Progress on our Peterbilt

[GoldRush]

Here is the money shot: http://vid293.photobucket.com/albums/mm58/crzyctr/20151003_110058_zpst3g5rwfv.mp4

 

That is insane! How does that ever leave the prototyping stage of development into production?

[Broncohauler]

Sometimes are best ideas and intentions just don't work out.

And when that happens you can keep throwing money at it or adapting to attempt to make it work or throw in the towel and do like most all others are doing.

 

That said I think you're attempting to make this work with both the semi and your pick up truck.

Maybe would be better to put a standard pin box back on the trailer to work with your pick up and if you haven't already go with the trailer saver or ET on the Peterbilt.

 

Very big expense I understand but do you really need the air ride when using the F4 50?

[CrazyCooter]

Sometimes are best ideas and intentions just don't work out.

And when that happens you can keep throwing money at it or adapting to attempt to make it work or throw in the towel and do like most all others are doing.

That said I think you're attempting to make this work with both the semi and your pick up truck.

Maybe would be better to put a standard pin box back on the trailer to work with your pick up and if you haven't already go with the trailer saver or ET on the Peterbilt.

Very big expense I understand but do you really need the air ride when using the F4 50?

The air ride hitch was already in the works for my pickup as the ride on the concrete highways was horrible. I have not ridden in the 5er, but I suspect the ride behind the Pete is better since it has larger airbags that run at lower pressures and the hitch mounted to the rear of the axle.

 

I never have been one to follow the popular kids just because. I have the skills to usually make things work better. In this case I was lazy in trusting that Lippert had done all the legwork for us.

 

The expense is only one equation to this. I figured both trucks would be covered this way and if I swap out this cheesy Flexair head for the standard we should be good. We'll see how it goes.....this has to be a defect in the design or execution.

[CrazyCooter]

That is insane! How does that ever leave the prototyping stage of development into production?

Hard to understand huh?

[CrazyCooter]

Sounds love you will take a hit to swap it out. You could always weld 4 small legs on the hitch to keel it from tilting. Seen it done on Comercial rigs that haul dump trailers.

If it's defective, it shouldn't cost me anything but my time to swap it out IF the company stands behind the product.

 

I'm not going to modify the defective hitch I just bought, to lock out the function. This thing has been a pos from the beginning and needs to be returned so they can scrap it.

[Broncohauler]

The air ride hitch was already in the works for my pickup as the ride on the concrete highways was horrible. I have not ridden in the 5er, but I suspect the ride behind the Pete is better since it has larger airbags that run at lower pressures and the hitch mounted to the rear of the axle.

 

I never have been one to follow the popular kids just because. I have the skills to usually make things work better. In this case I was lazy in trusting that Lippert had done all the legwork for us.

 

The expense is only one equation to this. I figured both trucks would be covered this way and if I swap out this cheesy Flexair head for the standard we should be good. We'll see how it goes.....this has to be a defect in the design or execution.

I'm not a follower either that's one of the reasons I have the peterbilt and a early bronco. Otherwise I'd have a diesel pusher and a JK with whatever the latest and greatest bolt on parts are?

 

Not sure I understand you here though do you have an air ride hitch mounted to the peterbilt?

If not I strongly recommend getting one after that you should be fine.

[CrazyCooter]

No air hitch on the Pete and no plans for one at this time. Using the B&W platform as I need to be able to remove the hitch with ease for other uses.

 

Cant justify the cost for something I'm not sure we will be using in the future. May be going in a different direction.

Edited October 4, 2015 by CrazyCooter

[GoldRush]

Bad internet connection created optical illusion.

Edited October 4, 2015 by GoldRush

[CrazyCooter]

Without seeing this in person, is there an easy way to limit the fore/aft articulation in the B&W Companion Hitch in order to leave it parallel to the ground. I'm not even sure that would help.

 

Again, not being there makes this tough to see all of the factors involved,but it almost looks like there are too many pivots in the combination of parts.

 

Something seems very wrong in the design of the mounting base of the B&W companion hitch. I don't see how it's a good idea to have the base of that hitch rocking at all. I am having to watch this with a bad internet connection but it appears that you have 3 fulcrums on the same vertical plane. That can never be good for stability.

The B&W has worked fine for the past 4 years. It works perfectly with the rigid and Morryde pinboxes. It has to rock or it will tear everything up with elevation changes of truck/trailer. Here is an in bed video I took to see how much things flexed with the old 18K B&W base in my pickup:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95jhJ8_kd_c

 

The problem with the current setup is with the sloppy lower jaw of the Trailair Flexair. There is either too much clearance between the pivot bolt and the lower jaw, so the rubber block isn't being pre-loaded with any squish.

 

Here is yet another defect and part of the issue....after looking at the wear pattern on my new hitch:

 

 

I took another look at the lower jaw...not very flat it it? It's only contacting on a 5-6" circle and eating the powdercoating off. Something I have not seen on my 4 year old hitch head. http://vid293.photobucket.com/albums/mm58/crzyctr/20151004_124608_zpsfiyxh8zo.mp4

Edited October 4, 2015 by CrazyCooter

[ray.service]

That is insane! How does that ever leave the prototyping stage of development into production?

You're joking right. You really think they tested this on a multitude of vehicle combinations.... or tested it at all?

[GoldRush]

See Above

Edited October 4, 2015 by GoldRush

[CrazyCooter]

I think stand alone you're fine. The extra pivot points on the trailer are exacerbating the issue. I've never seen the B&W in person so I'm not sure how its designed but I'm surprised it rocks at the base.

Every 5th hitch I have seen rocks at the base front/rear and this one rock side/side a few degrees too. All the commercial hitches I have seen rock front/back too.

[GoldRush]

Ray,

 

I clearly don't think they tested this with every combination, lol!

[GoldRush]

Tony,

 

I think the jerky video I was watching created an optical illusion that the base of the hitch was pivoting in two locations. With a good internet speed I can see that what I thought I was seeing was incorrect.

[CrazyCooter]

It looks pretty funky even on a large monitor! Lots going on there......

 

Not looking forward to arguing this with people who won't want to hear it......

Edited October 4, 2015 by CrazyCooter

[Ronbo]

How far are you from West Sacra,ento? I need someplace to goof off this winter

[CrazyCooter]

How far are you from West Sacra,ento? I need someplace to goof off this winter

About 170-180 miles North of of you.

[bstark]

Well that video sorta drove a stake through the heart of that pinbox!

 

That's too bad but perfectly predictable given Lippert's design and quality.

 

I knew Dale Fenton the original owner and designer of the Trailair pinbox first and second iteration and remember well a conversation we had when he showed my his new Triglyde before it was shipping to retailers. His original design used a parallelogram set of links with cushion blocks dampening fore and aft I gave that thing a good looking over and told him he should not attempt to cushion fore and aft shocks using, at that time the pin-weight of the trailer to center the plate at the bottom of an arc. The shear forces expected to be handled by composite blocks would amount to more than what a MoreRyde Suspension was handling with their far larger shear blocks.

 

Lippert has dumbed it down to just another pivot point with a rubber pad thinner than the gap to give it some allowed rocker motion. Dale's original design would not result in the tipping forward of your trucks hitch head to match the tipping of the pin plate. That's giving you a lot of fore and aft stuff going on.

 

My opinion was asked for due to me buying the last copy of Gene McCall's AirGlyder made and seconded to Dale to pay for some work he had done for Gene in the past. I loved that hitch! Four air bags with shock dampening of both vertical and fore and aft movement. As a general machinist the first thing I did to that hitch was bore out the pivot blocks and installed bronze bushes and zerks to them.

 

Now here's the thing with those pinboxes: they didn't have any zerk fitting for lubing the bronze bushes so I removed the lower jaw of mine and drilled and tapped from the rear of the upper box into the tube for the huge pivot shaft and installed a zerk, then after re-assembly used my air-luber to fill that cavity until the lube showed at the shaft ends.

 

Even Dale's Trailair suspension system had steel on steel pivot points and after a year of use those things were squawking like all get-out from being dry.

 

I don't know what the design guys are drinking who come up with these ideas of handling heavy weights with steel on steel pivot points.

 

You are about to deal with Lippert and their well known response of "it's functioning within it's design parameters" which translated means: "it ain't worth crap, which is the way we designed it".

 

I believe, from watching your vid, under certain trailer loading conditions and taking your rig over a few of those gully wash whoop-de-doos in Az. you might experience contact of the top of the pinbox to underside of front cap. Another inch of daylight there would be ideal.

 

A thought; if your lower jaw main frame is virtually identical to that of an older design non slipper-plate Trailair; would removal of that stupid plate's mounting and cushioning stuff and welding it directly to the lower jaw without all that other junk hanging under there between it and the jaw proper serve to give you what you need in both reduction of fore/aft along with additional lowering of your trailer's nose height? That would duplicate the older Trailair design that worked well for most of us.

 

I hate it when some silly basic design flaw screws with a perfectly good dream.

Edited October 5, 2015 by bstark

[noteven]

When I play the video I can only see a big music note but I can hear the sound of some clunking - and the dog barking a warning about that hookup ...

[bmzero]

That is insane! How does that ever leave the prototyping stage of development into production?

 

For what it's worth, that design would work well on a hitch that did not have a fore/aft pivot in it and relied on the pin box for that movement. I doubt that was the intent, but maybe there were different designs for different hitch setups. Just a thought.

[BoonHauler]

When I play the video I can only see a big music note but I can hear the sound of some clunking - and the dog barking a warning about that hookup ...

 

X2 ...... audio only, no video

[CrazyCooter]

X2 ...... audio only, no video

You guys probably need an update for Quicktime. The video format is mp4.

 

Have a call in to Lippert tech support, no answer on the phone but left a message. Have not received a call back....surprise there huh?

[noteven]

Hi CrazyCooter - I looked back through the posts - I can view the video of you rocking the upper 5th wheel plate by hand. That design is a bit of someone outsmarting themselves adding motion (a gimmick) to a coupling that is already provided by the truck's 5th wheel trunnion pin. It is not going to help with chucking (as you know) as it slams to a stop steel on steel when it runs out of travel... around our place we and the welder would fix that in about 10 minutes plus paint dry time - but it not my truck...

 

If the seller of that mis-design gets into stand off mode with you won't resolve it and you feel like putting your energy into a good fly fishing trip rather than a squabble over a trailer hitch -

 

if you could safely fashion a solid wedging setup that would stop that motion and test drive you could weld it solid afterwards if the rest of the Trail air meets your expectations.

 

The forces on your trailer's frame are going to be less than the hammer action it is receiving now if it is solid.

[CrazyCooter]

Hi CrazyCooter - I looked back through the posts - I can view the video of you rocking the upper 5th wheel plate by hand. That design is a bit of someone outsmarting themselves adding motion (a gimmick) to a coupling that is already provided by the truck's 5th wheel trunnion pin. It is not going to help with chucking (as you know) as it slams to a stop steel on steel when it runs out of travel... around our place we and the welder would fix that in about 10 minutes plus paint dry time - but it not my truck...

 

If the seller of that mis-design gets into stand off mode with you won't resolve it and you feel like putting your energy into a good fly fishing trip rather than a squabble over a trailer hitch -

 

if you could safely fashion a solid wedging setup that would stop that motion and test drive you could weld it solid afterwards if the rest of the Trail air meets your expectations.

 

The forces on your trailer's frame are going to be less than the hammer action it is receiving now if it is solid.

There is no steel stop on the pivot, it's on a rubber block. The fit is too loose though.

 

I hear ya about the time pushing this issue with Lippert. I feel the design will work IF it wasn't so loose. Many people are happy with their Rotaflex boxes, so why would this be any different? I have one tow with this box and I want it fixed of or a refund.....I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

The point here is that I spent money on a product and it is clearly defective..... Why would I weld or otherwise modify it to lock out it's function when I shouldn't have to? I paid for this anti chucking feature,and I want it to work! I know welding the pivot solid will fix the looseness.

 

How many others are being sold with the same problem? Pretty obvious that the welding distorted the lower jaw......what are the chances that the robots are cranking out 1000's a day just like it?

Edited October 7, 2015 by CrazyCooter

[BoonHauler]

I agree, Lippert should make this right.

 

I'm under the assumption Lippert is fully automated, this was all I could find on a quick search http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/03/prweb11624414.htm

 

I saw the first video with the head rocking back and forth, I can imagine what it looks like....