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Old topic of how much truck you need


Martin

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As a newbie that is progressing with experience - I would like to say this to get it off my chest:

Most likely - many of you out there have been involved in sales - so please do not take this personally.

When I was looking for a new 5th wheel I spoke to dozens of salespeople. Every single salesperson that I talked to told me that a 3/4 ton ford diesel was fine to pull a ~ 35 foot 5th wheel that weighed around 11,500 dry with a gross weight of around 14,000 to 15,000 lb. ( this is an average of the trailers that I was considering )

Before I bought my truck or 5th wheel, I posted on this forum for advice and watched many Youtube videos on this subject. I found a significant difference between what salespeople were telling me and what RV people were telling me, which was confusing and frustrating.

I had many 5th wheel salespeople that told me that I was over-thinking it. I just about bought a 36 foot Cameo that weighed 12,000 lb dry / and about 14,500 lb loaded but I was hesitant as I had already purchased a 2018 F-250 with the 6.7 diesel. The salesperson for the Cameo flat out told me that I was way too concerned about weight as he had friends that pull heavy toy haulers with 3/4 ton trucks.

When I bought my truck - I asked the Ford salesperson to tell me the 5th wheel tow capacity of the particular truck I was looking at. He told me it was 19,000 lb. and he boasted his 20 years selling Ford trucks, It is a single wheel - 4 wheel drive. He was wrong - and I figured this out before I bought the truck, but by looking at the technical data sheet, I thought it was more than it really was for this truck based on the VIN number. I found this out after the fact.

With all this said - I ended up doing this:

Instead of buying a Grand Design Solitude, I bought the lighter Grand Design Reflection 337RLS. it is 10,700 dry and I figure around 13,500 loaded while traveling. As it would turn out - at this point, contrary to what all the 5th wheel salesmen and truck salesmen told me, I am close to the "red zone" with the truck capacity. Its not the tow capacity of this truck. This truck seems to pull the trailer almost effortlessly and I have hit some grades. I am safely within the rated tow capacity. The problem is the cargo capacity or pin weight. It is illegal and unsafe to exceed this capacity - my thoughts anyway.

Now I have to face the reality, as I need to drive from California to North Carolina over several months,  that possibly I will need to buy a 1 ton truck before I am finished and trade in my 3/4 ton. Maybe not - but I am close enough to the truck rating to be concerned, and if I do - it could be as much as a $20,000 hit as I bought a new and loaded Laredo.

Just saying - always air on the side of safety and be careful with information provided by someone trying to sell you something. My experience anyway.

No offense to anyone and yes - if you look it up - you told me so.

And also - yes there is a big difference between a full timer and someone towing 10 miles to a campground for a weekend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I can't/won't comment on your weight and tow-ability. You have learned a lesson that you will remember for the rest of your life. The RV dealer and the car dealer are salesmen, all they care about is the sale, not about reality. Don't feel bad, many people go through this learning curve and just pay the price.

When we had an MDT a fellow walked up to us and started asking questions. He was a State Trooper, did his research, thought he bought what he needed with safety. In his drive to the campground with his new truck and 5th he had white knuckles the entire way. He was leaving the 5th for the season but he knew he needed something bigger and was curious about the MDT. This was in the early 2000's before pick-up style MDTs(550,650) were available. You are not alone.

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Most sales people in the RV business and the automobile business are poorly educated about tow ratings and uninformed about the real world, In addition, the pay that the receive is based completely on vehicles sold so their livelihood depends on them making many sales which rewards them for selling anything at any cost. I worked in support of the sales departent of a major company with commissioned sales people and totally honest ones are quite rare. 

There is another factor in good handling and comfortable drivig that isn't often discussed and that is the wheelbase of the tow vehicle when compared to the length of the trailer to be towed. In either case the rule that bigger is better tends to be valid. 

We currently tow a travel trailer that is 23' long from hitch to bumper and which has a GVWR of 4000# with a Dodge 2500, diesel truck that is 20' long. We previously towed that same trailer with a Kia Borrego rated to tow 5000# and 16' long. The Kia did the job but was a chore to drive when conditions were less than ideal. The Dodge hardly notices that there is anythng behind us, even with a nasty crosswind. As the heavy hauler owners like to say, "it is difficult to have too much truck."

Edited by Kirk W

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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I really don't understand why Ford sells both the F-250 and F-350 SRW trucks. They are close to identical, with the main exception of a heavier spring set/rear axle in the 350 which significantly raises the RAWR, which is where most folks get bit with the F-250's. The difference in cost between the two trucks is very slight and there is no advantage that I can see to getting the F-250 if you are buying a truck for towing. 

So the 2018 F-250 diesel that you bought has the same engine and transmission as the equivalent F-350.  What is different is the spring pack on the rear axle and the rear axle itself. Depending on the options the rear tires may be different as well. 

Only you can decide how to proceed. I'm sorry that you didn't get the information clearly beforehand. 

Mark & Teri

2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350

Mark & Teri's Travels

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Been in power transmission for about 40 years +/- . I try to tell folks all the time that what the manufacturers say is not really based on any real measurements or standards. If you want a real eye opener look up J2807 STANDARDS. When you look it up make sure you go far enough indepth to realize they don't really help either.

my rule of thumb must have a min. v8 (5L) up to 6.2L (step it up as load steps up)

1/2 ton truck = 5000 - 6000 lbs (max) prefer not to push that

3/4 ton truck = 6000 - 8000 lbs (max)

1 ton = 8,000 - 10,000 lbs (max)

People don't realize it takes a lot of horsepower to start off moving and some extra weight to stop (even with trailer brakes).

To keep a constant speed requires some power too. If you ware steadily going up and down on the rpms when pulling hills you are under powered.

God's Speed

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A big factor for towing fivers is overloading the truck. My 2011 F250, CC, long bed, diesel, was rated for 10,000 lbs and my 2019 F350, CC, long bed, diesel, for 14,000 lbs. It can handle a good amount of pin weight from the fiver where as the F250 was almost overloaded.

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Salesmen are that, salesmen. They have one purpose. If you want to make sure, have them show you the specs in a book. The fleet salesmen are better trained to specking out a truck. But it is ALWAYS the buyers responsibility to do there due diligence to get the facts. Sorry you had to find this out the hard way.

Edited by rynosback

2015 Ram 3500 RC DRW CTD AISIN 410 rear

2016 Mobile Suites 38RSB3

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, Martin said:

I found a significant difference between what salespeople were telling me and what RV people were telling me, which was confusing and frustrating.

The noises that come out of vehicle salescritters' mouths are typically unenforceable because:

  • The BS part is puffery ; and
  • even the objective claims and promises are typically handwaved in the purchase agreement.

For those want to be depressed/enlightened:

Edited to add:  I did interact with a useful car salesman once.  I left the license plate frame on with his dealership to give them extra exposure.

Edited by frater jason

--

2017 Promaster 159" , 570W mono, 220AH FLA

blog | RVwiki project

 

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