m2 106 air leaks

[Scrap]

Parker push connects and Legris 3000's get a max cut angle of 15 deg.  SMC KV2's get a max angle of 22 deg.  Everything else, well, probably shouldn't be used on a truck.  Gotta have that tube support sticking in at the very bottom there or it isn't DOT.

[hemsteadc]

She's going into the shop tomorrow morning. Arrow points to small leaky one.  pic isn't the best but it's all green

 About how much time does it take to replace 2 rear shocks?  

Edited May 27, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Ray,IN]

I replaced my rear shocks on my Spartan chassis in about 3 hours; at home in my garage on the ramps I constructed. I had the proper hand tools for the job and new shocks in-hand.

I didn't think I took too long, since I was 76 then. Speaking from experience, wear safety glasses when underneath, road dirt and grease in your eyes is inconvenient at best.

Before you remove that air line, clean all dirt away and make sure there is no pressure in the line.

[rickeieio]

7 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

Before you remove that air line, clean all dirt away and make sure there is no pressure in the line.

X2.  If possible, use an air nozzle to blow the grit out of the fitting before extracting the line.  

One thing not mentioned, is replacing that o-ring in the fitting.  Most folks just replace the whole fitting if there's a persistent leak.  That o-ring is prone to cracking on older vehicles, and is easier, and much cheaper, to replace.  I bought packs of 10 of each size from my local Mack dealer and now change out the o-ring when I have a fitting apart.

[hemsteadc]

8 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

I replaced my rear shocks on my Spartan chassis in about 3 hours; 

Interesting. I  wouldn't think it would take  that long just to remove and replace shocks.

[Darryl&Rita]

24 minutes ago, hemsteadc said:

Interesting. I  wouldn't think it would take  that long just to remove and replace shocks.

4 big nuts to remove, possible seized rubber bushings, all under the deck of a truck with limited access. Sounds about right. A shop should be quicker, but I'd still expect 2. Most shops quote work by "Book Rate", but our unique bodywork and decks mean the "Book" doesn't apply to us, so be ready for a higher bill than the original estimate.

[hemsteadc]

6 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

 A shop should be quicker, but I'd still expect 2. 

Just got  it back from an independent small shop. (Shocks) Took them 1.5 hours.  After being quoted 3, I was very pleased. I was surprised they had no lift or pit, so the mechanic had to crawl under it.  They quickly found the big leak at a large plug in the jct box I pictured above. Didn't have the part so they ordered it. 

I really like having the truck go in right when I get there, and the work done while I wait.  I tipped generously.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by hemsteadc

[rickeieio]

Should you decide to fix leaky fittings, take a good look at the cut-away Scrap posted.  You can see how you push in the line, allowing the collett (brass ring with fingers) to expand and let you slip out the line.  If the vehicle has a few years on it, take a small pick and remove the o-ring.  They sometimes come out in pieces.  Insert a new o-ring, spritz with a little slick'm (silicone spray or even a bit of spit) and insert the line, assuming there's no "ring" around where the seal will rest.  It doesn't really take any longer than replacing the fitting, and is stupid cheap. 

I'd bet your shop doesn't even know they can rebuild the fitting.  None of the shops I asked around here knew. In fact, the Mack dealer asked what the o-rings and colletts fit.

[Ray,IN]

10 hours ago, hemsteadc said:

Interesting. I  wouldn't think it would take  that long just to remove and replace shocks.

3/4" bolts and nuts hold the shocks on my 1999 Spartan chassis, which had not been moved since new, rubber bushings seized to bolt. Limited work space, 20 years of road dirt to deal with while looking up to work (thus the safety glasses comment). To top it all off the man doing the work was 76 with permanent damage to both shoulders and COPD. I thought I finished in a reasonable time.

I didn't replace the front shocks myself, as the tie-rod ends must be removed first,(Spartan says no pickle forks) so the 3/4" bolt may then be removed. (Spartan now has a conversion kit to use studs in lieu of bolts N nuts.)

Edited May 28, 2020 by Ray,IN

[hemsteadc]

Do you guys ever drive with air leaks?  I'm sure sometimes you have to, but maybe never with a leak like this.  I really want to go camping 80 miles from the house in spite of the leak, but I'm not sure if I'm about to blow something and have no air. 

[Darryl&Rita]

If you have compressed air, you have leaks. As an owner/operator, it's your job to minimize the effects of the leaks.
I blew out a rear brake line 20 miles from town. Do I crawl underneath, and cage the brake affected, plug the leaking line? Or should I haul a$$ for town, and get to the closest shop before the hose completely parts? The rain made the decision for me, made the run with the "Low Air Pressure" alarm in my ear. Pulled in, set the brakes, and air started building pressure again.

[rickeieio]

You ask a difficult question.  How bad is "BAD"?  With the truck sitting idling, how often does the compressor cycle?  5 minutes?  10 minutes?  If it's 10 minutes or more, I would go.  But that's just one opinion, and worth every penny you paid for it.

There is a federal standard for how long an air brake vehicle should hold air, how long the cycle times are, etc.  I'm pretty sure there's a presentation to be found at the top of the HDT section of this forum, in the Heavy Haulers Resource Guide.  It answers a lot of questions, and should be watched by any one operating a vehicle with air brakes.

In searching for the air brake info I found this, pertaining to repairing air fittings: http://www.hhrvresource.com/node/862

[hemsteadc]

12 hours ago, rickeieio said:

You ask a difficult question.  How bad is "BAD"?  With the truck sitting idling, how often does the compressor cycle? .....  It answers a lot of questions, and should be watched by any one operating a vehicle with air brakes..

Compressor cycles about every minute to 90 seconds.  I do not have air  brakes.

[Jaydrvr]

21 minutes ago, hemsteadc said:

Compressor cycles about every minute to 90 seconds.  I do not have air  brakes.

Without brakes in the equation, I'm not seeing the problem?? There's no longer a critical safety issue at risk, or at least the possibility of the service air going low enough to activate the spring brakes. So, the question is, what exactly does the air compressor need to operate and are they critical systems? Jay

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jaydrvr

[Darryl&Rita]

He wants to go 80 miles, to go camping. With an air leak. Multiple air leaks, I'd guess. One to one and a half minute cycle time is excessive. Hard on the compressor, if nothing else. Get much more leakage, you'll lose suspension (rear axle, cab, and seats) engine cooling, and anything else air related. Get it fixed, first. Lose the rear air suspension and limp any distance? Time to look into new driveshaft u-joints. Air bags don;t like being bounced on with no pressure, so might need to replace those. The suspension stop blocks aren't meant to drive on, either. Get it fixed, first.

[Jaydrvr]

54 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

He wants to go 80 miles, to go camping. With an air leak. Multiple air leaks, I'd guess. One to one and a half minute cycle time is excessive. Hard on the compressor, if nothing else. Get much more leakage, you'll lose suspension (rear axle, cab, and seats) engine cooling, and anything else air related. Get it fixed, first. Lose the rear air suspension and limp any distance? Time to look into new driveshaft u-joints. Air bags don;t like being bounced on with no pressure, so might need to replace those. The suspension stop blocks aren't meant to drive on, either. Get it fixed, first.

Okay, just my personal experience here. My Volvo has 1.9 m. miles on it. It has the original u-joints. The compressor had 1.8 m. miles when I replaced it and it was still working okay. The engine won't stop cooling without air, the fan clutch just won't disengage. Air bags rot from uv rays before they're at risk of failure. I'm this week replacing my second set because they're getting too rotten for my taste. I've certainly driven 80 miles or more with air issues to get to a shop, or home to fix it myself. But, everyone has to live within their own comfort level. I'm definitely less paranoid about things than I was thirty years ago. So, to answer the question, in a private truck I would probably consider going camping. Jay

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jaydrvr

[hemsteadc]

52 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

 Get much more leakage, you'll lose suspension (rear axle, cab, and seats) engine cooling, and anything else air related. Get it fixed, first. Lose the rear air suspension and limp any distance? 

My rear suspension never goes down, even with the gauge at zero.  The cab air bags do. My air hitch never goes down. Air seat never goes down.  

So as Jay said above, it's the fan clutch that uses air? I'll have to look at that.. seems odd to me.

In my particular case, so far I'm seeing that my worst case would be listening to a non-stop warning alarm... unless I'm missing something about the engine being derated if the air isn't up to at least 100.

Edited May 30, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Jaydrvr]

9 minutes ago, hemsteadc said:

My rear suspension never goes down, even with the gauge at zero.  The cab air bags do. My air hitch never goes down. Air seat never goes down.  

So as Jay said above, it's the fan clutch that uses air? I'll have to look at that.. seems odd to me.

In my particular case, so far I'm seeing that my worst case would be listening to a non-stop warning alarm... unless I'm missing something about the engine being derated if the air isn't up to at least 100.

The fan clutch only uses air to disconnect. Default without air is always on, but that's based on the Class 8 trucks I'm familiar with. I'm not familiar with your truck, but I can't imagine it's much different. Jay

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jaydrvr

[Darryl&Rita]

3 hours ago, hemsteadc said:

Get much more leakage, you'll lose suspension (rear axle, cab, and seats) engine cooling, and anything else air related. Get it fixed, first.

Emphasis added. My fan is air to cool, N 14 Cummins.

[hemsteadc]

I didn't say that.

[Jaydrvr]

1 hour ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Emphasis added. My fan is air to cool, N 14 Cummins.

That's different than I've seen and my N14 isn't like that. Hmm, learn something new every day. I replace my fan clutch and/or solenoid pretty much as soon as they quit, because the noise and reduced fuel economy drive me nuts. Jay

[Scrap]

Single head air dryers saturate at over 30% duty cycle.  Don't go over that.  Single cylinder air compressors aren't rated for much more than that.  Heat it up and coke it and it becomes an expensive problem.  Fan hubs drag and eat their lining when trying to switch on and off between 60-90psi, but newer medium duty is probably a magnetic one.  VG turbos in the mid 2000's actuate on air.  Wrong pressures and they'll be wigged out and derate, plus their air filter cartridge and expensive actuation valve gets screwed up by saturated dryers.  Newer MD is probably an electric one, but you need to check your truck to be sure.  Detroit One Box aftertreatments used air for regen for a few years there.  Don't know what low air causes there but it can't be good.  Shift actuators get stuck in the wrong spots.  Manual you can probably get yourself out of.  Automated with a range (not 6spd) you'll be stuck right where you are sitting.  Allison won't matter.  Cab goes flat for a long time and you'll screw up hood corners and cab cowl corners.  They'll saw right into each other and sometimes come home not looking too pretty.

[hemsteadc]

Just got it back from the shop.  Took them maybe 1.5 hours, while I wait.  I love that.

Bill says " remove/install new abs valve"  and "brake air valve."

I  don't have air brakes.  Oh well, she's holding air nicely, cab bags stay up.  Not leak-free, but at least now it takes 24 hours to lose 75 pounds instead of 3.

Edited June 6, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Jaydrvr]

1 hour ago, hemsteadc said:

Just got it back from the shop.  Took them maybe 1.5 hours, while I wait.  I love that.

Bill says " remove/install new abs valve"  and "brake air valve."

I  don't have air brakes.  Oh well, she's holding air nicely, cab bags stay up.  Not leak-free, but at least now it takes 24 hours to lose 75 pounds instead of 3.

That's awesome! Glad it worked out.

[Darryl&Rita]

3 hours ago, hemsteadc said:

Just got it back from the shop.  Took them maybe 1.5 hours, while I wait.  I love that.

Bill says " remove/install new abs valve"  and "brake air valve."

I  don't have air brakes.  Oh well, she's holding air nicely, cab bags stay up.  Not leak-free, but at least now it takes 24 hours to lose 75 pounds instead of 3.

That box in your picture has a lot of lines, in a lot of different colours, for a juice brake truck, but I'm not sitting in front of your dash.