New Lithium-Ion Battery Discovery Contradicts Everything You Thought You Knew

[RV_]

Everyone knows that Tesla just had a tremendous buy opportunity and that the analysts are sticking with their $325 target. Musk is building the megafactory as we type, and he is aware of the new technology before we are, I'm sure. Here is the latest in Lithium Ion battery tech. And at the bottom of the article they delve into Fuel cell breakthrough tech as well.

 

Excerpt:

 

"Researchers over at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory have made a new lithium-ion battery discovery that could prove a little disconcerting to a lot of folks in the energy storage field. The finding comes out of a first-of-its-kind analysis using X-ray absorption spectroscopy, and apparently it contradicts “numerous” studies aimed at improving the efficiency of lithium-ion batteries.

 

The good news is, the new lithium-ion battery discovery could accelerate the development of next-generation EV batteries, so let’s see what all the buzz is about.

 

The new lithium-ion battery research focused on unlocking some of the mystery behind the nanoscale function of the liquid electrolyte in lithium-ion batteries. For those of you new to the battery topic, the electrolyte is the stuff that enables an electrical charge to flow from the battery to whatever device you want to electrify, so yeah, the electrolyte is pretty important.

 

The electrolyte commonly used in lithium-ion batteries consists of a lithium salt dissolved in a solvent, typically based on an alkyl carbonate. Here’s the deal according to study co-author Richard SayKally of Berkeley Lab:

There’s disagreement in the battery industry on the nature of the local solvation environment of lithium ions in these solutions, a critical issue because the desolvation of the ions as they move through the negative electrode is believed to limit the electrical power that can be made available.

Until now, computer modeling has predicted that the solvation structure for the lithium ion is based mainly on tetrahedral coordination (a tetrahedron is a 3-D form made of four triangular faces) (and solvation is fancyspeak for the behavior of molecules in a solvent).

 

The Berkeley team found something quite different, and they used a quite different method to get there.

 

The team developed a new device that shoots a nanoscale “liquid beam” into a vacuum chamber, where it crosses an X-ray beam. To get the X-ray beam, they checked into beamline 8.0.1 of Berkeley Lab’s Advanced Light Source facility, which produces X-ray beams for X-ray spectroscopy.

That was the easy part, relatively speaking. The next step was to get hold of a supercomputer or two over at the National Energy Research Scientific Computing Center and decipher the results of the spectroscopy.

 

The team found that, in contrast to the solvation number of 2 or 3 characteristic of tetrahedral coordination, the lithium ion in the electrolyte had a solvation number of 4.5.

 

So, in order to develop more efficient electrolytes, foundational research into next-generation lithium-ion batteries needs to get over its focus on modeling based on tetrahedral coordination.

 

In other words, don’t hold your breath for a new super-efficient electrolyte to hit the commercial market any time soon, but the way forward is a lot more clear now.

 

What About Fuel Cells?

 

Okay, so much for the new lithium-ion battery discovery. If you’ve been checking out the horse race between Li-ion batteries and fuel cells for domination of the electric vehicle market, the new Berkeley discovery bumps things up a notch in favor of batteries.

That’s good news for Tesla and any other auto manufacturer that has committed exclusively to battery EV technology.

 

On the other hand, the Saykally Group at Berkeley Lab is also responsible for a discovery that could help blow the fuel cell market wide open, at least in terms of finding a more sustainable source for hydrogen fuel.

That study, published in 2007, used a “microjet” of fluid concept similar to the methodology deployed for the new lithium-ion battery study. The Saykally team found that you can generate hydrogen gas and an electrical current, too, by forcing a fluid through nanoscale conduits."

 

The whole article and the links to related articles is here: http://cleantechnica.com/2014/12/21/new-lithium-ion-battery-discovery-is-good-news-for-bevs/?utm_source=Cleantechnica+News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=28dc159b9d-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_term=0_b9b83ee7eb-28dc159b9d-331970081

[justRich]

Thanks for the link.

I wish that I'd kept yesterdays article about the Graphene screen that can filter hydrogen out of the air.

The rapid advancements in alternative fuels and battery technology makes a good conspiracy case for oil companies driving oil prices into the ground.

Can they see the end of fossil fuels in our near future?

 

[RV_]

Even one of the Saudi princes said he sees the peak demand rapidly approaching, with decaying demand and a downward spiral in the next 15 years. He said that regardless of PR and getting spin from the usual spin sources, that the majority of people hate the pollution and extortion style pricing that fossil fuels engender lately. Musk has driven us over the tipping point of the average man believing that solar and EVs are not only doable, but the entire future of transportation, both mass and individual. Solar and wind power combined with Tesla produced battery backup systems. Your graphene article would have been interesting too. There are scads of investment opportunities arising and separating the wheat from the chaff is the thing.

 

However with the lithium ion battery megafactory coming soon, combined with this and several other new research, it won't belong before we can buy fast electrics we can charge with our own solar systems. As well as make and store Hydrogen for a fuel cell for house backup power generation behind the batteries too.

[justRich]

If you haven't already, The Alchemy of Air is an interesting and factual book - and an eye-opener as to what can be achieved.

[RV_]

Thanks Rich!

I see it has a kindle link. I'll borrow it for my next book on Kindle.

[Pat & Pete]

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/11/27/4137344.htm

[justRich]

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/11/27/4137344.htm

Thank you.

[Pat & Pete]

Thank you.

[RV_]

Thanks!

[justRich]

The graphene polymer battery technology may be approaching production a lot faster than anyone realizes.

http://www.graphene-info.com/revolutionary-graphene-polymer-batteries-electric-cars claims graphene polymer battery will be in production this year.

 

"A big breakthrough was achieved on Dec. 4 when the so-called super battery for electric vehicles which charges in eight minutes due to the graphene polymer technology was released by Spanish company Graphenano and the University of Cordoba in Spain." according to this Taiwan based website: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150104000004&cid=1202

Will BIG OIL be affected?

 

[Vladimir]

Will BIG OIL be affected?

 

 

No, but BIG COAL will (IF this comes to pass). BIG WIND might be able to wean themselves off federal subsidies. Same for BIG SOLAR.

 

It would probably open a niche market for electric cars as a second vehicle. Will this allow cars to go 200 miles at 70 MPH between charging???

 

However, after 20 years I am still waiting for my magic batteries, mini gas turbine, and fuel cell!!! My solar cells did come down in price thanks to China. Now they are going back up....thanks to

 

There is really no substitute for oil as a transportation fuel.

 

The really huge change coming down the road is those self-driving cars. That is going to change everything and relatively soon.

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/04/the-road-to-self-driving-cars/index.htm

[RV_]

 

Will this allow cars to go 200 miles at 70 MPH between charging???

 

However, after 20 years I am still waiting for my magic batteries, mini gas turbine, and fuel cell!!! My solar cells did come down in price thanks to China. Now they are going back up....thanks to

 

 

Vlad,

The Teslas can now go 400 miles per charge. Nothing magic about that. The Superchargers are spaced apart so one can recharge in 20 mins., soon to be 10 minutes, which gives about 150 miles of range. But they do already go 400 miles at 70. The first 2008 Tesla Roadsters could do 200 miles easily. I believe they were 250 mile ranges, and the model S more.

 

Let's not forget the battery megafactory being built now. This can make gem go perhaps the thousand mile range Musk has said is coming several times.

 

But 250-400 mile ranges, and 150 between fast trip charging in 20 minutes sounds fine to me. Let's not forget the travel charges are free for Model S owners as well.

 

The batteries from the factory are already going to be configured for residential and commercial solar systems which removes the rain and night storage problems. Even the current Model S cars get 250 miles for the bottom of the line one, EPA certified. See that here:

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

[Jack Mayer]

When steam was the predominant "energy" for transportation they said that nothing else would take it over....

 

I'll look forward to the next "new thing", be it electric, fuel cell, etc. Just waiting for it to meet MY needs and then I'll consider buying it. Electric cars cannot meet my needs at the moment. The distance is there with ONE of them. But the cost of ownership is not reasonable. For me. Not when I can buy a smart for $13,600 NEW, and get 40+ mpg with it. And I would "guess" that the total environmental impact of that smart is less than any electric car.

[RV_]

Me too Jack!

Musk let the patents go and made his designs for power management and controls open source if you will. As a result his partners and others are designing their cars now too and by next year Tesla should have some competition. Hey the Model S of today is too expensive for me too or I would be driving one. But if I drove a $70k to $100k luxury class Merc, Beemer, Audi, or Lexus, or a supercar like a Ferrari or Lambo, or even the Porsche 911 Which the model S beats in acceleration and price, I'd be buying a Tesla first.

 

Musk is creating his own competition as he wanted because the economies of scale for his coming battery megafactory will not be realized by one brand in one factory. He needs all competition to refine the designs and more importantly, to order so many batteries that the cost is cut by 75%. And it will.

 

Jack let's remember that his megafactory is partially or mostly Solar and wind powered. If anyone has a hard source for that (not the channel that considers "I've hear it said" or "Some people are saying" as credible sources <wink>) I'd love to have it.

 

As far as the next big thing, you remember all the science fiction movies where the rocket took off, never separated or changed, then landed on the destination on its fins? And then when returning to earth did it too? Musk's Space X has been testing that form factor for a reusable rocket and is testing it out tomorrow with an early morning launch and then a return to a landing in the ocean so if it explodes no one gets hurt. Space is no different than atmospheric craft landings in that any one you can walk a way from is a good landing.

He is taking questions on Reddit about it as many celebs and public figures have done tonight at 9 pm Eastern time.

 

"Tesla Motors and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk is offering a chance for the public to interview him online.

 

On Monday evening, 9 p.m. EST, Musk will take part in the "Ask Me Anything" interview phenomenon, popular with celebrities and high-profile figures who take to Reddit's site to answer questions from its 50 million monthly visitors.

Musk asked his Twitter followers to focus questions on SpaceX's scheduled 6 a.m. Tuesday rocket launch. The California-based spaceflight company is to launch its Falcon 9 rocket carrying a capsule packed with supplies destined for the International Space Station, then attempt to land the rocket onto a platform in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean."

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102310529?__source=yahoo%7cfinance%7cheadline%7cheadline%7cstory&par=yahoo&doc=102310529

 

He has been testing his design and feels it will at least work going up. but will it land safely on its fins when it returns? Tomorrow we will know. So next big thing is tonight and tomorrow.

Test video:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZwwS4YOTbbw?width=853&height=480&iframe=true&autoplay=1&color=white&rel=0

 

What this mission tomorrow is doing:

http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/12/16/x-marks-spot-falcon-9-attempts-ocean-platform-landing

 

SpaceX says at this stage that it has a 50/50 chance of landing safely. This is the next step and is different than the preceding test as it is a separated stage that lands. That is this weeks next big thing.

[RV_]

Here are the insane, but true, some already happening, quotes from Musk and Tesla:

http://www.teslarati.com/insane-quotes-2014-elon-musk-tesla-motors-team/

[Jack Mayer]

Derek, I particularly liked his leaked email comments about Texas having the most restrictive laws in the nation for protection of the "big auto dealers".

 

I think ALL markets for cars should be opened up to be a free market. But again, the politicians have been bought....by the Lobbyists. That is not political...it is fact. I hope that Musk can succeed the way he is going and that TX and other restrictive states do not refuse to allow their cars - and cars like the Elio - into their states. It is a serious problem restricting progress.

[RV_]

Boy do I agree. Wait till you see my post about broadband with the newest maps. Astounding how obvious the buying of officials has become.

 

Musk made his patents open to all hoping for competitors to join in the change from fossil fuels to EVs for transportation.

 

In a new announcement today, Toyota is also making all of its hydrogen fuel cell patents free for competitors to use. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/01/05/toyota-fuel-cell/21299311/

 

The markets are open for innovation. But the car dealers, not so much. Personally, the dealers who just want to hold us back and only care about their own ways, deserve what they are doing as a self fulfilling prophecy. Their demise. Something I won't miss at all because I don't need them, and don't play their stupid insulting games. I don't buy new, but when I do I prefer my own mechanics to the stealerships.

[GC45]

The graphene polymer battery technology may be approaching production a lot faster than anyone realizes.

http://www.graphene-info.com/revolutionary-graphene-polymer-batteries-electric-cars claims graphene polymer battery will be in production this year.

 

"A big breakthrough was achieved on Dec. 4 when the so-called super battery for electric vehicles which charges in eight minutes due to the graphene polymer technology was released by Spanish company Graphenano and the University of Cordoba in Spain." according to this Taiwan based website: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150104000004&cid=1202

Will BIG OIL be affected?

 

Amazing! Maybe this will get us past the battery roadblock for solar energy.

[RV_]

The battery road block is being resolved for solar already. Musk is building the megafactory as we speak. This one lithium ion battery plant, when complete, will produce more batteries that all the world's battery plants combined produce today. His company Tesla will need far more batteries than currently produced not to mention the other car manufacturers. But Musk also started Solar City and is on their board since they went public. He has already gone on record that rather than just build emergency systems to power your house with your Model S or later models, which they can do, his megafactory will also be producing battery packs designed specifically to carry solar residential through cloudy periods and night. The plant is located next to the largest Lithium mine, in Nevada, in this region.

 

The energy companies are running scared as much as the car dealers are up in arms and trying to prevent Musk from selling his cars direct to the public. The energy companies and the Automobile Dealer's associations are passing laws as fast as they can to stop free or almost free energy, and eliminating car dealers from being able to be the only ones that can sell EVs, and then, as they have done already, squash them.

 

The why is simple to anyone with a basic understanding of the ease of charging EVs with solar and battery power. You see an EV has nothing to tune up. Tesla has already done their own recalls via the Internet modifying the cars without them having to be brought in. But once folks realize that EVs have almost no moving parts compared to an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine,) they get the idea. See, in an EV motor, there is only one moving part, the armature. In an ICE there are hundreds of moving parts bathed in oils and building up carbon and other sludge byproducts of burning fossil fuels. As well they have all kinds of pulleys and belts internally and externally as well as cooling systems to keep the engine temps down.

 

In other words, without going on through all of the things EVs don't have, there is no need for a dealer. Regular wear items like tires, wiper blades and brakes can be serviced at any qualified mechanic's shop. Dealers not needed. No smoke and mirrors sales guy saying he is fighting for you and going back and forth for an hour or more pretending they are going to give a deal. And trading your car at smoke and mirror deals. All gone in a decade or two. Just like fossil fuels. Just like powerlines everywhere. All we will need are Internet fiber, but wait . . . Musk is already planning to use his rocket company, Space X, to launch a constellation of LEO satellites to provide GB speed Internet to the whole world at a fraction of what cable or Cell companies would provide it.

 

YES FELLOW RVrs! YOU WILL BE ABLE TO STREAM ALL YOU WANT, MAKE INTERNET CALLS ALL YOU WANT, AND NEVER NEED TO USE WIFI EXCEPT IN YOUR RV's PRIVATE NETWORK.

 

The cable companies will try to regulate them out of the US. The United Launch Alliance (ULA) after spending millions inside the beltway lobbying against SpaceX getting any contracts Musk prevailed. The funny thing is after they did get a paltry decision, the Russians pointed out that the US ULA Comprised of primarily Lockheed and Boeing do not make their own rocket engines, they had been buying them from the Russians! New ones! Only SpaceX makes an all American Rocket Engine! The ULA assured everyone that they bought a two year supply of engines so the Russian boycott won't make any difference. So what happens in two years?

 

Musk will have the solution to the energy and pollution problems that he does not already have in two years. Of course the defense will be that some folks will lose their jobs, the economy will dive and the jobs will dry up. What jobs? The ones they off shored? What economy declines their own? Watch the folks who cry less regulation start crying for regulations. lots more, that prevent SpaceX and Tesla and Solar City from, gasp, making life better and creating bigger industries to replace the outgoing ones. And outgo they will. Just like steam power. Just like the telegraph. Just like the Wax cylinder music recordings and the 78s and LPs of vinyl gave way to tapes and then CDs and now CDs are not being sold much as downloads have replaced them.

 

The idea is that the megafactory will by economies of scale reduce the price of his cars and others by lowering the price of the battery packs that run both home solar and battery systems, and vehicles.

 

Except in states like Arizona that is passing laws to actually penalize solar home owners. They have a good PR machine and lobbyists making the claim that owning solar systems is harmful. Germany had issues too when they started out and now they are almost the most renewable energy country in the world. And they have less solar radiation by far than our southern states whether in the East central or West.

 

Texas car dealers, along with several other states have managed to pass laws preventing sales direct to their citizens citing fears that their manufacturers will compete with them. Instead of passing laws that prevent only their manufacturers from competing with them, and allowing the EVs to sell direct only, they are afraid that EVs will replace them too. In a free country, we the people can choose which car we want to drive, EV or gas/diesel.

 

You can't hold back progress once the genie has been let out of the bottle. EVs and Hydrogen fuel cells are the future. The air heads that shout that since hydrogen is made from NG and propane it is still a polluter, no longer can hide the advances of electrolysis and solar production. They talk pseudo science and claim that would be a perpetual motion machine and cannot work. But we have already lived on solar all these millennia. Plants convert it to food. And the fossil fuels came from them. Using the sun for energy is just tapping what has already been provided us. Some would say God given.

[GC45]

The battery road block is being resolved for solar already. Musk is building the megafactory as we speak. This one lithium ion battery plant, when complete, will produce more batteries that all the world's battery plants combined produce today. His company Tesla will need far more batteries than currently produced not to mention the other car manufacturers. But Musk also started Solar City and is on their board since they went public. He has already gone on record that rather than just build emergency systems to power your house with your Model S or later models, which they can do, his megafactory will also be producing battery packs designed specifically to carry solar residential through cloudy periods and night. The plant is located next to the largest Lithium mine, in Nevada, in this region.

 

The energy companies are running scared as much as the car dealers are up in arms and trying to prevent Musk from selling his cars direct to the public. The energy companies and the Automobile Dealer's associations are passing laws as fast as they can to stop free or almost free energy, and eliminating car dealers from being able to be the only ones that can sell EVs, and then, as they have done already, squash them.

 

The why is simple to anyone with a basic understanding of the ease of charging EVs with solar and battery power. You see an EV has nothing to tune up. Tesla has already done their own recalls via the Internet modifying the cars without them having to be brought in. But once folks realize that EVs have almost no moving parts compared to an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine,) they get the idea. See, in an EV motor, there is only one moving part, the armature. In an ICE there are hundreds of moving parts bathed in oils and building up carbon and other sludge byproducts of burning fossil fuels. As well they have all kinds of pulleys and belts internally and externally as well as cooling systems to keep the engine temps down.

 

In other words, without going on through all of the things EVs don't have, there is no need for a dealer. Regular wear items like tires, wiper blades and brakes can be serviced at any qualified mechanic's shop. Dealers not needed. No smoke and mirrors sales guy saying he is fighting for you and going back and forth for an hour or more pretending they are going to give a deal. And trading your car at smoke and mirror deals. All gone in a decade or two. Just like fossil fuels. Just like powerlines everywhere. All we will need are Internet fiber, but wait . . . Musk is already planning to use his rocket company, Space X, to launch a constellation of LEO satellites to provide GB speed Internet to the whole world at a fraction of what cable or Cell companies would provide it.

 

YES FELLOW RVrs! YOU WILL BE ABLE TO STREAM ALL YOU WANT, MAKE INTERNET CALLS ALL YOU WANT, AND NEVER NEED TO USE WIFI EXCEPT IN YOUR RV's PRIVATE NETWORK.

 

The cable companies will try to regulate them out of the US. The United Launch Alliance (ULA) after spending millions inside the beltway lobbying against SpaceX getting any contracts Musk prevailed. The funny thing is after they did get a paltry decision, the Russians pointed out that the US ULA Comprised of primarily Lockheed and Boeing do not make their own rocket engines, they had been buying them from the Russians! New ones! Only SpaceX makes an all American Rocket Engine! The ULA assured everyone that they bought a two year supply of engines so the Russian boycott won't make any difference. So what happens in two years?

 

Musk will have the solution to the energy and pollution problems that he does not already have in two years. Of course the defense will be that some folks will lose their jobs, the economy will dive and the jobs will dry up. What jobs? The ones they off shored? What economy declines their own? Watch the folks who cry less regulation start crying for regulations. lots more, that prevent SpaceX and Tesla and Solar City from, gasp, making life better and creating bigger industries to replace the outgoing ones. And outgo they will. Just like steam power. Just like the telegraph. Just like the Wax cylinder music recordings and the 78s and LPs of vinyl gave way to tapes and then CDs and now CDs are not being sold much as downloads have replaced them.

 

The idea is that the megafactory will by economies of scale reduce the price of his cars and others by lowering the price of the battery packs that run both home solar and battery systems, and vehicles.

 

Except in states like Arizona that is passing laws to actually penalize solar home owners. They have a good PR machine and lobbyists making the claim that owning solar systems is harmful. Germany had issues too when they started out and now they are almost the most renewable energy country in the world. And they have less solar radiation by far than our southern states whether in the East central or West.

 

Texas car dealers, along with several other states have managed to pass laws preventing sales direct to their citizens citing fears that their manufacturers will compete with them. Instead of passing laws that prevent only their manufacturers from competing with them, and allowing the EVs to sell direct only, they are afraid that EVs will replace them too. In a free country, we the people can choose which car we want to drive, EV or gas/diesel.

 

You can't hold back progress once the genie has been let out of the bottle. EVs and Hydrogen fuel cells are the future. The air heads that shout that since hydrogen is made from NG and propane it is still a polluter, no longer can hide the advances of electrolysis and solar production. They talk pseudo science and claim that would be a perpetual motion machine and cannot work. But we have already lived on solar all these millennia. Plants convert it to food. And the fossil fuels came from them. Using the sun for energy is just tapping what has already been provided us. Some would say God given.

Very well thought out.

Batteries have been, and continue to be a roadblock, not just for solar but for many of the technologies which we have seen appear in recent years. That said, it seems likely that there will be a breakthrough in battery technology, if it hasn't already occurred. There is Is plenty of research being done, and it's only a matter of time before commercialization of one or another of these new approaches. Can't be too soon.

[Jack Mayer]

The Musk "stuff" is very interesting. If you actually investigate it more than at a cursory level you will discover the synergy between the various things that he is doing, and the GREAT DISRUPTION in current markets. Like all disruptive technology there is resistance. I hope he overcomes it.

 

While his current cars are not available for "me" - because of cost - they actually would work for me. The range and performance is there. And improving rapidly - but even at present levels I would be fine using his car.

 

His battery technology is pretty advanced and with economies of scale that are easily achievable with the new factory - assuming it does what they say it will - use of stored energy for fixed dwellings is viable, and totally complements solar. You will actually be able to be self sustaining in many circumstances. And at a reasonable cost. It is certainly intriguing.

 

It is interesting to watch the car companies and electric production companies resist this type of change. Well "interesting" should be in quotes. On the car front, Elio is experiencing a similar reaction. It is a viable plan and the technology is there. But the success of Elio is up in the air....I still only give it 50/50 to actually acheive production. And less than that for market viability. Too much resistance by the car companies/dealers. They are doing everything possible to buy the death of Elio.

[RV_]

Yes I agree on Elio Jack, and on all your other points. But since Elio is here locally, I have an advantage in checking on them, and at the same time may just have bought a $100.00 T-shirt which if they fail will be worth money someday for my grandkids at worst.

 

Hey I can afford to lose a hundred bucks once.

 

Insofar as Musk, you have the interest Jack. Others believe the hype of the resistance to change. And lots of lobby money is being spent to try to stop him. Funny thing though. If these objectors spent half the time moving forward that they spend resisting, and put those millions they are spending to protect their status quo into R&D, they would be right on Musk's tail. In fact, by now, they should have passed him by. What is slowing it down is their resistance and all the while Musk just keeps executing beyond expectations in products and innovation, and does not spend R&D time and dollars fighting them.

 

I find the most amazing thing is that he has spent not one penny on advertising. The only ones out there were put on YouTube by Tesla fans who own the cars. He is not even having to spend money on advertising yet, and he gave all his patents free to all comers last year! The next three years are going to be amazing.

 

BTW, I still run into folks who have no idea there is a working electric car on the market. And of those who do, they ignore the fact that the Tesla is a luxury car, not just and electric vehicle (EV) and is priced right up there with the ICE luxury cars from Benz/Lexus/Audi/BMW. And that is is priced way below many of the performance cars like the Lambo's, Ferraris, and even higher than the Porsches that they beat in most categories of speed and performance, with a few exceptions. And they just built a two engine high range and high performance one that any exotic super car class mark for millions will have difficulty beating. And that expensive Tesla is about 1/7th of their cost!

 

Not one penny in advertising.