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New SpaceX launch: Starlink closes in on 800 internet-beaming satellite target for US service

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Excerpt:

"SpaceX launches 60 Starlink satellites after asking the US for permission to launch 30,000 second-generation units.

Elon Musk's SpaceX has launched another 60 internet-beaming satellites, bringing the company's constellation to around 480. 

The latest batch of Starlink satellites marks the eighth launch so far and follows this week's SpaceX launch of two US astronauts to the International Space Station. 

The Falcon 9 rocket, which lifted off from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station on Wednesday, was the first to carry a satellite with a deployable sun visor. The visors are designed to address astronomers' concerns over solar light reflecting from the spacecraft and impeding space observation from Earth. 

The latest launch puts SpaceX closer to the 800-satellite target it needs for moderate coverage of the US. Following SpaceX's April launch, CEO Elon Musk said it should be ready to launch a public beta as early as August.  

SpaceX in March gained approval from the US Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to deploy a million user terminals, which look like a "little UFO on a stick", according to Musk, and will be simple for consumers to set up.

 

The FCC has approved SpaceX to launch more than 12,000 Starlink satellites to provide high-speed, low-latency internet access. 

Consistent with previously announced plans, SpaceX last week applied to the FCC to launch 30,000 Gen2 System satellites, with more than 85% operating at below 400km (249 miles), "using eight total orbital altitudes ranging from 328km to 614km [204 to 382 miles]". 

SpaceX said its next-generation constellation will allow it to bring internet services to rural areas at prices previously only available to urban customers. "

The source article is here: https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-spacex-launch-starlink-closes-in-on-800-internet-beaming-satellite-target-for-us-service/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b&bhid=&mid=12864903&cid=2180787277

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1 hour ago, Technomadia said:

Exciting times for sure!

We published yesterday our reality check for how Starlink can play a role in an RVer's mobile internet setup - and timeline:

https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/satellite-internet-update-starlink-is-exciting-but-reality-check-needed-for-rvers-and-cruisers/

Thanks for posting this excellent summary of Starlink's status. Unlike so many of the "puff pieces" that have appeared in the popular press, you have taken the time to write a thorough, objective and realistic analysis of the pro's and con's.   All too many people in the RV community have spoken of Starlink as if it will be the communications panacea for RVers.  Your analysis will help to "bring them back to earth!"  

Joel (AKA docj)

Edited by docj

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Starlink is a great idea.

I got an email  today about it from one of my computer magazines.

While it could be great for the RV community there is a possible hang up that Elon Musk talked about.

The issue is the receiving antenna.

(1) As it stands now if it were available it would hvae to be installed professionally in a fixed location., Not gointg to help RVs much as it stands now.

(2)  Elon said the key will be making it affordable. Presently a receiving antenna is in the $1500 to $2000 range.

On the plus side look at what his Tesla cost when he first released it versus now.

Bottom lime is we are probably a long timed away from Starlink being affordably available for RVs.

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2 hours ago, richardbetsey said:

As it stands now if it were available it would hvae to be installed professionally in a fixed location., Not gointg to help RVs much as it stands now.

Complicating the installation is that you will need to have a large patch of open sky.  it's not at all like what we're used to with satellite where you can "thread the needle between the trees."  With a phased array antenna, it needs to be able to switch from one satellite to another as they cross the sky.   It probably will work well in the West where treed sites are less common, but east of the Mississippi, at least half the places we camp at would probably have too many trees.

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6 hours ago, Technomadia said:

Exciting times for sure!

We published yesterday our reality check for how Starlink can play a role in an RVer's mobile internet setup - and timeline:

https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/satellite-internet-update-starlink-is-exciting-but-reality-check-needed-for-rvers-and-cruisers/

Great informational piece. Thanks

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Agreed that being usable and affordable for RVers is a ways off, that being said I wouldn't bet against Musk. Sure he's had failures but he succeeds a lot too.

"No one will buy an all electric car outside of CA"

"You cannot compete with the big three"

"you cannot make that many cars a month"

"you can't possible start a rocket company"

"You cannot land and reuse a first stage booster"

 

Edited by filthy-beast

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The reality check is to not accept what appear to be limitations today in a tech sector in so much flux.

Musk is looking for mobile applications. My new Tesla Model Y is connected all the time for about $100.00 a year currently I am told. (On Edit: They have LTE. When you buy a Tesla the first year of LTE is free.)

The limitation of many ground stations is being solved with a lot of activity in the Laser arena. The push now is to see if they can zip the ground station part to any satellite over a large ground station. All of the companies involved are working around the clock to resolve the radio frequency versus laser or optical solutions between the satellites and ground stations. Done properly, it may be possible to route the ground station traffic to sats with no atmosphere barriers like weather or fires.

Here are some very good articles about that. Right now the push is on to crack the last bits of code now that SpaceX has made LEO launches affordable,for StarLink first, of course.

First article Business Insider May 2019:

Excerpt:

"Musk said StarLink terminals would also easily fit on ships, airplanes, and other mobile devices, enabling these vehicles to have better broadband connections than what's available today."

This is a long but very easy to understand in depth primer on StarLink, and Musk's goals. This is from where the excerpt above was copied: https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-starlink-satellite-internet-how-it-works-2019-5#musk-said-starlink-terminals-would-also-easily-fit-on-ships-airplanes-and-other-mobile-devices-enabling-these-vehicles-to-have-better-broadband-connections-than-whats-available-today-20

The next excerpts and article are from LaserFocusWorld Mar 24th, 2020:

Excerpt:

"“SpaceX has disrupted the launch services industry, making access to low-Earth orbit much less expensive,” he says. “And a push to make small satellites has created a vendor base making all the things you need to build systems that would work in low-Earth orbit.

Most architectures call for radio-frequency downlinks from low-Earth orbits to ground stations because radio can deliver signals through clouds and precipitation that make laser downlinks unreliable. Tesat is an exception, offering a Tosiris laser downlink that can transmit up to 10 Gbit/s to ground stations with uplink beacons to aid in locking onto the receiver. To deal with weather, Biller says they install several ground stations over the area where the signal is to be delivered and have the system select the site with the clearest air to receive the signal. The system is designed to download satellite information, so it requires only several megabits per second for uplinks, which also are delivered via laser. Figure 4 compares Tesat laser transmitters for low-orbit to ground and between geosynchronous satellites."

The excellent full article is here:

https://www.laserfocusworld.com/lasers-sources/article/14104017/laser-links-will-link-small-satellites-to-earth-and-each-other

This is an evolving technology sector and just like the ULA thought they had edged Musk out as a competitor by getting their Moscow good ol boys to reject Musk's offer to also buy the Russian RD-180 rockets Boeing uses to this day, and humiliate him in the process he pledged he would have an engine in Five years and he did, and launched. The ULA is still using the Russian engines on their atlas vehicles for the ISS. Anyone predicting what will happen tomorrow with an air of certainty reminds me of Boeing and Lockheed sabotaging Musk from sourcing engines where they did. They are not as profitable anymore are they? While Musk is sending men into space safely gain, testing BFRs and Starliners, Boeing/Lockheed ULA is doing vaporware and bluster. Dragon maned missions as well as Mars are Space X as I don't see Boeing able to build planes without the software coming out rushed and hushing up bad news during development causing a loss of lives that otherwise according to Boeing whistle blowers and industry observers believe were avoidable.

I still see Space X' StarLink as the eventual winner. But no matter, it will be mobile if Musk has anything to say about it. He already has said it above.

Edited by RV_

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Some brief history:

"Space Exploration Technologies Corp., trading as SpaceX, is an American aerospace manufacturer and space transportation services company headquartered in Hawthorne, California. It was founded in 2002 by Elon Musk with the goal of reducing space transportation costs to enable the colonization of Mars.[9][10][11] SpaceX has developed several launch vehicles, the Starlink satellite constellation, and the Dragon spacecraft.

SpaceX's achievements include the first privately funded liquid-propellant rocket to reach orbit (Falcon 1 in 2008),[12] the first private company to successfully launch, orbit, and recover a spacecraft (Dragon in 2010), the first private company to send a spacecraft to the International Space Station (Dragon in 2012),[13] the first propulsive landing for an orbital rocket (Falcon 9 in 2015), the first reuse of an orbital rocket (Falcon 9 in 2017), the first private company to launch an object into orbit around the Sun (Falcon Heavy's payload of a Tesla Roadster in 2018), and the first private company to send astronauts to the International Space Station (Dragon 2 in 2020).[14] SpaceX has flown 20[15] cargo resupply missions to the International Space Station (ISS) under a partnership with NASA,[16] as well as an uncrewed demonstration flight of the human-rated Dragon 2 spacecraft (Crew Dragon Demo-1) on March 2, 2019, and the first crewed Dragon 2 flight on May 30, 2020.[14]

In December 2015, a Falcon 9 accomplished a propulsive vertical landing. This was the first such achievement by a rocket for orbital spaceflight.[17] In April 2016, with the launch of CRS-8, SpaceX successfully vertically landed the first stage on an ocean drone ship landing platform.[18] In May 2016, in another first, SpaceX again landed the first stage, but during a significantly more energetic geostationary transfer orbit mission.[19] In March 2017, SpaceX became the first to successfully re-launch and land the first stage of an orbital rocket.[20] In January 2020, with the third launch of the Starlink project, SpaceX became the largest commercial satellite constellation operator in the world.[21][22]

In September 2016, Musk unveiled the Interplanetary Transport System—subsequently renamed Starship—a privately funded launch system to develop spaceflight technology for use in crewed interplanetary spaceflight. In 2017, Musk unveiled an updated configuration of the system which is intended to handle interplanetary missions plus become the primary SpaceX orbital vehicle after the early 2020s, as SpaceX has announced it intends to eventually replace its existing Falcon 9 launch vehicles and Dragon space capsule fleet with Starship, even in the Earth-orbit satellite delivery market.[23][24][25]:24:50–27:05 Starship is planned to be fully reusable and will be the largest rocket ever on its debut, scheduled for the early 2020s.

Source:. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX

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Sure, I'll drink Kool-Aid served from Musk:)! Does he hit it out of the park each time, no. But he's a good track record of accomplishing what many consider unachievable. 

And wasn't it nice to see we have individuals still with the courage to at least try... 

I'm a Musk fan, and when he stumbles - I applaud when he gets up and tries again. 

$.02:)!

Smitty

 

 

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And here's an article from PC Magazine on what the FCC thinks...

The Federal Communications Commission has "serious doubts" that low-Earth orbit (LEO) satellite providers—including SpaceX—can deliver internet service while keeping latency under 100 milliseconds.

In a lengthy report on the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund phase I auction (scheduled for late October), the FCC confirmed that while LEO companies are allowed to apply for rural broadband funding as low-latency providers, they should expect a fight. "Short-form applicants seeking to bid as a low-latency provider using low-Earth orbit satellite networks will face a substantial challenge demonstrating to Commission staff that their networks can deliver real-world performance to consumers below the Commission's 100 ms low-latency threshold," the FCC said.

SpaceX has been hogging the headlines lately, over the weekend completing yet another Starlink mission, launching 58 branded satellites into orbit. Elon Musk's rocket firm plans to provide internet service in the northern US and Canada by year's end, with near-global coverage in 2021.

The company is confident its satellites' roundtrip latency is up to par for consumers and the Federal Communications Commission. "SpaceX explained that its system easily clears the Commission's 100 ms threshold for low-latency services, even including its 'processing time' during unrealistic worst-case situations," David Goldman, director of satellite policy, wrote in a May 29 letter to the FCC.

Still, SpaceX has a lot to prove and little time to do it. While the firm has launched nearly 500 satellites, it isn't yet offering a commercial service. And companies must submit auction applications by July 15—one month from today.

"The record demonstrates significant concern regarding applicants that propose to use technologies that have not been widely deployed to offer services at high speeds or low latency, or have not been deployed at all on a commercial basis to retail consumers," the FCC said. "Auction 904 is not the appropriate venue to test unproven technologies using universal service support."

SpaceX last year earned regulatory approval to develop a satellite constellation that offers a low-cost, high-performance solution to providing fast internet access. Called Starlink, it will eventually consist of close to 12,000 satellites spread across multiple orbits. Musk recently hinted at a private beta launch this summer, with a public beta by the end of the year, "starting with high altitudes," which, he confirmed, could include the German market.

 
 

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Podwerkz,

Here is the short version my generation remembers. :Everyone hates a Cadillac until they can afford one. ;)

The longer version from Aesop:

"A Fox one day spied a bunch of ripe grapes hanging from a vine trained along the branches of a tree. The grapes seemed ready to burst with juice, and the Fox's mouth watered as he gazed longingly at them.

The bunch hung from a high branch, and the Fox had to jump for it. The first time he jumped he missed it by a long way. So he walked off a short distance and took a running leap at it, only to fall short once more. Again and again he tried, but in vain.

Now he sat down and looked at the grapes in disgust.

"What a fool I am," he said. "Here I am wearing myself out to get a bunch of sour grapes that are not worth working this hard for."

And off he walked very, very scornfully.

There are many who pretend to despise and belittle that which is beyond their reach.
Edited by RV_

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Ajit Pai of the FCC IMO is bought and paid for by the cable and Telcos. We know this by how he closed citizen feedback comments on repealing Net neutrality because they said that the overwhelming response was hackers??? Nope just us citizens and I was one. Facts? https://thehill.com/policy/technology/332342-john-oliver-roasts-the-fccs-plan-to-curb-net-neutrality

Here's the full article from PC Magazine link with the article he excerpted: https://www.pcmag.com/news/fcc-has-serious-doubts-spacex-starlink-can-deliver-a-low-latency-internet

From Yesterday's PC Magazine:

SpaceX's Satellite Internet Teases Email Invites for Public Beta Tests

Excerpt:

"The company’s website for Starlink has been updated with a new email newsletter that'll notify applicable users when they can sign up for an upcoming public beta trial.

Want to try out SpaceX’s satellite internet service? The company is gearing up to send email updates to interested customers, recruiting them to test it out. 

Although Starlink is set to launch commercially in the Northern US and Canada later this year, the company is promising a huge rollout in 2021 that will bring coverage to most of the planet. According to SpaceX, the download speeds will reach up to 1Gbps with a latency ranging between 25 to 35 milliseconds, on par with ground-based broadband services. (The FCC, however, is demanding the company prove the latency is actually that low in order to receive federal funding.)

How much the service will cost remains unknown at this point. But the company plans to supply customers with a Starlink terminal that can be easily set up in their homes."

Source - PC Magazine Yesterday:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/spacexs-satellite-internet-teases-sending-out-invites-for-public-beta-tests

 

Edited by RV_

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Amen Smitty,

BTW, my model Y pickup appointment is in two days, Friday 19 June! I know you made some money with Tesla as well. Had I been just five years younger I would have waited to sell. Tesla closed at $991.79 today. If you haven't test driven the Model Y (or any Tesla) remember there is no obligation and Tesla won't start sending you spam emails.

The seats are more padded and plush feeling in the Y as opposed to the slightly harder Model 3 seats. The cubic feet of storage is phenomenal! The Frunk is roomy, and they even squeezed in storage between the batteries and rear cargo floor. Our Forester lacks enough storage for a few cans of food and heat source, flashlights and first aid kits along with our hazard triangle and emergency. I don't like boxes loose n the cargo area or taking up space that has to be moved to haul anything. When we lived here in 78-81 we had a VW/Westphalia popup camper and a 1978 Subaru Brat with that crazy tall camper shell. We had a Bare Coleman pop up tent camper. SO we could keep emergency jackets and supplies without messing with the glove boxes.

 

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Like Musk being too optimistic on times to market I said earlier this year that Tesla was going to hit $1000 within a week of my post. 20/20 hindsight says to not try to time the market because it did not. It took another month or two until it hit $1000 a share. But that did not stop some few from trying to make that sound like I was wrong.

I have been batting 1000 on saying where Tesla is going, my time predictions have been from a month or so to a year off. But Tesla/Musk/Space X have always made the tech happen and did each goal he's set out. You don't have to like Musk to admire his success. Some dislike him because of it!  :o

Edited by RV_

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Below is the Space X response to the hilarious attempt by Pai to not allow Space X to disrupt the current big donors from Cable corporations, Cell Phone owners, etc. that price fix with glee and rarely really compete.

There are two sides to every story and as usual I don't cherry pick a few sentences that fit the business narrative of the people who say that fiber is too expensive to lay, and that rural streets with two landowners per ten miles are not profitable enough. 

I challenge the Cable companies and Tel-cos. with big wireless services that they claim cannot cover coast to coast because it is too expensive.

Excerpt:

"For instance, Starlink’s capabilities are not reliant on an untested orexperimental technology. Rather, because satellite latency is a function of altitude, the Starlink system’s low latency is dictated by the laws of physics. Similarly, just as terrestrial networks adjust traffic dynamically to meet demand and can be densified to increase capacity, Starlink’s system uses steerable beams to manage traffic and is highly scalable. SpaceX therefore encourages the Commission to adopt rules that subject SpaceX to the same auction procedures as other participants and provide SpaceX the same ability to demonstrate its technical qualifications to place bids consistent with its network capabilities. To do otherwise, by arbitrarily barring non-geostationary orbit (“NGSO”) satellite providers from certain bidding tiers based on the constraints applicable to geostationary orbit (“GSO”) satellite service, would unreasonably depart from the Commission’s long-held principal of technological neutrality, artificially reduce competition, and prevent the auction from achieving the Commission’s goals. A technologically neutral, freely competitive auction remains the best way to connect rural consumers, particularly those in remote areas of the country, who have for too long fallen into the digital divide."

That whole article is here:

https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/103270664409099/SpaceX RDOF Procedures PN Comments (Final).pdf

The entire document is a easy read and if your goal is to go along to get along great, don't read it!

If your goal is to actually see worldwide affordable broadband happen, and you want to hear how we can provide real coast to coast broadband, then read the document. If he fails the marketplace will eliminate Space X.

I don't think any of the Cable and Telco and ISP want to hear that. They want to make up stories about how it won't work and in the same breath saying no one knows yet, and poor babies can't pay 6 million a year 30 millions a year to their CEOs that can't even cover the last mile of small cities and in their city limits. https://www.fiercetelecom.com/special-report/15-highest-paid-ceos-wireline

When you read criticism of StarLink ask yourself if the folks agreeing StarLink must be stopped or won't work and be a waste of federal money, without any more info than Ajit Pai of the FCC has and admits to not knowing, are they in the Cable, Wireless biz? See with proprietary receivers and no new fiber to lay, as that was and is the responsibility of the Cable and Wireless industries, means no BS excuses. My view of this FCC is fish, cut bait, or get out of the way! Let's revisit this after it is in operation or failed. There is no middle ground. Also his sytem will disrupt the hardware manufacturers unless they are willing to diversify into StarLink hardware. I am surprised the opposition to Musk, if they really believe it won't work, doesn't say to just give him enough rope and  . . . LMAO! Know why? They know it will and that is the end of Cable monopolies. He's not disrupting the smartphone industry. Just Cable and Wireless Internet.

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This is a second post as the first was screwed up.

Excerpt:

"Requiring SpaceX to bid as a high-latency service runs counter to the laws of physics and would mandate that SpaceX affirmatively mischaracterize the capabilities of its network in any bid," SpaceX told the commission. SpaceX said its latency will be lower than "many terrestrial services and well below the Commission’s 100-millisecond threshold for low-latency services." Because of the low orbits, "the roundtrip time for a signal to be sent from Earth to Starlink satellites and back is a fraction of the 100-millisecond threshold for a low-latency bid," SpaceX said.

The FCC plan would also prevent SpaceX and other satellite operators from applying for grants that require gigabit download speeds. SpaceX could still apply for funding in the 100Mbps-and-below categories.

Contrary to SpaceX's argument, Pai's proposal said that SpaceX does not have to mischaracterize its network capabilities. "Instead, our eligibility decisions mean that at this time we conclude that it is not in the public interest to permit low-Earth orbit satellite providers to bid for the Gigabit performance tier or low latency given their lack of a proven track record in offering the services that will be supported by Auction 904," the plan said."

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/05/elon-musks-promise-of-low-latency-broadband-meets-skepticism-at-fcc/

Read that one pager and see the attempt to insure failure and no competing in high speed because that is not in the interest of some of our biggest campaign donors. Oops it actually read not in the public interest. Coast to coast full high speed coverage is not in the pubic interest."

See, all the above is BS because the underserved areas have been that way for at least 15 years since the telcos owned all dial up Internet ( 1995 or so) and dropped the ball so the cable companies jumped in. And now the cell carriers are threatening Cable. So where were the Cell carriers and the cable companies for the last 20 years to cover everyone?

Musk is not asking for the funding as much as the frequencies. Amazing! And they want subsidies?? Legislative protection from competition??

They've had plenty of time to connect us. Write your congress critter.

Me, I'd like to see us connected coast to coast with high speed service. I'm tired of waiting for the cable companies etc.

I was told here in this forum starting in 2003 by the usual suspects that no one can build an electric car that will outperform and be better economically. Remember the long standing member who said it was a pump and dump?  They debuted in 2008 and did not go bankrupt as the American big three did (and don't exempt Ford because technically you think you can say they avoided that, when in fact they only made it through with about $28 billion in government sponsored loan guarantees.

Anyway I did my part to keep the momentum rolling by volunteering for any Starlink beta. And buying a Tesla Model Y. And investing in them when they IPO'd.

If you buy a Ford are you drinking the Koolaid?

If you have satellite TV are you drinking the KoolAid?

If you want RV fast Internet Coast to Coast. I think the facts speak for themselves. And just like recovering the first stage he very publicly tried tried again and now makes a profit and can launch for almost half what the ULA (Boeing and Lockheed ) can.

 

Edited by RV_
Original file did not show

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Paraphrasing the sign-up page:

WE WILL HAVE THE MOST MODERN, AMAZING, ADVANCED, HIGH-SPEED, BREAKTHROUGH, SCI-FI, HIGH TECH, SPACE-BASED INTERNET SYSTEM IMAGINABLE!

To help us test it you will need to give us your old-school snail-mail zip-code.

🥤

 

 

Edited by podwerkz

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On 6/17/2020 at 9:09 PM, RV_ said:

Like Musk being too optimistic on times to market I said earlier this year that Tesla was going to hit $1000 within a week of my post. 20/20 hindsight says to not try to time the market because it did not. It took another month or two until it hit $1000 a share. But that did not stop some few from trying to make that sound like I was wrong.

 

To be clear, what you posted on February 4th was "Tesla will pass $1000 by tomorrow at the latest."

So  here we are, 4 1/2 months later and you are claiming that you were accurate?? Nice job of revisionist history.  But if you want to claim that you are "batting 1000" knock yourself out. 

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Mark,

To be clear I said "I have been batting 1000 on saying where Tesla is going, my time predictions have been from a month or so to a year off." ;) Where it is going not when.

 

Edited by RV_

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Pod,

You are following what you are commenting on right? Since they are starting with the Northern tier of North America first and working their way South, zip codes are an easy way to pick the best or worst areas in which to do beta testing. Just in case anyone else was confused.

Edited by RV_

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Well I'm off to pick up a Musk company product, my new Tesla Model 3.

Wish me luck and when it is time I'll report on my Starlink system when I get it. I am sure that unless one is locked into cell data only if anyone beats me to it, I hope they will come here and tell us about it.

On edit: I was rushing to finish and get on the road to pick up the model Y. I had posted so much when I thought I was getting and had ordered a model 3, I just typeo'd 3 instead of Y. Explained later in the thread and I posted some pics.:)

 

 

 

Edited by RV_

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55 minutes ago, RV_ said:

 

Well I'm off to pick up a Musk company product, my new Tesla Model 3.

Wish me luck and when it is time I'll report on my Starlink system when I get it. I am sure that unless one is locked into cell data only if anyone beats me to it, I hope they will come here and tell us about it.

 

 

 

I thought you upgraded to the Model Y.

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