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2014: I'm still sick of Android


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I ordered an 8" tablet, Windows not Android, and I liked it for just consumption, but for any creation I'm a fan of 11.6" tablets. My Venue is 10.8" and is about as comfortable as the 11.6" screen in a tablet for me. The sweet spot for me is 11.6 - 13" for tablets. In a laptop 11.6" is too small to me because of the distance from my eyes. I'm near sighted and take my driving glasses off to read, where my wife puts hers on to read.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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That's an interesting observation, Derek. I hadn't thought about how a person's "sightedness" might affect what would be comfortable for them. I'm farsighted and have to wear glasses to read small stuff. I can get along without them most of the time but for fine print, I need 'em. It's more comfortable with them just for general up close anything.

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RV hit a good topic there. I use a 15" laptop for most of my work. It's a big enough screen that I can read a small font at arms length without having to find my glasses. A 10" tablet is also a necessity so that I can hold it in my lap or a comfortable distance away and still be able to see it.

My almost new and improved LG something or another phone from Verizon was the biggest screen at the time without going to a phone capable tablet. I can't stand calling someone on my wife's phone, screen is so small I need a toothpick to push the numbers.

Alie & Jim + 8 paws

2017 DRV Memphis 

BART- 1998 Volvo 610

Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins

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Brian, you and I are on similar wavelengths. I like the 8.4 because it is big enough to do all consumption stuff on easily, yet small and light enough to handle easily. My 10" display is too small for production on most things (the T100), and too big when pulled off as just a tablet for consumption. Thus, I like the 13" for any production - it is light and easy to use. Full W8.1 touch. I used to find myself reaching for the W8.1 hybrid (T100) when going out. Now I reach for the 13" touch screen Asus as much. Not quite as handy and no tablet capability....the keyboard does not come off. But it is far easier to actually DO SOMETHING on than the 10". I think Derek is pretty accurate with the 11.6" being the roll-over point for a productivity machine. For me, anyway. And the 8.4 is perfect for my normal consumption.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
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No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
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Looking at screen sizes and shapes I'm finding that the 16x9 screens are great for watching movies but not so good for most of what I do. Reading on my 16x9 7 inch Nexus is either a couple words per line in portrait or only a few lines in landscape with the font size I need. The 16x10 12 inch Samsung is still the wrong shape and is too heavy to hold up for hours, like a hard cover book it needs a reading rest for more than a few minutes use. The bigger screen though gives you a book like reading experience in portrait but the lines are a bit long in landscape unless you really raise the font size.

 

I'm really tempted by the 8 inch devices and more square displays coming out, you still get portrait and landscape but they are far closer in aspect than 16x9 so movie watching is not as great but reading and web browsing seem to be a lot more natural and the weight is closer to a mass-market paperback so you don't need a book rest.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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Stan, for reading nothing beats the Kindle of your choice. I have a Paperwhite,and it is hard to beat for long-term reading.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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Hmmm,

This explains a lot. I just had Lynn measure the distance between my eyes and my screen on my Venue 11 Pro. 12". My vision on a 10.8" screen is sharp with no glasses from about 5" to 24". I am in my recliner kicked back to first notch and hold the tablet with my left hand in landscape mode and type one fingered with my right hand on the virtual keyboard with the tablet sitting on my abdomen midway between my naval and chest. So the weight is not all borne on my left hand and arm. This position also allows accurate touch use as it is stable and does not move around much. I use the larger Android type onscreen keyboard, not the full one with all keys, nor the split option, and I am learning my active stylus to use handwriting to text, but not using it much yet.

 

Both of my tablets, the 11.6" x2 and 10.8" are too heavy to hold away from my body or a rest for long.

 

Another ergonomic point is that I use the tiny frameless thin glasses so in stores, or while here in the recliner with Lynn watching "her" programs, I can look under my glasses easily at print or the tablet, and look up through my glasses to see the TV clearly. This is the opposite of the person who needs glasses to read, and will wear reading glasses perched low on their nose to look over their glasses to the TV, and down through their reading glasses to use the tablet as I do. I had not thought through the difference for folks who wear glasses to read. I read my books, now kindle, when I go to bed for however long it take for me to fall into it, then put it on the nightstand, and turn off the light and rack out. As I get older I have had to move an inch further away to read on my stomach as I sleep. Driving I need to look under them to see my smaller things like heater flap settings or radio controls, or even to look at my watch, it is blurry through my glasses, I look under or over.

 

All that to say I hadn't thought of the ergonomics of it. I liked the 8 inch Lenovo tablet because it could be held a lot like my kindle or a book as it actually weighed a lot less than a hardcover and about the same as a paperback. But I don't like them on a desk level stand at all. They are a bit small to sit on my chest and type on their tiny virtual keyboard.

 

I am seeing in this discussion how our vision and habits working around our vision can cause size and usability differences. I hadn't really given it much thought. I'll have to watch Lynn using hers more closely and go to Best Buy and Office Depot during heavy traffic times to watch how folks hold the tablets they are shopping or looking at.

 

My experiments with different types of stands is a direct result of trying out using my tablets as desktops, not laptops which I never really took to except for four of our seven years full time RVing. I preferred a desktop once I no longer had to carry my computer to the RV Park office, or to Starbucks to get a connection. And then, I never sat it on my lap for both heat, and typing issues. But my vision may also be apart of it. I am not one of the three inch away near sighted but rather pretty clear except for small print out to four feet, and TV is fine without glasses. But to read subtitles like the streaming tickers at the bottom of news screens I need glasses.

 

I think that the folks who are clear further away, or who without glasses have to hold them away longer than their arms reach, may have to really retrain themselves to use tablets.

 

I rarely use mine in portrait mode except when I am cleaning out my inbox. I prefer to clean out my inbox and detailed tasks and split screens on my 27" desktop.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Stan, for reading nothing beats the Kindle of your choice. I have a Paperwhite,and it is hard to beat for long-term reading.

 

I keep looking at Kindles, the 6 inch ones are too small and the bigger DX is hard to come by. I looked at the new line, Voyage, just a few days ago and the higher resolution is fantastic compared to the original and a bit better than the PaperWhite but they only come in the smaller size and that small size just doesn't work for me. I find I really like more words visible at one time and the 8 inch screen seems a great compromise in size, weight and text space.

 

DX: http://smile.amazon.com/Kindle-Wireless-Reading-Device-Display/dp/B0015TCML0/ref=sr_1_1

 

 

Another Kindle issue is the aggravation involved in getting non-Amazon content onto the device to read. I have a good collection of books that are fine in Google or most of the Android readers but not so good on a Kindle or the Android Kindle app.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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I have the Kindle basic button version and just bought the touch screen that is not the paper white, but the touch no selling for $79.99 when it was on sale in the Cyber Monday sales for $49.00. BTW Jack, if you have not bought a case for your paperwhite, I just bought a real leather with magnetic catch cover for mine that is made for both the paper white and my touch. It is $8.97 with Prime free shipping. This case would sell locally for fifty buck and no complaints. I highly recommend it. I can't believe the quality of it. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SR718O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Stan for me nothing beats the kindle. I thought I'd never stop using the lamp lit and solar analog readers. Now I can't imagine going back. If you can read a paperback the Kindle reads fine. I adjust the font size only to two settings. One for every day use, and one larger font for exercise bikes that have them too far away for me to read fine print. I am beginning to believe that long sighted folks are the majority, something I never even thought about.

 

Jack, to be honest the regular button Kindle was fine, but my spousal unit, who claimed she and we did not need tablets or smartphones until she got upset one night saying I hogged our then only tablet, the Galaxy Tab 10. That gave the excuse I needed to get the SurfaceRT used, and then led to the most expensive, yet recompensed 90% by sales of old units as new were tried and rejected or kept, two years of tech upgrades, trials of my life. We both got smartphones then upgraded them in the last two months too.

 

I am beginning to understand some of the disconnects between people in both sizes and functions. Put simply, my use for a laptop as a secondary computer are over. Let's be clear, all of my laptops save for the first four years of fulltiming, were secondary rarely used computers. I went from 17" to 14" screens BTW Jack, as I always had a full desktop. I sold my laptops and netbooks as soon as I got the x2. The laptops were back in the closets once I had tablets, and my desktop time went down too. From hours a day to an hour or two.

 

But I don't enjoy books on a computer screen or reading on my desktop or laptops back then. I prefer the non lighted kindles and no way will I again try reading book length book even on my tablets for longer than web and forum content takes. Certainly not for books. Can't or rather won't take a 10" tablet to bed. It won't fit on my nightstand, and can't be left in the bathroom all day until I'm ready to relax with a book. I just Prime borrow one after another as I am not a bestseller reader like some are of movies, or have to see or read it first, or be able to talk about it in the first wave. I have never been subject to peer pressure much at all.

 

So I take from a day to three months to read a book, depending on how busy life is at the moment, and the free Prime loans are even better than the library! No late fines! I always took a book to any office appointments. Not a laptop or tablet. My phone has an OLED which is better, but not where I want to read long content. But a Kindle in a nice protective case I can throw around like a book, now love it! Unlike many folks, I have tried my tablets for reading, desktops and laptops too! And now the Kindle. Strange and unintuitive though it seemed at first, I finally see what my friends were trying to tell me when they first came out! I didn't get one until in looking for a used Bose Wave radio with Bluetooth I ran across a guy who won one and he had it still sealed in the box, offered him $25 bucks and he took it. Seems no one called in a week his ad was up. So I had to be dragged kicking and screaming, or get the deal one could not refuse before I became a believer. See, since I didn't like reading on my computers a thought the Kindle was the same.

 

BTW, I had to pay late fines once a couple of years ago and emotionally was thrown back to 12 years old, waiting for the principal in the office, and started laughing hysterically at myself! Not from nerves, but how silly our reflex reactions and emotions can be. Fortunately all the librarians know me so I could explain and let them catch the giggle at how silly we humans can be. I nee to stop by and say hi as I've been absent for much of the last year.

 

Anyway, reading is different for lots of folks, as is eyesight, budget, and a lot of other factors. Same for tablets and computer form factors. I had a blast experimenting with using my tablets as desktops. But since I never typed in my lap, even when I had laptops, my tablets are my first real "typeable" off a physical desktop computer for me. I use voice for texts and calling on my smart phone where my wife like the sliding around phone typing. So the more I try to describe the preferences and why of mine from a perspective of having folks with different preferences explain theirs so fols undecided have a good spread of perspectives to chose from.

 

I wish I'd had that when Windows tablets first came out and I was sorting through them. I have found though that for me, all I nee are the specs now that I understand the importance of 1080p HD to me, and how weights and size and heat and speeds interact for the perfect tablet for me.

 

What surprises me are the number of folks who are clueless in online tech feedbacks about Windows tablets and still talk about the limitations of Android and Apple tablets, and lumping in Windows tablets with them. There are a LOT of folks that just haven't been exposed and truly think Windows 8.1 tablets are essentially the same as Windows RT/Android/iPad tablets. And even standing here in my house showing it to my son or a friend, have them say yeah but I prefer my Android or iPad, and truly believe they are the same. With my son I just gave him one. I love when he comes back with, "Dad, I had no idea! It is great!"

 

It's like Tesla. I still talk to folks here about the Elio supposedly, I hope, coming soon if they think they will have as much trouble direct marketing in states giving Tesla a stupid hassle, and trying to prevent them factory direct sales, with Pep boys for service, as Tesla had say "Tesla? What are they?" Really!

 

So we have to see if our premises are the same first. But for some, any new premise is a threat of one kind or another. Can't help them. But I'm sure enjoying this exchange Stan and Jack and all the others.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Looks like Microsoft is giving another trial of the Office for Android apps, more info in the linked article.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/06/office_apps_for_android_tablets_preview

 

 

 

I might well buy a Kindle at some point and just live with having to have my books split across more than one device BUT it is going to have to have a screen at least in the 8 inch range and more square than 16x9. I gave the Kindle a fair shot the other day at Staples and I just wasn't good with the 6 inch screen although the shape was good. No way my eyes are going to get any better so what is marginal today will be unacceptable at some point.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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Stan, the fonts are easily changed to larger and word wrap make that easy to handle. They do font sizes exceptionally well. Try having one of the folks at Staples show you how to change the fonts, then play around. Have you ever had anyone that actually own a Kindle say anything negative about them? Remember what my Gramps used to say - believe nothing that you hear, and only half of what you see!

Check these out! http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=kindle+dx

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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I have no problem with the font size, my issue is with the number of words shown on the screen at one time.

 

Sadly I still read some complicated stuff, where I at least need to see a full and fairly long paragraph. Smaller fonts gets me the number of words I need but are hard to read. Larger is easy to read but when I hit a tough spot I have to bump the size down or page back and forth to see all the text I need which does not help my more limited than it used to be comprehension.

 

I'd rather put up with a tablet for now and hope that Amazon does another large format device once they have the six incher well launched.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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Well I've had the ASUS Transformer Pad TF103 about a day now and I don't have anything overly great or overly bad about it yes. It have great clear screen for pictures and video. The 10.1 inch screen seems giant coming from my 7 Nexus. in some ways I like the larger screen and some ways I don't. I haven't got use to the larger touchscreen keyboard and doesn't seem as text friendly as my Galaxy 4s. I have had the keyboard go slow/dead but only on one APP. I'm not sure it could be the APP or maybe the Armor screen protector I put on will have to see. I was disappointed that my Banking APP wasn't compatible with this pad because I do use it a lot so will have to stick to my phone/PC. I'm still getting to know it so that's all for now.

 

Scott

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