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Are You Still In?

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Ryno,

After making more than a ten bagger with Tesla since thy IPO'd in 2010, we are in the position where we could do one of those silos. But I prefer to be near a military base with Pharmacy and medical. That leaves me with Denver and more likely Colorado Springs. Boy I wish I had bought a five acre lot in Black Forest along the East side of I-25 from the main gate on up to the North gate and Woodmoor. I taught at the Academy from 1978-1981, it was expensive for then but really would have been cheap in hindsight today.

It's funny but this thread was started the year after I made a $20k and later added another $10k investment in an individual stock, Tesla, rather than my usual USAA funds and real properties. The title, "Are You Still In," seems especially apropo to me because I am still in with Tesla

However, there may be some underground or Earth Sheltered homes and I would definitely consider them. I will post whatever we get.

Edited by RV_

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Has anyone bought bitcoins? My ophthalmologist/eye surgeon who did my cataract surgeries tried to talk me into buying them before it went above $1200. They have since gone through the roof. I am trying to comprehend the mechanics of block chain security and how easy/difficult they would be to use. We all know that no nation needs to destroy people in a nuclear war, they only need to explode about three upper atmosphere clean bombs designed to maximize the EMP or ElectroMagentic Pulse. These would destroy all electronic circuits not shielded by hundreds of feet of earth and/or concrete and EMP shielding. If you are unfamiliar with it read this: http://www.onesecondafter.com/

So failing the apocalypse, did anyone here get in on the ground floor and what are your thoughts?

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The only use for them that I can see is to buy and sell. There are some merchants that take them, not very many. The value is only in what people are willing to pay for it. 

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It is said not to buy that which one does not understand.  And I don't understand it.
And by now the speculators have robbed any intrinsic value that it may have had.

Still in? Yes, my goodness!

As for an EMP pulse, mother nature can do that.  Google: carrington event 1859 solar storm
And for this reason I always get paper statements.

Edited by Rich&Sylvia
additional comment

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I have never been out, but am thinking of going really conservative soon as I would think that we are in for a major correction soon.  Plus if something goes down with Trump tied with Russia.  I would think that the sh@t will really hit the fan.  And it took me years to get back what was lost in the last major correction. What do you think?

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Ryno,

I think that the folks who liquidate their investments in favor of cash in a bank may be surprised to know that our government and the FDIC have decided that we would use bail ins instead of bailouts for any future recessions/depressions. Look up bail ins. As far as a correction goes, I don't see it coming this coming year at least until the fall of 2018. And we will see indicators before hand that others may look back on in hindsight thinking they should have seen it coming.

Rich,

We know mother nature has EMP, you don't have to go that far back in history, just talk to any Ham Radio Operator who shoots skip since 1970. We are talking about tuned nuclear devices to do maximum damage to electronics. Don't forget they would affect satellites on the side of the world that the detonations took place in. You really should read the book. Aside from it being a great what if read, it is accurate to boot. That is the scary part.

Rich I don't understand it either but some of the smartest folks I know are in it. But it is always true that to get the big ones you need to understand it like I did Tesla since 2003 and finally they went public in 2010 after two years earlier putting their Roadsters on the road sold out, two years and the year before they IPO'd.

Duke,

Think PayPal.

Ronbo,

" The value is only in what people are willing to pay for it.  " Isn't that the same as any publicly traded stock? ;) Or gold? Or currencies?

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6 hours ago, RV_ said:

Ryno,

I think that the folks who liquidate their investments in favor of cash in a bank may be surprised to know that our government and the FDIC have decided that we would use bail ins instead of bailouts for any future recessions/depressions. Look up bail ins. As far as a correction goes, I don't see it coming this coming year at least until the fall of 2018. And we will see indicators before hand that others may look back on in hindsight thinking they should have seen it coming.

Rich,

We know mother nature has EMP, you don't have to go that far back in history, just talk to any Ham Radio Operator who shoots skip since 1970. We are talking about tuned nuclear devices to do maximum damage to electronics. Don't forget they would affect satellites on the side of the world that the detonations took place in. You really should read the book. Aside from it being a great what if read, it is accurate to boot. That is the scary part.

Rich I don't understand it either but some of the smartest folks I know are in it. But it is always true that to get the big ones you need to understand it like I did Tesla since 2003 and finally they went public in 2010 after two years earlier putting their Roadsters on the road sold out, two years and the year before they IPO'd.

Duke,

Think PayPal.

Ronbo,

" The value is only in what people are willing to pay for it.  " Isn't that the same as any publicly traded stock? ;) Or gold? Or currencies?

Really, fall of 2018?  What do you think are good indicators?  Sorry still learning about all of this.  I was hit hard on BLACK Friday and BLACK Monday.  It took years to re-coupe my losses.   I would hate to jump off the wave early, but those two days bring back bad memories.

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RV: Sorry but Paypal isn't even close to Tulip Mania. You would have been better off buying 3m than Paypal. But Bitcoin is very much similar to  the Tulip Mania of the 1600's. While one can not say that one is exactly like the other, there are some things that are the same. 1. Wild speculation especially the last year. 2. No lasting value. ie What are it's asset? 3. Does anyone understand how a Bitcoin works? 

Now, Bitcoin could be similar to Paypal in that it is a new way to pay for things although I surely do not plan to use it. But my point is, $20,000 or so for a company that has no assets and was worth $5000 just  3 months ago? Rampant speculation, raise your ugly head. Although not nearly the strain on the market as the housing boom and bust days 10 years ago, do you not see the similarity with back than? When the average investor starts looking at this, it is time to worry. 

For you speculators, now is a time to buy as it has dropped over 2,000 in the last 2 days. When you buy your Castle, airplane, yacht, etc take me for a ride, and you can flaunt it all over me. 

 

 

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Duke,

I caught the reference to the tulip bubble of 1637. The SEC stepped in today and stopped trading on one of the bitcoin like coin companies because it was rising out of control:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=coin+trading+stoppe+by+SEC&pc=MOZI&form=MOZTSB

ryno,

Sorry, I had just finished reading a treatise answering a prediction of imminent bubble bursting and should have explained that. The author said that he doubted anything would turn before later in 2018. And now I can't find it again. We Tesla longs get a lot of razzing about Tulip Mania and very conceivable doom and gloom is thrown out with no real basis in anything except that a segment of the population despise the good fortune of others, and those others enjoying it. So folks try to rain on it. They're called limited resource thinkers, and they will never get out of their own way. I wrote about it and how it relates directly to the RV lifestyle here: http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore/rvroadiervfulltimingwhatisitreallylike/id66.html

So sorry I didn't validate that others are always dooming and glooming around anyone who did the work to follow a company closely for years so we are ready to buy when it IPOs.

So read the piece on my website and don't take anything I say as advice. I do like discussin not cussin, and I learn.

I'm not at risk because depite it being big money to some, it is still the $25-30 k I could afford to lose despite it being worth ten times that now. See, early on, when Tesla went over $100, and remember I bought on IPO at between $17 and $22.50. So I could sell 20% of my shares and take a 20% profit and still have most of my shares to ride and see what happens to it.

So I've already made much better than a measly 6% on selling a piece, and took back my entire investment to boot.

So lots of folks would be about this investment, like they erroneously reacted to selling my 911 Targa. I learned then, and never tried to live up to or down to the expectations of others. And the bullies who are arrogant and use insults on a grade school level are boring. Musk is boring too, but he is making money at it.

;)

 

Edited by RV_

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Aside from one-off stocks such as Amazon, Apple, Google etc, I think the question now is about the market in general.  Many folks don't play individual stocks and are focused on the broad market - which as we know is at all time highs.  

The lurking question is, should we try to time the market and take some money off the table?

The answer, I think, is in Asset Allocation and diversification.  

 

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Rich, what is your risk level?  That is the real question.   I'm moving some  into cash this year.   Usually we reinvest dividends, etc, but instead will put them into cash so that we can make some purchases in the next couple of years with profits from this year.   May miss out on the 'high', but would rather miss the top than wait and be selling after the bubble bursts.

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Rich,

Market timing is an elusive goal. Even with Tesla, which I have ridden for 7 years like bucking bronco, does not always go down enough, or back up fast enough for me to sell then buy back when it dips again.

I can only recommend being very careful about banks and bail-ins. Check your bank's policies on hard times like 2008/9. The securities regulations that kept the market safe from the same speculation by large banks are being repealed now and it is just a matter of time. Since scientists worldwide agree on what needs to be done for climate, the rest of the world is doing it. London for example will ban all Internal combustion vehicles within 5 years and BEVs are fine there. India and China have already committed to 100% bans within 20-30 years. However it appears that rather than push them back or deny good science, and despite most Americans not understanding the change to any company that makes only ICE engines starting now, well they are going to really suffer. IMHO oil is a dead man walking, along with natural gas which also produces CO2 and CO as any carbon based fuel will do. There is no such thing as clean burning carbon fuels, only reduced compared to smoggier burning versions with visible smoke.

Bearing that in mind, I just called USAA and he suggested that Cash, Money Market savings, and straight savings accounts are the only things that will preserve the capital unless the world gets nuked and EMP sends us back to the early 1800s.

Read the book "One Second After" for a likely, but frightening story showing how that would actually happen. Scary. The folks who are preppers, and have a boogie bag with weapons and ammo and a fall back place in the boonies for if the proverbial excrement hits the rotating surfaces are welcome to that as a hobby. But the more I thought about hard currencies, the more I realized that once you spend a piece of gold/silver, everyone in your region will know you likely have more. Banks paying a half percent and up to .80 percent for safe harbor make it less attractive than just burying actual cash in the yard, or, like my Grandfather in Law did, fill up all the hollow core doors in the house with paper currency.

Takes today's article from Seeking Alpha by a very astute contributor there:

Summary

Peabody Energy, key supporter of Trump administration, attempts to force coal use to continue.

Huge changes towards digital flexible power delivery (no inflexible base load coal, nuclear): cheaper and in tune with digital transformation across all industries.

Peabody continues to promote “clean” coal, with little evidence that it is clean or provides reliable and cheap power.

Investors who have made money from investing in coal but don't follow closely the energy space might be interested in the recent steady share price increases for Peabody Energy (NYSE:BTU). There have been a number of positive articles in Seeking Alpha, and analyst coverage involves many buy recommendations for BTU. However, there are signs of trouble ahead, not the least from BHP (BHP), another huge mining company that sells a lot of coal. It plans to withdraw from the World Coal Association, and it is reviewing its membership of the Minerals Council of Australia and the US Chamber of Commerce over their stance toward climate change. This is a huge statement (see the detail) about the lobbying stance of these organisations and must impact Peabody Energy as the chief lobbying company.

Here, I argue that all is not what it seems, and the positive reports about BTU are based on a rosy view that ignores hard reality for not only Peabody Energy but the whole coal industry.

Briian65 recently commented on one of my earlier articles Fun And Games At Peabody Energy: What Is Stabilizing The Share Price? (June of this year) on Peabody Energy. He made the point that the BTU share price has risen from $23.50 in June to $36.40 today. I don't do day-trading (except for some fun with cryptocurrencies!), and Briian65 has a valid short-term perspective. However, I make the point that examination of Peabody Energy's performance since exit from bankruptcy is pretty much in line with the S&P 500 and VanEck Vectors Coal ETF (NYSEARCA:KOL). True, it is better than other coal companies Cloud Peak Energy (NYSE:CLD) and Westmoreland Resource Partners (WMLP), but the confronting thing for coal investors is a comparison with solar outperformer First Solar (FSLR) which has more than doubled since BTU emerged from bankruptcy, and even somewhat troubled SunPower (SPWR) is up more than 150%."

The rest of the article is much more in depth with charts and more data to think about here:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4133038-peabody-energy-rising-coal-industry-decline-going?uprof=82&isDirectRoadblock=false

There ain't no guarantees the old coot told me, ya just makes yer bet, and takes yer chances.

Edited by RV_

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We have the tech now to provide power and storage to any home in the event of a natural disaster like the hurricane and fire destruction we are seeing now. This assumes it is near enough to cause power and supply issues. Click here for the page on the Tesla PowerWall: https://www.tesla.com/powerwall?redirect=no&utm_medium=email&utm_source=communication&utm_campaign=NA-US-171218-December-Newsletter&utm_term=3&utm_content=L&mkt_id=2521&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWmpWbU1XSmpaRGxrWWpZMSIsInQiOiJcLzJYMElBa01mMGUwdlE5cWVcL0F6UndRTGU3Mm1TUzVCSUJXdUduWVFPZVZ1UEZvQ2U3TVwvSG1Nczk1ZW13azd3R3dQeEE4VWloV0ZJVHRtUGswTmFuY3h0OHRtdG5wQXk0ajlSZlpWY0dIVXo0c0gzQVdwS2haaE4zVDVxSzU5ZWkxXC9oM2sxQlhkejFFd0tYXC9cL1Vla2c9PSJ9

I keep hearing that folks won't see a return on investment on solar/BEV/battery investments, when that is not the concept at all. When you find yourself with no outside power or water or gasoline available for long periods of time, there investment ROI becomes priceless. I have the discretionary funds needed for our next home to be connected but only as a last resort. I would like to have fully independent power and storage via solar and passive systems.  I am looking in Colorado for the next week to see what we can fins that is close enough to civilization to make shopping and social/cultural interactions easy. Yet be self sustaining with woods nearby or abutting it so that we could forage/hunt food as well as have a water supply. Let's remember that a self contained solar battery system can power a well pump, septic pump, as well as charge an all electric car.

A garden, some pressure cooker and mason jars, a few deer and or other game, and a decent supply of .22 and 7mm magnum shells in addition to a few thousand rounds of .40 cal and 500 rounds of shotgun shells/slugs could put anyone completely independent of any need for outside food supplies, energy, or automobile fuel.

We are almost at a point where we will have a lot more money than we will need for our remaining years. What better investment than never worrying about power, heat, cooling, fuels or food in a national crisis. Of course with an EMP attack we would be as bad off as the rest. No worse, just the same. 

I invest a large amount annually in food and clothing, as well as fuel and no ROI is considered. Going energy independent saves day to day money, assuming I pay cash for my dwelling and energy systems and car/s, as I always do, and continue with only Internet, utilities, gas, water, electric, and garbage monthly bills. With an energy independent system the ability to shut down outside connections, or survive long periods with no outside utilities or water become real. In that way I am more like a prepper, as I value energy and carbon fuel independence, in much the same way as they do their investment on defensive weapons and tight security. 

I do not need a mansion, nor a yacht or any boat, certainly no private aircraft, or any other thing the very rich value as conspicuous consumption. So my discretionary funds will provide that independence I really want. Then my investment is secure, and no cash to worry about or stock market crashes.

Unlike the political narratives this website, Clean Technika, provides today's actual and factual state of renewables for both large scale and personal power and energy. If free energy after installation is just too left for some then please skip it. If you want to know what is going on in energy read it. https://cleantechnica.com/  Renewables are not only about clean environments, but also about making/saving money in emerging vertical markets. Read the renewables page there and find what has already been built and now under construction. I am a techie, politics, other than voting as my citizen duty, has no place in my daily life.

I now have a very nice Scamp 2014 19' fifth wheel with the wood interior and bathroom, stove, microwave, septic and fresh water tanks, fantastic fan and A/C from Arizona which was used only three or four times. I have not decided if we are going to keep it yet. 

I foresee a lot of folks coming to some of the same conclusions. For us it is not either/or in having energy independence and having our retirement money coming in. So I do understand the folks that look at it as only a utility money saver. It is but for RVrs it may be easier to comprehend than others. Doing what I want to do, and where is the same thing as an RV boon-docking with solar and a generator. I want my home to have power when there are regional or local blackouts. With the right sized system I can supply all my BEV car electrical power as well as the house's septic, water, A/C, heat, cooking and lighting needs. I want my house to be even more self-contained than an RV which can't hold the Solar system or septic fields and well a house can. I just need a well and a wastewater treatment plant. The house we inherited and just sold had a 3kw older grid connected solar and we had to drill a new well and service the wastewater treatment plant so these things, like our wastewater holding tank and macerator pump to our odor free oxidation pond here, are very familiar and easy for us to do and maintain.

I strongly urge investors read the above Clean tech regularly to keep up with maturing technologies and startups that can, like Tesla, make a lot of money for those seeking to diversify from only old fossil energy only portfolios.

 

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I sold all my individual stocks and went to all mutual / ETF funds a few years ago.  Jack Bogle and Warren Buffet are my preferred authors.  

The economic rebound is due to just one major thing; the decline in oil prices.  Oil prices were a major blood-sucking tax on our economy.  With the advent of shale oil production and new drilling, oil got killed.  Our current economy is mostly due to energy costs decline.

That said, I see no immediate threat to the economy other than temporary flights of panic.  More serious events that could occur might be war or a 1917 type flu epidemic.  Or perhaps a run-away stock market?  Business is good, help wanted signs abound and the major news headlines carry sexual harassment stories.  How bad can that be?

If one's entire retirement is in stocks and bonds (without annuities, rentals, pensions, social security or other stable income sources) then I would be very concerned.  Diversification into less market dependent income streams would be my personal preference.

The "survivalist"; these people don't have a firm grip on reality.  
The neighborhoods I live in and the people that I know would band together and organize very quickly.  "Cooperation" is our strength.  Loners are just that - loners.

One last thing of possible interest are the "Lazy Portfolios" : https://www.marketwatch.com/lazyportfolio

And a helpful resource for testing an analytics:  https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/

Edited by Rich&Sylvia
links added

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Not posting as often on this thread, but drop in at least monthly:)! 

I was telling the DW, that this thread is like a well 'Diversified Investment' - when it comes to opinions and thought processes of the various poster's. (And that to be clear, is a complement and salute to a well balance group of posters on this long running thread:)!). 

I also reflected with the DW, that perspectives shift (Rightly so.) as our lifecycles shift too. While still earning and preparing for retirement, the thought process and approach to investing - is usually different then after the shift into 'retirement mode' drawdown, preservation, staying ahead of inflation, and sure - still keeping some skin in the game of 'investing' too:)! 

The bulk of our investment assets are no longer in individual stocks, or mutuals that are heavy into stocks. A repeat of info sharing, is that part of getting my DW comfortable in us retiring when we did, was 'taking a substantial portion' of our total money like assets and parking them in various annuities and hybrid life insurance products. This gave her the peace of mind, to signup to us retiring. (I did push this up a few years earlier then we had first planned, due to her having some pretty significant back issues. Wanted to get us out and going earlier - while she was still able to get up and about. Luckily, a corrective surgery has really helped her quite a bit - so we're really not as hindered by her back now:)!). We did retain our real estate holdings, and I did keep a small percentage of our $$ assets in our TD Ameritrade account. I semi actively invest these, and use the profits for funding improvements to our coach, and subsidizing our yearly travels. On the bulk of our funds with our Financial Planner, I did direct him to due similar as Barb is doing. We removed 50% of our dividends from being 'reinvested', and have them building up for future opportunities to leverage in ahead. (While I do not see a near term major devastation drop ahead, I do expect some pullback/mini corrections in 2018. And who knows what might happen in current world, and USA, to cause a possible more dramatic pull back... Ask me in 2020, and I'll tell you what you should have done... 

Ramblings over for now, and best to you all. Really appreciate those of you who actively share your perspectives.... It really is a useful thread. (Shared a link with a buddy of mine who is nearing retirement, as a reference of what I called 'good reading'!). 

Best to all,

Smitty

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Rich,

I agree completely on making sure retirement is taken care of first. We do have a steady income aside from investments. That being our SS which (is better than I thought when I looked in 2010,) and our military retirement/medical, then we can talk about stocks and funds we hold. I would risk nothing I could not afford to lose either way.

I agree Smitty, a diversity of opinion I learn from, more than others may be aware. Good to see you here again too. 

 

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Wow!

Tesla outsells BMW, Audi and Mercedes' flagships in their home market

There is bound to be a whole cadre of salty German executives after Tesla smokes them at their own game.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-outsells-bmw-audi-mercedes-flagships/

And these pictures of a Model 3 after a 60 mph deceleration directly into a stopped vehicle are amazing, as are the comments in the article of the first responders who never saw anyone survive that severe a wreck:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-crash-insight-60mph-collision/?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=c6e3a6c00bab4efe90be452ad1e679b1&fl=4&uid=948743011822964736&nid=244+276893704

 

Edited by RV_

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Here's the first Tesla Model 3 Race video I have seen. Remember the Model 3 is the economy car of the Tesla line not the ludicrous mode monster racing beast the others can be. They are slowly dribbling out of the factory as Musk deals with the bottlenecks and ramps it up fast. So these street racers with hot performance muscle cars they had modified to the max, spending more than the price of the Model 3, thought they had a sucker since his Tesla was the economy "cheap" version. Watch the video:

One guy was a rotten loser and insisted on betting another $600 claiming he was set up in a worse lane. The Model 3 owner didn't want to take any more of his money but there were enough witnesses so he raced him and swapped lanes, and smoked him again. He was not loud the second time.

:lol::lol:

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Biker, good response. You got me to thinking how fast are the production cars today. Some of the cars in the link below are not manufactured anymore, or were custom in all but the fact they were ordered retail.

Classic Muscle car runs. First number is 0-60, second number is quarter mile time.

1969 Plymouth 'Cuda 440 5.6 14.0
1970 Plymouth AAR 'Cuda 5.8 14.3
1969 Plymouth GTX 440 5.8 13.7
1969 Plymouth Road Runner 426 Hemi 5.1 13.5 (C&D Jan '69)

1973 Pontiac Firebird 455ci 7.3 15.0
1974 Pontiac Firebird 400ci 10.4 17.1
1975 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 400 9.8 16.8
1975 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 455 7.8 16.1
1977 Pontiac Firebird Formula 12.0 17.9
1978 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 6.5 15.3

2009 Pontiac G8 GXP 4.9 13.1 http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...pontiac-g8-gxp
2008 Pontiac G8 GT 5.0 13.5 (R&T Online)
2009 Pontiac G8 GT 5.1 13.7 (MT, Jan 09)
2005 Pontiac GTO V8 w/6 Spd 4.8 13.3 (C&D Jan '05)

This may be the fastest of the 'muscle car' era.
1970 Buick GS Stage I 455ci. 5.5 13.3 (MT Jan '70)

1972 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 7.5 15.5
1974 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 8.1 15.4
1975 Chevrolet Camaro 350 11.0 17.4
1975 Chevrolet Camaro RS 8.5 16.8

1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 LS6 5.4 13.8 (C&D Feb '70)

Only 2 Vettes were in the 13's.
1967 Chevrolet Corvette L71 5.6 13.8
1968 Chevrolet Corvette 327 7.7 15.6
1968 Chevrolet Corvette 427 6.3 14.1
1969 Chevrolet Corvette 427ci 435hp 5.3 13.8 (C&D Sep '69)
1970 Chevrolet Corvette 427 6.1 14.3
1973 Corvette 350ci L82 6.7 15.1 (C&D Dec '72)
1973 Corvette 454ci 6.4 14.6 (C&D Dec '72)
1975 Chevrolet Corvette 350 9.6 16.4
1976 Chevrolet Corvette 350 8.1 16.5
1977 Chevrolet Corvette 8.8 16.6
1979 Chevrolet Corvette L82 7.3 15.7
1980 Chevrolet Corvette L82 7.4 15.4

1968 Dodge Charger, Auto, 4.8, 13.5 (C&D Nov '67)

1967 Ford Mustang (390ci V8 w/4spd) 7.4 15.6
1971 Ford Mustang (351ci V8 w/4spd) 5.8 13.8
1973 Ford Mustang 351ci 8.9 16.3
1974 Ford Mustang II 4sp 14.2 18.8
1974 Ford Mustang II Auto 15.6 19.4
1975 Ford Mustang II (302ci V8 w/3spd) 9.6 17.5
1977 Ford Mustang II 302ci 11.3 17.7
1970 Ford Mustang Boss 302 6.5 14.9 (C&D Feb '70)
1971 Ford Mustang Boss 351 5.8 13.8

1969 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 HO 455ci 5.9 13.9

If you want to look up 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for all cars they are categorized nicely but not really up to date. They sound a bit like the EPA estimated mileage on new car stickers: true if you never stop, never accelerate and travel on level ground in a straight line under 30 mph with no A/C running.;)https://www.zeroto60times.com/

So the next time some old geezer my age talks sh*t about how fast the muscle car era cars were, just email him a link to this page.

Edited by RV_

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Interesting note. That video of the model 3 race above was altered. Originally it showed the loser after the first race talking trash and making whiny excuses about being cheated by giving the Tesla a better lane to run in. The Tesla driver tries to walk off but the loser insisted and bet another $600 and got shut down.

Bear in mind he was racing a stock Model 3 as delivered. The Model S and 3 with Ludicrous mode equipment can cut those times in half.

The real apples to apples race would be any modified for speed Internal combustion engine muscle car against a factory race/performance equipped Tesla with full Ludicrous Mode systems.

Edited by RV_

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