Purchasing Firearms in South Dakota PMB Issue

[Acelead]

I am looking for some feedback from other Escapees members who are using South Dakota as their physical address in regards to purchasing firearms.  I was recently denied the ability to purchase a handgun because my ID said "PMB" aka personal mailbox (I passed everything else including the federal background check which used my same SD PMB address thats on my SD drivers license).

It seems insane to me that I can be denied even though I passed the federal form using the SAME ADDRESS they don't like on my ID.

I went down to the Treasury and confirmed that they do not allow gun purchases unless you can prove a PHYSICAL address (and that goes for concealed carry permit for reciprocity in other states).

I also swung by the Drivers Licensing office in Rapid and asked one of the ladies on staff (of 8 years with plenty of claimed experience with Escapees members) who said that Escapees is NOT a legal physical address and therefor she could not legally remove the PMB on my license (which wouldve solved the problem).

So basically from my research today I can't purchase a firearm, I cannot obtain a concealed carry permit and I actually legally can't claim my Escapees SD address is a physical address.

So my question is....how are we (South Dakota escapees members with no physical address) supposed to purchase firearms in South Dakota given this info?

Any feedback/thoughts/etc would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance for your time!

P.S. I read through the forum before posting this and saw previous posts regarding how some smaller gun dealers choose to "overlook" the PMB and although I'm sure I could find someone who could hook me up, I'm far more interested in why our "legal" physical address is apparently not a legal physical address.  I'd like to figure out how to purchase firearms without worrying about whether or not the store will allow me to.

[NDBirdman]

Welcome to the forum!  Have no clue about your question, someone will be along hopefully that can help you.

[Twotoes]

Where did you attempt to purchase your firearm? A few years ago I was told by Shields and Cabellas in Rapid City that the local ATF told them they could not sell a firearm to a person with a PMB address. They were mostly targeting those that had an America’s Mail Box address but from your post it looks like the Escapees address is now also an issue. I was able to go to a local gun store and make my purchase. The State of SD recognizes a PMB as a legal address for your drivers license, registration, insurance (including Medicare Supplement)  and voting. As long as you pass the Federal background check you have the right to purchase a weapon. It’s the local ATF that is the problem. The number of people with a PMB buying from Mom and Pop gun stores is so little that they don’t bother them. 

[Acelead]

I attempted to purchase at Scheel's, Cabelas and Runnings, all within the last 48 hours.  All refused to accept the PMB.  None of the other smaller local shops had the pistol I wanted in stock so I have not tested whether or not they care.

Do you know why the State of South Dakota doesn't accept PMB addresses for Concealed Carry permits then?  Thats a HUGE problem, especially for us Escapees members who travel a lot.  Reciprocity will literally keep us out of jail in this case, regardless of the fact that SD is now no permit required for concealed in state carry.

[RonandSue]

Acelead, check with the Pennington County Sheriff. I don't use escapee mail service, was ok using Americas mailbox address. Sheriff was most helpful to me.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

We have the same issue in Sioux Falls.  The local Minnihaha county sheriffs office is not RV friendly.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Alie&Jim's Carrilite

[Jack Mayer]

WOW. I was thinking of moving my address to SD from TX, but not any more. Sounds like Escapees has not really done due diligence on their SD address. Not being able to buy firearms or get a CCW is akin to not getting voting rights, IMO.

[Twotoes]

I have a FL and Utah non resident CCW but Utah required that I have a CCW from my domicle State, SO Dakota. SD has 2 types of CCWs. One is enhanced, which gives you reciprocity. The other is just a SD permit,  no class required. At the time I was volunteering in a SD State Park and the local County Sherrif signed off on my application. I get reciprocity with my FL and Utah permits. Not sure what will happen at renewal time? I still have a SD domicle using the Escapees address but am not volunteering in that State Park. This is something that Escapees needs to get started looking into, especially the ability to purchase weapons. I had no problem with Runnings, just Shields and Cabellas but that was about 4 years ago. 

[JRP]

Its been several years since my last handgun purchase in SD. When I ran into this refusal at the R.C. Cabellas, I phoned & asked the regional ATF supervisor in MN if this was an ATF policy, he said it was not, that it was up to each licensed store to decide if you met the residency requirements. I found the gun I wanted in one of the smaller mom & pop stores and had no issue with the purchase there.

I've also purchased several long guns (including an AR15) in the last several years in other states using the same Americas Mailbox PMB address with no ATF issues.

"Do you know why the State of South Dakota doesn't accept PMB addresses for Concealed Carry permits then?" 

Thats not a correct statement in my experience, its not the state, its each individual County Sheriff that makes that decision. I had no problem getting my concealed carry permit in SD originally in Meade County(12 yrs ago)  and have renewed it 2 times, using my Americas Mailbox PMB address. The renewals did require me to show proof that I stayed in my SD home County for 30 days. My SD CCW permit is still the original or standard type since I never bothered to upgrade. SD now offers 2 newer types of permits called Gold and Enhanced. Both the Gold & Enhanced Cards (issued after 1/1/2017) are ATF approved for instant purchases, eliminating the background check when the card is presented to the FFL store. The Enhanced card requires an approved gun safety & use of force class (the Std & Gold do not) which makes it reciprocal in some additional states. The enhanced is reciprocal in 37 states, the Gold in 32 and the Std in 31. (changes frequently)

PS edit: my opinion here, I don't see this as something Escapees dropped the ball. I see this as similar to a dozen other issues where we as fulltime travelers without a fixed home, don't always fit within the black & white requirements as written. We frequently fall into gray areas, where the local or state officials make accommodations to allow us to enjoy certain benefits. As long as we roll with the punches and are reasonable & flexible, most times things work out. But in those gray areas we are subject to certain officials interpreting the requirements differently.

Edited August 12, 2019 by JRP

[Pappy Yokum]

On 8/9/2019 at 1:46 PM, RonandSue said:

Acelead, check with the Pennington County Sheriff. I don't use escapee mail service, was ok using Americas mailbox address. Sheriff was most helpful to me.

Americas Mailbox, Box Elder SD.

When I used Americas Mailbox, I did NOT have a PMB.

It may have changed - suggest you give them a call.  Been in business (in SD) lots longer than SKPs.

Nice folks - should have the info you need.

BTW - they have their own campground - which could be your "permanent" address (?)

 

~

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, Pappy Yokum said:

When I used Americas Mailbox, I did NOT have a PMB.

While you may not have had PMB in your address, by definition all mail forwarding services are providing a private mail box(PMB).

[remoandiris]

On 8/12/2019 at 10:43 AM, JRP said:

SD now offers 2 newer types of permits called Gold and Enhanced. Both the Gold & Enhanced Cards (issued after 1/1/2017) are ATF approved for instant purchases, eliminating the background check when the card is presented to the FFL store. 

I don't think that is correct.  AFAIK, there is NEVER a time you don't have to do the background check via the NICS.  Perhaps you mean the permit eliminates the waiting period.  If you are positive the state permit eliminates the need for the NIC, please include the statute or link to the statute.

[Twotoes]

Not sure about SD but in ID if you have a CCW you do not need to have a black ground check when buying a weapon. You still fill out the paperwork for the stores records but they do not run it. And there is no waiting period, cash and carry. 

[JRP]

"please include the statute or link to the statute"

https://sdsos.gov/general-services/concealed-pistol-permits/default.aspx

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart  

as you'll see in that ATF chart, about half the states have applied & been accepted for exemption of background checks, for those holding a qualified CCW permit

The logic is that the application process for a CCW is more stringent than the regular background check

Edited August 14, 2019 by JRP

[remoandiris]

20 hours ago, JRP said:

as you'll see in that ATF chart, about half the states have applied & been accepted for exemption of background checks, for those holding a qualified CCW permit

Nice.  Thanks for posting.  Too bad all states' permits don't have this option.  

[packnrat]

sounds like a class action law suit here. county/town, sheriff not allowing people there birth right as listed in the Constitution of the USA.

any and all who have been hurt this way need to contact the governor. any who now will domicile in another state also need to let the governor know that easy money is now gone to another state.

[Pappy Yokum]

On 8/13/2019 at 5:25 AM, Kirk W said:

While you may not have had PMB in your address, by definition all mail forwarding services are providing a private mail box(PMB).

Kirk is *always* correct,  (Yes, mail forwarding services are PMBs) - however.......

The OP stated:

  "I was currently denied the ability to purchase a handgun because  my ID  said PMB".

What "ID" ??

My SD DL did *NOT* say PMB.

Still have my old SD DL - NO "PMB" - has street address (I was a "one night" resident).

Req'd to sign affidavit for residence.

But - no experience trying to purchase a handgun with same.

.

 

[Acelead]

Thanks everyone for replying, I learned a few things!

My "ID" is a South Dakota Drivers license which I just got within the last 30 days and it DOES have a "PMB" in front of my Escapees "box" number.  I do NOT have a CCW as per my explanation in the original post.

I agree with the comments about the lawsuit, this seems like a ripe example of "shall not be infringed".  If I (or anyone else) passes the federal background check it seems ridiculous that you need to provide an additional address when the one from my license was accepted by the feds. 

On top of that, I don't want ANY address associated with my guns purposes.  With the direction our politics are going, there is no way that list won't be abused in the future.

To recap, based on the comments it seems the best option is to try a few local "mom and pop" type gun stores who are hopefully being ignored by the ATF. 

I was told by the woman at the CCW counter that I could show a land deed which would be enough to apply for a CCW (which based on SD law is shall issue).  You can legally buy an acre (or more if you are lucky) of land for less then $500 if you shop carefully.  Based on what I see here, thats the route I'm going to take.

With that being said, I will be monitoring this thread so if anyone else in the future has any ideas PLEASE let me know.

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond!

P.S. I was told by the woman at the Drivers License station that the TEXAS address for Escapees does NOT put the "PMB" on the license (its not legally required).  It seems this entire issue can be avoided if South Dakota didn't require the "PMB" on the license.

[Pappy Yokum]

"Monitoring this thread".......

Please return and post if you find an (as in *one*) acre of land anywhere in SD for "less than $500" !!

Multi-acres at that price - per acre = "maybe" ..... City lot = very, very  doubtful.

Lots of land available:  Google it.

And - (still) suggest you discuss your "situation" with the friendly and knowledgeable folks at Americas Mailbox (nothing against SKPs, but AM has been in business a lot longer in SD).  They might be able to help with your RE ideas.

Good luck - and maybe work on a "Plan B".

.

 

[Kirk W]

8 hours ago, Acelead said:

P.S. I was told by the woman at the Drivers License station that the TEXAS address for Escapees does NOT put the "PMB" on the license (its not legally required).  It seems this entire issue can be avoided if South Dakota didn't require the "PMB" on the license.

Unless changed very recently, the TX DMV does list licenses from Escapee mail services here as PMB. Both my wife and I had that on our licenses for the entire 12 years that it was our domicile address. What is different here is that the TX legslature has made addresses like the Escapees legal for all purposes in TX.

[Big5er]

On 8/20/2019 at 7:43 AM, Kirk W said:

Unless changed very recently, the TX DMV does list licenses from Escapee mail services here as PMB. Both my wife and I had that on our licenses for the entire 12 years that it was our domicile address. What is different here is that the TX legslature has made addresses like the Escapees legal for all purposes in TX.

Kirk, TX DPS (not DMV) lists the address YOU give them on your license. They do not look it up to see if it is a forwarding service or not. If your licenses have PMB on them it is because you told them it was a PMB. I have "lived" in a teeny tiny PMB for years. My license says exactly what I told DPS. I "live" at 123-B Farm to Market Rd 5678 #234. Now, you must sign an affidavit saying  that is where you "live" and they will ask if you have a different mailing address but they are not checking what you tell them. 

[#1 nosepicker]

You can not legally buy insurance for your vehicle in South Dakota with PMB on your drivers licence. I was told that the insurance commissioner requires a permanent garaged residence to buy insurance! insurance agent told me to use a friends address. then when you get in a large dollar accident they will denie you because you lied about your address! They make liers and crooks out of everyone! I guess I have to buy a permanent garaged Physical house to legally buy insurance for my pickup!

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

4 hours ago, #1 nosepicker said:

You can not legally buy insurance for your vehicle in South Dakota with PMB on your drivers licence. I was told that the insurance commissioner requires a permanent garaged residence to buy insurance! insurance agent told me to use a friends address. then when you get in a large dollar accident they will denie you because you lied about your address! They make liers and crooks out of everyone! I guess I have to buy a permanent garaged Physical house to legally buy insurance for my pickup!

Not true....  I have pmb on my license and have insurance, both vehicle, and health with no issues.  Find a better insurance agent that knows the laws.

 

[Twotoes]

On 11/17/2019 at 9:24 AM, #1 nosepicker said:

You can not legally buy insurance for your vehicle in South Dakota with PMB on your drivers licence. I was told that the insurance commissioner requires a permanent garaged residence to buy insurance! insurance agent told me to use a friends address. then when you get in a large dollar accident they will denie you because you lied about your address! They make liers and crooks out of everyone! I guess I have to buy a permanent garaged Physical house to legally buy insurance for my pickup!

I have the Escapees SD address with a PMB as my address for my RV, Jeep and Harley. I have had insurance for all 3 for over 5 years with 2 different companies. I also have my Medicare insurance with that address. Go to a different agent and insurance company. I am now with Geico. I was with Allied a division of Nationwide thru Millers Insurance before I switched to Geico. 

[packnrat]

not every physical address has a garage to park in. sure has a house on said land, just not even a covered place to park a car/truck/etc.