually do it, if they don't, a different dealer will. Usually you just have to play the game to get the best deal.

 

As for financing I'm in the group that says finance if it makes sense, you can cost yourself a lot of money if you are retired and take a lump sum out of your investments to pay for a big ticket item. Of course this all depends on what your income is and whether it will impact your standard of living while making the payment.

 

I'm not sure that everyone understands how money from IRA/401k/403b can be taxed if taken out in lump sums. Depending upon your main income stream funding, it might cost you $25K or more in taxes to take out $100K from an IRA in a lump sum, not to mention the lose of tax free earnings from the $100K. If you take it out over time, you can trim that SUBSTANTIALLY, retain the earnings and should some emergency arise, still have the funds to cover that expense.

 

Barb

[earnnetwealth]

Don I totally understand what you say.What I found with GM was 0% interest for up to 84 months but the same trucks was 3400$ cheaper if u did not use the 0% offer and paid out the truck at purchase time. maybe dodge really was a for real deal.

The thing in my case is that I caught them by surprise. It was wise of me to take the print out in with me. That's how I ended up with $5K lower than local and $5K lower than the price at the Dealer. I ended up $10K total saving just by driving 3 hours up the road.

No matter how it worked out, I still pay the same price weather cash or finance. It was a good deal, and I got lucky.

 

They had two on the lot that morning when I called them to have a person put hands on them.

When I got there, I met the salesman. As we were getting ready to drive for test, another guy was wanting to test it.

Had I been 5 minutes later, I would have most likely not got the truck. The other truck had been sold and they were bringing it out of detail as we were doing the paper work on our deal.

In the end I am very happy with the deal.

[Guest ticat900]

The thing in my case is that I caught them by surprise. It was wise of me to take the print out in with me. That's how I ended up with $5K lower than local and $5K lower than the price at the Dealer. I ended up $10K total saving just by driving 3 hours up the road.

No matter how it worked out, I still pay the same price weather cash or finance. It was a good deal, and I got lucky.

 

They had two on the lot that morning when I called them to have a person put hands on them.

When I got there, I met the salesman. As we were getting ready to drive for test, another guy was wanting to test it.

Had I been 5 minutes later, I would have most likely not got the truck. The other truck had been sold and they were bringing it out of detail as we were doing the paper work on our deal.

In the end I am very happy with the deal.

happy ending and a very good deal for sure

[oscarvan]

There is some good and some really bad information on this thread. The main take away I can give those asking the questions is to find knowledgeable advice regarding the specifics of THEIR situation. And there too there is good and bad advice..... "I know this wealth manager made my brother a million" versus, "find a certified financial planner that is paid by the hour and NOT through commission on what they sell you". But I digress.

 

Everyone's situation is different. We are not full time at the moment, but spend at least two months a year outside our S&B. I have an income stream and occasionally touch some pretty nasty tax brackets, and my investments are doing well in a mostly tax deferred environment. Taking money out to pay cash would cost me, a lot. Like many others, I buy new, of average quality, and own for about 5 years before I trade in and get fresh and improved technology. Money is CHEAP right now, so I look at that monthly nut as the "rent", and compare it to the price of airfare and hotel rooms. The quality of life issues are WHY we RV, but that has nothing to do with the financial decisions I make. When I retire we hope to spend a lot more time in a higher quality RV and depending on interest rates then we will re-evaluate how to approach the subject.

 

Like I said, everyone's story is different. Educate yourself, and do what works for you.

[Kirk W]

One of the things which 32 years working in customer service taught me was there are are two words which one should be very careful about using and if at all possible avoid totally. Always & never! It is pretty easy to use antidotal stories to support any opinion but there are very few if any that will apply to every person in every situation. On top of that is the fact that each of us have a comfort level that may shift a position that would make complete logic if comfort is ignored. My parents began married life at the worst point of the depression era and struggled under a burden of debt from that for most of their child-rearing years. As a result, once they managed to pay off all that they owed, the never again borrowed any money for anything because they slept better being debt free. In my opinion a person's comfort level is usually a trump card over nearly any other reasoning.

 

***Note ~ notice that I carefully avoided using either of the two dangerous words!

[Jack Mayer]

While I typically would agree with Bruce and Ticat on their general principles of low or no debt there are always reasonable exceptions that match to individual circumstances. Thus I presented my points in my original post.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with financing something that you CAN AFFORD. The problem is, many people use financing to obtain something they cannot afford. Ticat had some good examples, I thought. But I want to stress that financing should be a convenience or an advantage of managing your money to purchase something you CAN afford.

 

While we generally lived our lives debt free we would occasionally use financing if it made sense. And we always paid it off early - including houses. I would likely do the same thing on an RV loan. Or at least make extra principle payments.

 

There is no question that counting on a "better return" than the finance rate is a gamble. Much of life is a gamble. But I am also paying back with depreciated dollars. Which is nontrivial. And I have a guaranteed income stream which could be used to pay the loan amounts without affecting my lifestyle (now or in a reasonable future).

 

As I said, and Barb said, each situation is different.

[freestoneangler]

Gee, and just when things were starting to look clearer . We have been debt free since 1998 and plan on staying that way God willing. Certainly borrowing money at 1% while the money you would have used for the purchase earns 4% or more is smart. Leveraging money is a powerful financial tactic. It's often why some folks appear to be quite flush when in reality they are merely quite leveraged. So long as they are responsible for their debt, regardless of how the plan works or not, I have no issue with that. I do object to people highly leveraging, enjoying the fruits, but then walking away when things go bad. That only means the rest of the system has to absorb those losses which ultimately get past along and that is unfair. For us, we sleep better not having debt... it's all about personal choices.

 

Besides, we still need to find the right unit before we can pay for it.

[oscarvan]

I do object to people highly leveraging, enjoying the fruits, but then walking away when things go bad. That only means the rest of the system has to absorb those losses which ultimately get past along and that is unfair.

 

Seen people do that. Don't like it.

[freestoneangler]

Any Holiday Rambler Admiral series owners out there? We like a couple of there floor plans and are hoping the driver accommodation is suited for my length. I don't see lots of information/reviews on them, but they look pretty nice.

[mohamer]

Freestoneangler,

Sorry I threw the thread to a financial thread like that!! Hot topic for sure.

No matter how you pay for the RV it needs to fit you and the wife.

I do stand by my statement that a payed off RV is nice to have.

More important is that everything fits me and the wife as we have to live with it or go get another that does.

 

Like I said, Enjoy the search, I hope you find what you are looking for and I don't care if you pay for with a Visa Card!!