Happy Camper Extreme

[mptjelgin]

SeeLevel Gauges actually work very well, and are a far better option than the "normal" RV gauges.  I'm surprised that the OP is having issues with their gray water tank not reading reliably. I wonder if the sensor is well-bonded to the outside of the tank. 

If you ever have an RV with reliable gauges you will enjoy them. I remember when I was young and poor and had a car with a non-working gas gauge.  I filled up based on mileage and made it work, but I'm sure not anxious to go back to not having a usable gauge! In the car or in the RV...

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

But a septic system will not function at all without it...

Where in a septic system would you find DHMO  or Hydric acid, if it has to have some?

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, 2gypsies said:

I don't think RVers have enough time before dumping for bacteria to really work as one hopes. 

I have been doing that for years and nearly everything is liquified and Barb indicated the same. There are many others of us who just let the natural process begin in our waste tanks and it does work. 

[2gypsies]

Don't you wish we could flip a light switch and look at what's really going on in the tanks?

[Dutch_12078]

35 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Where in a septic system would you find DHMO  or Hydric acid, if it has to have some?

Everywhere? And more gets added every time you flush or turn on a faucet...

"DHMO" = 2 hydrogen atoms + 1 oxygen atom = "H2O" = "water"

[Dutch_12078]

4 minutes ago, 2gypsies said:

Don't you wish we could flip a light switch and look at what's really going on in the tanks?

I've looked in them with a lighted borescope. It ain't pretty!

[Barbaraok]

Some of us can go up to 2 weeks before needing to dump black tank.   Actually, natural bacteria in your intestines will be continuous working whether in your colon or your black tank.  Thus, some ongoing breakdown occurs.  How much depends upon a lot of factors, but it will be happening.  

[sandsys]

6 hours ago, 2gypsies said:

I don't think RVers have enough time before dumping for bacteria to really work as one hopes.  Some use Rid-X for that purpose but again, we dump to fast.

My point is that you don't want to use an antibacterial soap that stops the process from beginning in your tank or from continuing once you dump your tank into a septic system.

Linda

Edited February 20, 2020 by sandsys

[Twotoes]

My brother is a liscensed waste water technician who works for a city water department. As he stated to me, an RV black tank is NOT a septic tank, it is only a holding tank. Using Ridex is a waste of money because the waste in the tank is not sitting in the tank long enough for Ridex to be effective. He said to eliminate foul odor use lots of water. Also the use of Dawn soap when moving from one location to another will wash the tank and help with the level monitors, internal or external, by keeping the walls of the tank clean. Using antibacterial is good because it is the bacteria that causes the smell. Once flushed into the sewer system or a septic tank your wast will mix in and bacteria will be reintroduced. You don’t want bacteria in your holding tank. 

[rickeieio]

There's more than one kind of "bacteria".  What we have in our gut would seem to be a good start to break down the lumpy stuff.  OTOH, we frequent a family party lake, where the care taker once decided to get rid of the smell in the outhouse.  Every day, he poured some liquid bleach down the hole.  The smell got a LOT worse.  Just say'n.......

Oh, we subscribe to the DHMO/agua/H2O method and it works just fine with no undue odor. 

[Barbaraok]

6 hours ago, Twotoes said:

My brother is a liscensed waste water technician who works for a city water department. As he stated to me, an RV black tank is NOT a septic tank, it is only a holding tank. Using Ridex is a waste of money because the waste in the tank is not sitting in the tank long enough for Ridex to be effective. He said to eliminate foul odor use lots of water. Also the use of Dawn soap when moving from one location to another will wash the tank and help with the level monitors, internal or external, by keeping the walls of the tank clean. Using antibacterial is good because it is the bacteria that causes the smell. Once flushed into the sewer system or a septic tank your wast will mix in and bacteria will be reintroduced. You don’t want bacteria in your holding tank. 

I'm sure he does his job very well.  But, is his degree I Biology at the Master's Level?  

You can not keep bacteria out of your holding tank.  Bacteria is always present, you couldn't live without it's presence in your system.  The moment you use the toilet your specific bacteria are added to the bacteria ALREADY present even in a 'pristine', never had a drop of fluid in it before tank.  Both aerobic and anaerobic (with and without oxygen present) bacteria will work on wastes, aerobic being the first, but once all oxygen is used up, it goes anaerobic and a lot of sulfur compounds are produced, which give rise to a lot of 'smells'.    You can't maintain a 'pristine, non-aromatic' black tank, so why try.  The idea is to make sure the tank off-gasses do not enter the rig (water maintained over seal in toilet), that the fluids is contained (no leaks) until valve is opened to discharge into a receiving pipe for wastes which will further decompose either in a septic system or a wastewater treatment facility.  And there will be some smells as the waste is transferred, that is just a fact of life.   

[Randyretired]

I have installed a few septic systems and I think Ridex is a waste of money in a black tank and a septic system.  Bacteria will be present in sufficient quantity  unless something kills it.   The outflow from a black tank is nearly all liquid and certainly doesn't look like it began.  Some of that is the water dissolving the waste but it certainly looks a lot like septic tank water as bacteria is doing its  thing.  

[Lou Schneider]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Both aerobic and anaerobic (with and without oxygen present) bacteria will work on wastes, aerobic being the first, but once all oxygen is used up, it goes anaerobic and a lot of sulfur compounds are produced, which give rise to a lot of 'smells'.    

So it sounds like an easy solution to tank smells is to introduce enough air into the tank to keep the contents from going anaerobic?  Maybe add a second tank vent stack with a small exhaust fan to draw fresh air into the tank through the existing vent stack.  Drawing in air by creating a partial vacuum will keep odors out of the RV instead of pressurizing the tank by blowing air into it.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Lou Schneider

[Randyretired]

1 hour ago, Lou Schneider said:

So it sounds like an easy solution to tank smells is to introduce enough air into the tank to keep the contents from going anaerobic?  Maybe add a second tank vent stack with a small exhaust fan to draw fresh air into the tank through the existing vent stack.  Drawing in air by creating a partial vacuum will keep odors out of the RV instead of pressurizing the tank by blowing air into it.

Some marine tanks have bubblers installed to help with the smell.

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, Randyretired said:

Some of that is the water dissolving the waste but it certainly looks a lot like septic tank water as bacteria is doing its  thing.  

This basically agrees with what Barb (an organic chemistry professor) has said and it agrees with what I have experienced as well. I have years of experience of owning a septic system, and most recently of being very involved in the operation of 10 septic systems belonging to a 65 home co-operative community, where I served as a director and also as corporation president. My maintenance director there holds a TX license as a septic system design engineer. The breakdown of materials in the waste tank is exactly the same as takes place in the early stages of a septic system, even though it doesn't normally stay in the tank long enough for the completion of that process. It is the very same bacteria that start the process when the bear poops in the woods that makes his disappear. 

3 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

So it sounds like an easy solution to tank smells is to introduce enough air into the tank to keep the contents from going anaerobic? 

If you visit a sewage processing facility, you will discover that aeration is a major part of how that is done. There are several products made for placement on the waste tank vent stacks whose purpose is to keep a slight vacuum in the waste tanks.  The reports that I have seen indicate that they do work. 

                                             

Cyclone RV Sewer Vent Cap-   Vac-U-Jet RV Roof Vent-        solar powered RV Plumbing Vent Cap

 

I have not personally used any of these.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Kirk W

[Ray,IN]

7 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

I'm sure he does his job very well.  But, is his degree I Biology at the Master's Level?  

You can not keep bacteria out of your holding tank.  Bacteria is always present, you couldn't live without it's presence in your system.  The moment you use the toilet your specific bacteria are added to the bacteria ALREADY present even in a 'pristine', never had a drop of fluid in it before tank.  Both aerobic and anaerobic (with and without oxygen present) bacteria will work on wastes, aerobic being the first, but once all oxygen is used up, it goes anaerobic and a lot of sulfur compounds are produced, which give rise to a lot of 'smells'.    You can't maintain a 'pristine, non-aromatic' black tank, so why try.  The idea is to make sure the tank off-gasses do not enter the rig (water maintained over seal in toilet), that the fluids is contained (no leaks) until valve is opened to discharge into a receiving pipe for wastes which will further decompose either in a septic system or a wastewater treatment facility.  And there will be some smells as the waste is transferred, that is just a fact of life.   

Excellent article! I once held a CL A wastewater treatment license.

[Twotoes]

Yes Barb, he does have a degree, at the masters level, actually two, one specializing in waste water and fresh water management.  He is a licensed operator of a city municipal water system. The dawn, which is my idea not his, is only used to wash the tank when traveling to help with the level sensors. You don’t put it in while stationary. And yes your tank will always have bacteria as you have said but the antibacterial soap will help minimize the smell a little by washing the tank. But as you have also said water and ventilation are more important. 

[Barbaraok]

Where did he get his degrees?  We wanted to do something similar at the last university I was at, but couldn't find any schools with similar degrees to show the administration it was needed.   Of course, we had the same problem at another university trying to convince them that wastewater treatment was a natural for associate/baccalaureate degrees.  Higher ed administrations tend to be stuck in the 19th century!  

Antibacterial soap isn't needed for odor control, it upsets the microbial bed that has built up - - water and proper venting is all that is needed.   I put al dishpan full of dirty dishwashing water - carefully checking to make sure all spoons, etc. have been removed, down our toilet at least once a week, even when stationary.  

[RV_]

Barb,

That's a really good idea about the dirty dishwater. I used to dump before hitting the road from each campground with only enough freshwater to use the toilet, water the dog, wash lunch dishes. However I'd put a few gallons of water in the black and gray tanks and fill the kitchen sink with a couple gallons of hot water and squirt some dawn or whatever dishwashing liquid she had, then run it down the dran. And fill the toilet to the brim and add a few big squirts of dishwashing liquid there and flush it into the black tank I just put a few gallons into after dumping and flushing. I'd let those slosh to our next camp then dump, and put a few gallons in the black and gray tanks. Repeat for each leg of our travels. I also never turned the overhead toilet fan on until I was through flushing the toilet. Even for the brief moments during flush when the toilet seal is open you draw those black tank orders up into the bathroom cabin air. Keep bathroom vent fan off during flushing. Then turn it on when the toilet seals were closed again

Safe flushing! (and Travels)

[Twotoes]

Barb, not sure what school he went to. He was living in Thousand Oaks CA, near Los Angeles. He is licensed in CA and now Idaho too where he works for a city water department. There are several levels of license. He is level 3, I think out of 4 not sure, and his license is higher than his boss. He worked for the Fed Gov’t before in a National Park.