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Just saw this......Something to keep in mind if you are thinking about using Florida for your health insurance.

The Florida Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle Department is currently reviewing their requirements for registering vehicles/vessels and the issuance of Florida Driver’s Licenses to individuals who live full time in their RV’s or Boats.    During this period, they have suspended issuing new Drivers Licenses or registrations to individuals who utilize a mail forwarding service for these purposes.

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So existing would be grandfathered in? Does this only apply to first time people? And from what you stated it looks like it is coming from the state level not a county or city level.

Edited by rynosback

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5 hours ago, rynosback said:

So existing would be grandfathered in? Does this only apply to first time people? And from what you stated it looks like it is coming from the state level not a county or city level.

Correct.  Clay county asked the state for an opinion on this last year.  Here’s what the state came back with:

https://dos.myflorida.com/media/699707/de1809.pdf

As previously discussed, the common thread through the four scenarios is the lack of a valid residential address and no meaningful contacts indicating the requisite intent and physical presence in the county. The use of the Mail Forwarding Service and its advertised services alone including the Declaration of Domicile without a valid residential address are insufficient to satisfy the requirements for legal residency in Clay County for voter registration purposes.


SUMMARY
Customers of a private mail forwarding service who attempt to establish legal residency in a county by filing a Declaration of Domicile that fails to list a residential address or that lists a nonresidential address at which they do not reside and who have no other meaningful contact with the county other than using the services of this enterprise in the county to receive mail, secure a Florida driver license or Florida identification card, and obtain a license plate, or hull number for a boat, without having a past or present physical presence and intent to establish permanent residency in the county is not sufficient to establish residency for voter registration purposes and are most likely not legal residents of the county.

 

Bottom line is it’s not going to be as simple as it used to be to declare Florida as your legal domicile.  We literally just started full-timing on last Thursday - the day of this announcement - we closed on the sale of our condo in Ft. Myers.  However, we will be keeping our doctors, ties with the community, and have intentions of eventually moving back to the area in about 5 years, and that is what is going to be considered on a case-by-case basis as they referred to in that opinion. 

 

Edited by Jim1521

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The Escapees are aware of this activity but so far there has been no final decision.

Quote

We are aware of the issue in Florida, and we are working with St. Brendan's Isle. We are all awaiting guidance from the State of Florida's Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, which will inform our next steps. We will continue to make updates as we have pertinent information to share. 

Shawn R. Loring

 

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9 hours ago, Jim1521 said:

The use of the Mail Forwarding Service and its advertised services alone including the Declaration of Domicile without a valid residential address are insufficient to satisfy the requirements for legal residency in Clay County for voter registration purposes.

As has occasionally been the case in South Dakota, it would appear that the principal objective is to make full-timers ineligible to vote.  Having them retain drivers licenses and car registrations without voting privileges would bring revenue to the State without any impact to the citizens of FL.  It will be interesting to see if the State engages in a "shoot yourself in the foot" behavior by refusing to let mail-forwarding clients continue to have licenses and vehicle registrations.  

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By not allowing citizens to vote, they run the risk of those people moving to more 'friendly' states and thus take their federal matching money which is based upon census with them.  For smaller counties this can be a significant amount of the governmental budget.

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It is not only my right to vote but it is my duty. I am full time with no physical address but I am a citizen. As long as a State recognizes a PMB as a valid address for a driver's license I should be allowed to use that address to register to vote. As a responsible voter I should research ALL the issues and make an intelligent decision on how to vote. 

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21 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

By not allowing citizens to vote, they run the risk of those people moving to more 'friendly' states and thus take their federal matching money which is based upon census with them. 

But the census is based on where someone "lives and sleeps most of the time," and if that can't be determined, it's based on where the person is staying on census day.

https://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2010/resid_rules/resid_rules.html

In 2010, I happened to notice a census worker having lunch at Whataburger and told her I travel fulltime, and she counted me there. 

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1 hour ago, Sehc said:

This sounds like it is only a voter issue. Local rule is threatened. 

From what I have observed, you are right about the most common reason for challenges to RVers using an address in a particular voting jurisdiction. The argument is that we could impact the outcome of elections on things which do not have significant effects on us like school boards, local government office holders, bond issues, and a host of things which even if we pledge to never vote on, there is really nothing to prevent us doing so. I don't know of anywhere that voter qualification is different for different issues. What ballot we each receive is based entirely on the physical location of the address on our voter registration. Thus I, as a fulltime RVer who rarely spends any time in the vicinity of my voting address get the exact same ballot as the homeowner or business owner who spends nearly all of his time there. It seems to me that a state could solve the problem with changes in their voting laws, but it would not be a simple law to administer. 

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2 hours ago, Blues said:

But the census is based on where someone "lives and sleeps most of the time," and if that can't be determined, it's based on where the person is staying on census day.

https://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2010/resid_rules/resid_rules.html

In 2010, I happened to notice a census worker having lunch at Whataburger and told her I travel fulltime, and she counted me there. 

Escapees did a good job of making sure that we all got counted in Polk County no matter where we were that day.  

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On 6/9/2019 at 10:08 AM, Barbaraok said:

Escapees did a good job of making sure that we all got counted in Polk County no matter where we were that day.  

The census rules seem pretty clear that they are looking at physical presence--they talk in terms of where someone sleeps.  So what did Escapees do to get people who weren't in Livingston (never mind those who never go there) counted there?  Answer the census questions on their behalf?  Submit some sort of bulk answer on behalf of all of their customers?  Did they know if any of their customers were having themselves counted elsewhere?

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You really don't much about the census do you?   If you are not at home, you indicate such on the form.    The forms do come to you ahead of the "day" of the count so that you can fill them out and send them in.  As I remember,  Escapees sent out information about the census several weeks ahead of time and then we were notified when forms were received in Livingston so we could get them forwarded to us.     Hopefully, if I have forgotten something in the process someone will correct me.

BTW, very few people actually get visited by census takers.

Edited by Barbaraok

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It isn’t necessarily about voting. It could be people trying to claim Florida residence to avoid income taxes. With states access to data bases, they are getting more aggressive at tracking people down. The mail forwarding services are at the top of their radar.

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On 6/10/2019 at 11:59 PM, Barbaraok said:

You really don't much about the census do you?  

Just what I read in this document, which I cited it in my original post:

https://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2010/resid_rules/resid_rules.html

I'd recommend the entire document to anyone interested in understanding the census, but I'll pull out some pertinent bits:

Quote

The residence rule is used to determine where people should be counted during the 2010 Census.  The rule says:

  • Count people at their usual residence, which is the place where they live and sleep most of the time. 
  • . . .
  • People who do not have a usual residence, or cannot determine a usual residence, should be counted where they are on Census Day.

and

Quote

Usual residence is defined as the place where a person lives and sleeps most of the time. This place is not necessarily the same as the person's voting residence or legal residence.

 

Those are the general rules, and then there's this:

Quote

22.  PEOPLE IN TRANSITORY LOCATIONS

People at transitory locations such as recreational vehicle (RV) parks, campgrounds, hotels and motels (including those on military sites), hostels, marinas, racetracks, circuses, or carnivals - Counted at the residence where they live and sleep most of the time.  If there is no residence where they live and sleep most of the time, they are counted where they live and sleep more than anywhere else.  If time is equally divided, or if usual residence cannot be determined, they are counted at the place where they are staying on Thursday, April 1, 2010 (Census Day).

The "default" or "fallback" in all situations where "usual residence" can't be determined is where the person is on Census Day, and never his residence or domicile or voting address.

So you have residence being defined by "living and sleeping," and saying it's not related to a person's "voting residence or legal residence," along with a specific provision for people in RV parks or campgrounds.  Given all that, the only time I can see a fulltimer using his mail service location for census purposes is if he happens to be there on Census Day and there's no other place for him that fits the definition of "usual residence."

In no other situation do I see any support for a fulltimer to claim a mail service location for census purposes.  Maybe there's a rule or guideline that isn't covered in this document?

I understand that it seems like a person's mail service location should apply if nothing else does, but that's not what the rules say. 

Edited by Blues

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Blues,  did you look at the form?   It came PREADDRESSED.   The only question on the short form asked if the person stayed in another lodging.   We stayed every single night in the same home.   Technicallity - yes, but then everything about fulltimers is about the fact that we don't fit in any specific "correct" hole - we're square pegs.    If I vote in district #36, then I damn well want my presence in district #36 counted.   

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31 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

If I vote in district #36, then I damn well want my presence in district #36 counted.   

I think the inverse is now the concern  "Are you actually present in district #36 (or wherever)?"

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Why should some state where I pay no taxes whatsoever, get revenue sharing funds based upon my driving through rather than the state that provides some services to me (being able to vote is one of those services)?   

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1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Why should some state where I pay no taxes whatsoever, get revenue sharing funds based upon my driving through rather than the state that provides some services to me (being able to vote is one of those services)?   

I'd like to know what State where you spend any time in that you don't pay taxes.

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It is possible to drive through a state and not spend a dime, especially one of the smaller ones.   And it is possible to even purchase A LOT in Oregon and not spend any money on sales tax - since they don't have one.  That's where we buy tires for our rig, new computers, etc.  

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On 6/10/2019 at 9:59 PM, Barbaraok said:

BTW, very few people actually get visited by census takers.

Back in my working day, I was out in my shop (a stand alone building that shows on the county tax assessors office as a garage/warehouse) and a census taker came a-visitin one day.  She had climbed up the heavily forested hill out back to reach our place.  And she insisted that her records showed that this was a habitation.   I directed her to our nearby house, but no, that was not the case.  The shop building was shown on the federal records has a dwelling.  

I don't know. . .I simply just don't know. . .

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9 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

It is possible to drive through a state and not spend a dime, especially one of the smaller ones.   And it is possible to even purchase A LOT in Oregon and not spend any money on sales tax - since they don't have one.  That's where we buy tires for our rig, new computers, etc.  

Driving through a State is not the issue.  We were talking about the census and the rules which were posted above, where you usually live and sleep.  If you spent enough time in one State for the census to consider that your home, then you would definitely be paying taxes.  Even Oregon has State fuel taxes so if you were there for two or three months you'd probably buy fuel and pay State taxes.

Don't you have a park model located in Arizona where you spend the Winter.  Wouldn't you consider that more of a home than Livingston TX where you spend zero time, at least as far as the census is concerned? 

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