HEPA Filters. Some mental gymnastics during idle times.

[Darryl&Rita]

9 hours ago, rdickinson said:

Then build one.

I'm not going to argue about it.  The data can speak for itself, familiarize yourself with it.

Here is a link to a Lee Valley Tools  hepa filter.  The specs are still only.3 micron.  We need to get it to .1 or less, or fewer.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/dust-collection/filters/64681-hepa-filters

 

 

That's it, this is turning into an argument I wasn't looking for. I trust Lee Valley, and their purchasing team. By extension, I trust their suppliers, and their purchasers. But, not as much, because I don't know who they are. Beyond that, even less trust. The counterfeit problem has affected the airline industry, automotive industry, all the way down to the children's candy supply chain. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Darryl&Rita

[SuiteSuccess]

Rdickinson,

I read up on HEPA filters last night.  Especially the NASA data.  Apparently 0.3 microns is okay in their weave.  The way they are designed and the “non-linear” airflow still makes them super efficient at trapping particles less than 0.1  microns plenty good for viral exposure.  So we have the filter and know it can be used in air purifiers and masks without exposing the wearer to noxious chemicals from the manufacturing process (thinking air purifiers and existing respirators) so we’re now up to application and design.  BTW just got the pics.  Thanks, I’ll get back to you via email.

Edited March 27, 2020 by SuiteSuccess

[SuiteSuccess]

4 hours ago, Imurphy907 said:

I have a PAPR for work since I'm a bearded fella. HEPA particle filtration. I have been wearing it more than just in dusty environments. Paired with Tyvek suites and gloves. I'm an essential employee and my wife has COPD and one of my daughters has asthma. Not risking bringing anything home. Been working from home for the most part but still required to do field work. Actually sitting in my truck on a job right now.

Stay safe.  My daughter, an elementary school teacher, is going twice weekly with other teachers to deliver food to disadvantaged students who were getting school meals.  She has gloves, but only one N95 mask which she cleans and disinfects.  No PPE cover for clothing.  She knows the risk but feels this duty outweighs the risk.  I’m scared to death for her and pray for them daily.  
If any of you have an extra N95 or Tyvek suit I could purchase please contact me at ecrcarl at gmail dot com.  I would do anything to protect my children.

[rdickinson]

6 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Rdickinson,

I read up on HEPA filters last night.  Especially the NASA data.  Apparently 0.3 microns is okay in their weave.  The way they are designed and the “non-linear” airflow still makes them super efficient at trapping particles less than 0.1  microns plenty good for viral exposure.  So we have the filter and know it can be used in air purifiers and masks without exposing the wearer to noxious chemicals from the manufacturing process (thinking air purifiers and existing respirators) so we’re now up to application and design.  BTW just got the pics.  Thanks, I’ll get back to you via email.

So, it is the way the hair is woven that brings the effectiveness down from .3 to less than .128?  So it is the bouncing around in the weave that does the trick?  Is this like a eggcrate type soundbooth where the noise gets absorbed with the convoluted shapes?

I have some Home Depot filter material..less than 1/4" thick that could suffice as a backer for the hair and also serve as extra filtration.  This is the same material used for the cold air returns on the roof mount heat pumps in the ceiling and the clothes dryer final filer....I'll send you a pic.

So there is another firm I can contact as well as the owner of the firm these 2 were purchased from.  I'll see what testing info they can provide without raising suspicion.

My thoughts are can we duplicate the same results using the same or similar product.  The  'weaving' may be the biggest obstacle.

We have some Lamas 30 miles from here, maybe the owners  can give me a couple of clumps.

The rest of the mfg process is a snap.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are the properties of the gowns material?  Are there other products that will achieve the same result?  Again, fabrication isn't a problem.  We have Quilting stores, Sewing machine stores.  I personally know Dean Sawyer of Sawyer Sewing Center

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RE ventilators, you and others here know all about these.  Are they that complicated or are they made uber complicated.  There are some vids on UTube I started to watch and will follow up.  I'm pinched for time as I have to recertify for a certification.

Can a simplified version be made with off the shelf parts.

We have some Braniacs at UVIC who thrive on this stuff.  They have developed a bandage with sensors that detects infection, ph or acidic levels.  I think it changes color.  Trying to catch it before infection gets away.

Maybe it can be reverse engineered.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by rdickinson
better info

[SuiteSuccess]

2 minutes ago, rdickinson said:

So, it is the way the hair is woven that brings the effectiveness down from .3 to less than .128?  So it is the bouncing around in the weave that does the trick?  Is this like a eggcrate type soundbooth where the noise gets absorbed with the convoluted shapes?

I have some Home Depot filter material..less than 1/4" thick that could suffice as a backer for the hair and also serve as extra filtration.  This is the same material used for the cold air returns on the roof mount heat pumps in the ceiling and the clothes dryer final filer....I'll send you a pic.

So there is another firm I can contact as well as the owner of the firm these 2 were purchased from.  I'll see what testing info they can provide without raising suspicion.

My thoughts are can we duplicate the same results using the same or similar product.  The  'weaving' may be the biggest obstacle.

We have some Lamas 30 miles from here, maybe the owners  can give me a couple of clumps.

The rest of the mfg process is a snap.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are the properties of the gowns material?  Are there other products that will achieve the same result?  Again, fabrication isn't a problem.  We have Quilting stores, Sewing machine stores.  I personally know Dean Sawyer of Sawyer Sewing Center

I don't understand why you are running out or short, You're the USA, it doesn't make sense.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE ventilators, you and others here know all about these.  Are they that complicated or are they made uber complicated.  There are some vids on UTube I started to watch and will follow up.  I'm pinched for time as I have to recertify for a certification.

Can a simplified version be made with off the shelf parts.

We have some Braniacs at UVIC who thrive on this stuff.  They have developed a bandage with sensors that detects infection, ph or acidic levels.  I think it changes color.  Trying to catch it before infection gets away.

Maybe it can be reverse engineered.

 

The material in the HEPAs has some electrostatic properties that apparently attract the sub.3 micron particles that have gained a charge because of the turbulent air flow in the weave. They are then electrically bound to the fibers. Apparently lots of science in design. 

[rdickinson]

OK, I'm looking into what the Alpaca hair does.  The boss is out but texted me he will respond when he returns.  I'm trying another source.

Maureen e-mailed me.  Package goes out today.

[adept99]

Rick,

Take a look @ well pump filters. You can find them down to .01 microns  some string based, some folded paper.

[rickeieio]

A dusty old bandana was good enough for John Wayne.  He weren't afraid of no stinking virus.  Oh, wait.  He's dead.

Seriously, if the virus is ~.1 micron, and the filter is .3 or so, most of the target will still get trapped.  I'm not saying we shouldn't try to get all of those little rascals, but most is better than none.  After all, no matter how hard we try, some will slip through the cracks.

 Darwin is doing his job here.  I just hope it's not my turn......

[rdickinson]

I'm finding out a little about the mask.  There is an electrostatic charge induced by washing that lasts for about 50 hrs then needs washing and drying again.  1000 hrs then it's done. toss it and replace.

I've swent of a request for info from the mfgr in Australia.  He isn't seeing the light of day in production.  These other guys were 21$ can more expensive than local firm.

I'd like to see if they can be made under license like the V12 Rolls Royce Merlin made by Packard for Spits and Mustangs.in WW2.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

2 hours ago, rickeieio said:

A dusty old bandana was good enough for John Wayne.  He weren't afraid of no stinking virus.  Oh, wait.  He's dead.

Seriously, if the virus is ~.1 micron, and the filter is .3 or so, most of the target will still get trapped.  I'm not saying we shouldn't try to get all of those little rascals, but most is better than none.  After all, no matter how hard we try, some will slip through the cracks.

 Darwin is doing his job here.  I just hope it's not my turn......

Rick, if it happens to be your time to go, I will lift a glass of Jameson's in your honor and memory. If I go first, as much as it pains you, how about lifting a glass of Gentleman Jack in my memory.

None of us are spring chickens anymore (more like late fall....) and I hope that all of my RV friends come thru this OK.

[rickeieio]

David, I'll do it, just for you.  In fact, I'll pour the rest of the bottle on your grave.  Mind I filter it first?

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Rick, doubt it you would find anything in the filter,  Gentleman Jack is already double filtered,  but do what you think feels right.

[rickeieio]

I meant filter it through my kidneys......😄

[GeorgiaHybrid]

In that case..... Filter away.

[SuiteSuccess]

22 minutes ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

In that case..... Filter away.

Uh, David, he’s saying he’s gonna pee on your grave😜

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Yep, I understand that Carl and would do no less to him..😄

[RandyA]

Last year I was doing some painting with urethane and a catalyst like super glue.  Nasty stuff to breathe, get on your face or body.  I had a face mask and filter along with a set of coveralls (very hot inside).  They did the trick and I do have a new set of unopened filters.   But, we are in a rural area, have no close neighbors and I have more yard clean up and work than I know what to do with so I won't be bored with nothing to do.  No need to see anyone or go anywhere.  Anyway, cleaning up I opened an old plastic chest containing pool toys and stuff and noted the swim mask and snorkel.   So, if you want to really freak someone out put on the face mask covering your nose and eyes, mount a carbon block filter (of which I have several for our ice maker) on the end of the snorkel and you might be OK if you can get enough 02 through the filter.  For the full effect add the swim fins.  Oh, I almost forgot, I have a SCUBA rig in the barn.  The air tank is full.  That would be a good one.  Or I could repurpose a wagon or cart to haul the cylinder of Oxygen from my gas welding rig around and make a mask and hose for the tank.  Personally, I think I will just stay home with granny's shotgun close by to persuade any unwanted visitors to avoid coming up my driveway.  I am pretty sure my boat and fishing gear are devoid of COVID-19 - what better place to be than alone in the middle of the river with a line in the water?

[Pete Kildow]

Just buy a few MERV 13 furnace filters. Cut them into small pieces. Ducktape over a motorcycle helmet. Your set until your not.

You can also stick one of those filters 20x20 behind a box fan. And make a room HEPA filter. Cleans the air so good, smells like our Roomba with HEPA filters had cleaned it.

[Imurphy907]

36 minutes ago, Pete Kildow said:

Just buy a few MERV 13 furnace filters. Cut them into small pieces. Ducktape over a motorcycle helmet. Your set until your not.

You can also stick one of those filters 20x20 behind a box fan. And make a room HEPA filter. Cleans the air so good, smells like our Roomba with HEPA filters had cleaned it.

The MERV rating of a HEPA filter is at min. 17 with the majority being around 20. A MERV 13 filter is great for pollen and dust and even touted for some viruses and mold.

The big difference between between a HEPA and non HEPA rated filter is efficiency. A non rated filter even at a MERV 16 will only catch 75% of 0.3 micron particles. Where a HEPA rated filter is tested at 99.9% at 0.3 microns.

I use MERV 13 filters in my furnace along with UV and electronic filtration systems. And I use MERV 13 filters when working in the house to catch more of the dust from sanding and such. but they are NOT the same as a HEPA by any stretch of the imagination.

[Pete Kildow]

15 hours ago, Imurphy907 said:

The MERV rating of a HEPA filter is at min. 17 with the majority being around 20. A MERV 13 filter is great for pollen and dust and even touted for some viruses and mold.

The big difference between between a HEPA and non HEPA rated filter is efficiency. A non rated filter even at a MERV 16 will only catch 75% of 0.3 micron particles. Where a HEPA rated filter is tested at 99.9% at 0.3 microns.

I use MERV 13 filters in my furnace along with UV and electronic filtration systems. And I use MERV 13 filters when working in the house to catch more of the dust from sanding and such. but they are NOT the same as a HEPA by any stretch of the imagination.

Good to know and will check mine again to make sure. But don't care what they catch or don't catch. Makes the air in each room smell just like it does when cleaned by a HEPA filter.

Just looked and the ones I use are 16's. Our AC guy told me to not use those in our central unit. I can hear it trying to suck the filter in with a 13. While a 11 does not Make the same sound.

Friend of mine was the one that told me to use the filters behind a fan. He's a Dr and over the hospital near us. And when I read up on it, yes a 13 to 16 MARV is what hospital's & general surgery use. They catch Bacteria, droplet nuclei (sneeze), cooking oil, most smoke, and insecticide dust, most face powder, most paint pigments.

I also run a whole house filtering system. That filters anything larger than 1 micron. I have to change that filter out every 6 months.

Thanks for posting the into. Always learn something everyday. Also check with the brand of Central unit you have. It may tell you to never use above a MARV 11 because it will make the blower work harder. Our unit is 29 years old this month. Still running so far.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Pete Kildow

[Darryl&Rita]

Which one of you guys is in California? Link

[sandsys]

44 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Which one of you guys is in California? Link

Thanks for that link. It is good to know how people are helping besides washing hands and staying home. For me, when my stimulus money arrives, I plan to donate it to a local charity helping those less fortunate than me survive this economically. Yes, our investments, which are our main source of income, are taking a hit but we have time to recover which means our needs are less urgent than those of others.

Linda

[rickeieio]

37 minutes ago, sandsys said:

Thanks for that link. It is good to know how people are helping besides washing hands and staying home. For me, when my stimulus money arrives, I plan to donate it to a local charity helping those less fortunate than me survive this economically. Yes, our investments, which are our main source of income, are taking a hit but we have time to recover which means our needs are less urgent than those of others.

Linda

👍👍👍

[Robertss]

We use an ozone generator to clean the car and house of germs. You can find on Damage Control 911 blog more detailed information about it. We also have an air purifier to purify the air during the day, because the ozone generator can only be used for a couple of hours, then ventilate the room and you should be very careful using it. Moreover, we play board games to keep our brains active and I play the piano. I've heard that playing the piano is very good for the brain. Thus, we have clean house/car and mind.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Robertss