When Time To Replaced Pair Of Batteries

[masterdrago]

Is there a way to monitor the battery standing voltage to determine at what age to replace a pair of 12 volt wet cell batteries? Is the age a good guide for both AGM and old style wet cell? My current pair are no name brand "Marine/Deep Cycle" that came with the 5r. Just really don't want to be out off shore power and find they cannot run in the hydraulic pump.

Edited March 2, 2020 by masterdrago

[hemsteadc]

Some use a hydrometer.  I just noticed that after about 4 years the voltage drop got more significant with the same loads.

[Kirk W]

Watch this video.   Determining the Health of a Deep-Cycle Battery

[oldjohnt]

20 hours ago, masterdrago said:

Is there a way to monitor the battery standing voltage to determine at what age to replace a pair of 12 volt wet cell batteries? Is the age a good guide for both AGM and old style wet cell? My current pair are no name brand "Marine/Deep Cycle"

Master, to answer your questions

1) Is there a way to monitor the battery standing voltage to determine at what age to replace a pair of 12 volt wet cell batteries?

    NO  the standing voltage of a battery at rest and stabilized can provide an indication of its "State of Charge"  HOWEVER that ALONE can't predict when its time to replace it, unless of course no matter what's done or how much its charged, it cant ever achieve full charge status meaning its TIME TO REPLACE. 

   If its a flooded lead acid a Hydrometer can indicate EACH INDIVIDUAL CELLS state of charge but again that cant say when its time to replace it, unless of course a cell is totally shot meaning its TIME TO REPLACE 

2)  Is the age a good guide for both AGM and old style wet cell?

     NOT necessarily if a battery has had good maintenance, kept well charged, and few of its X number of Life Cycles used up it can last longer then one that's been abused HOWEVER after many years of use sulfation and accumulation eventually start to affect its performance.   

   NOTE another good test which many shops will do for free that can measure a batteries ability/capacity to store and deliver energy into a load is  A LOAD TEST. If voltage readings at rest and stabilized plus a hydrometer check if applicable are all okay THEN A LOAD TEST MAY INDEED ANSWER YOUR QUESTION OF WHEN ITS TIME TO REPLACE    

 NOTE regardless of all the above and if your dual purpose hybrid RV/Marine batteries have some age on them, I WOULDNT WAIT TOO LONG BEFORE REPLACING THE WITH FULL TRUE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES  for dry camp purposes.

 

John T

 

[justRich]

19 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Watch this video.   Determining the Health of a Deep-Cycle Battery

This is a pretty good video but I was hoping to learn about adding battery acid to adjust the specific gravity. 
Now wondering if that is possible?

 

[hemsteadc]

1 hour ago, Rich&Sylvia said:

This is a pretty good video but I was hoping to learn about adding battery acid to adjust the specific gravity. 
Now wondering if that is possible?

 

Don't know, but I've never heard of anyone doing that.

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, Rich&Sylvia said:

Now wondering if that is possible?

Usually it isn't as most of the acid that goes is chemically into a coating of the lead plates that fails to release as it does when new. The chemical change that takes place with discharging and charging of wet cell batteries is one that eventually fails to work. 

[Lou Schneider]

5 hours ago, Rich&Sylvia said:

This is a pretty good video but I was hoping to learn about adding battery acid to adjust the specific gravity. 
Now wondering if that is possible?

Not necessary ... what gets lost during battery operation is H2O as the current flowing between the battery plates disassociates water into it's component Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms.

Specific gravity is determined by tne amount of lead sulfate dissolved into the electrolyte as the battery gains a charge, so there's a good chance adding acid will actually lower the specific gravity of the cell as the dissolved lead sulfate gets diluted.

[oldjohnt]

Its been years ago but I recall being taught water, NOT acid, is what one ads since that's what was lost and requires replacement.

John T  NO warranty, this chemical stuff is over my pay grade lol I would just give them a good charge (as much as possible) then after stabilization perform a voltage followed by a LOAD TEST to decide if and when replacement is necessary. Sure, before add distilled water if necessary.

[Kirk W]

Years ago, batteries were shipped dry, with both acid and distilled water added either at the battery shop or in some cases by the end user. There are, or have been products sold that are supposed to bring an old battery back (not sure what is in those products) but of the people who I know to try them, the products did very little or nothing to help the battery.

[Ray,IN]

One option is to use a temperature-correcting hydrometer to accurately determine wet-cell battery condition. Another option it to have the battery load-tested, it's the only option if it is a sealed battery.

 

Back in the 1950's at my uncle's filling station, we would dump out the liquid from a failing battery and pour in new acid from the 5G container that came with new batteries. Sometimes it worked for a while, sometimes it did no good.

Can't do things like that today,  EPA rules might put you in jail.

BTW, Unless both batteries are less than 6 months old, never replace just one.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Ray,IN

[masterdrago]

Thanks folks. Nice vid, Kirk. I'll do some in-depth testing using that info. The guy at the Interstate (expensive) Battery Center near me said that if I've been only charging with alternator, then to put them on a low amp desulfanator charger for a day or so. Said they were too low voltage to load test (13.3vdc on converter, 12.2 when no load and off charger). The general din I'm hearing is 3-7 years on wet cell and 4-10 on AGM but testing in the ways heard here is in order. And Kirk, I remember when we sold garden tractor batteries at Sears along with the container of acid. And since we dry camp very little, will most likely avoid the expense of Trojan or pair of the 6 volt config.

Edited March 4, 2020 by masterdrago

[Kirk W]

10 hours ago, masterdrago said:

And since we dry camp very little, will most likely avoid the expense of Trojan or pair of the 6 volt config.

I suggest you check with either COSTCO or Sam's Club for batteries, particularly of the 6V golf cart type as they both sell them which are manufactured by Interstate Battery and for a pretty good price. 

[oldjohnt]

10 hours ago, masterdrago said:

And since we dry camp very little, will most likely avoid the expense of Trojan or pair of the 6 volt config.

Just FYI and unlike as readily available many years ago, you can buy true Deep Cycle Batteries in EITHER Wet Flooded Lead Acid or AGM in SINGLE 12 volt units to avoid using two six volt batteries in series. IE Two 6 Volt Trojans (or other brands) isn't the ONLY WAY to get 12 volts and still have true deep cycle. There are other brands in addition to Trojan such as for example Rolls Surette and Crown and Interstate etc plus cheaper (perhaps lower Amp Hours ??) units like sold at Sams Club. Of course, so called RV/Marine dual purpose hybrid 12 volt batteries is a cheaper (less energy storage capacity ??) option, although they aren't full true deep cycle and lack their advantages for those (unlike yourself) who do dry camp a lot.   For infrequent dry campers the cheaper 12 Volt RV/Marine dual purpose hybrid batteries can "work" but even if a bit more expensive the next step up (my personal advice) would be the cheaper lower amp hour although still "Deep Cycle" Sams Club units.       

FWIW I agree with the Interstate Battery guy. Prior to a meaningful Load Test the battery needs to be fully charged and if you look at for example Trojans website it describes the proper way to Equalize (Desulfate) which may help revive an abused battery. If you do as he suggested and desulfate then charge it to 100% SOC and then they perform a Load Test NOW THAT CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION OF THE NECESSITY OF REPLACEMENT...Once full charged the Load Test can provide the final verdict lol

The final decision of using a cheaper lower capacity RV/Marine battery or true deep cycles (be they wet flooded lead acid or AGM) or two sixes in series or a single 12 volt unit is YOURS ALONE subject to your energy requirements use and BUDGET.

Your time and research should help you make an informed decision and choose the best option FOR YOUR NEEDS

Congratulations and best wishes, let us know what you decide

John T

[ARGO]

FYI, you might call the local Interstate distributor for a price. They may have "blems" . (They are not really blemished, but they call them that so the distributors can't bitch that they are selling good batteries straight to the public.................................) 

[Sehc]

Never add any thing to a lead acid battery except distilled water. Only distilled water. Period.

[MNRon]

Second the suggestion to look at Costco or Sams for two 6v batteries.  Those are best capacity/price for decent batteries. 

[Lou Schneider]

If you don't have a Costco or Sam's Club membership, Batteries Plus has pretty good prices on Duracell (East Penn) 6 volt golf cart batteries.  You get 10% off if you order online and pick up at a local store.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Lou Schneider

[noteven]

100 amp hours x 80% (80ah) useable for a drop in group 31 LiFe04 = 80 amp hours. 80 amp hours x 3000 cycles = 240,000ah /$900 = $.00375 per ah.

80ah need 2x 200ah wet batts x 400 cycles = 32000ah / $200 on sale = $.00625 per ah.

Ya but...Li need to live inside when it’s cold and I don’t wanna house train...