Florida Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle Department Temporarily Suspending issuing new Drivers Licenses or registrations to individuals who utilize a mail forwarding service

[Jim1521]

I just saw this message posted in the Bulletins section at SBI.  Wife and I just closed on the sale of our house yesterday.  I immediately went and changed our drivers license and vehicle registrations to our new SBI addresses <GROAN>.  Also attached a copy of the letter that I think started all this.

6/6/2019

The Florida Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle Department is currently reviewing their requirements for registering vehicles/vessels and the issuance of Florida Driver’s Licenses to individuals who live full time in their RV’s or Boats.    During this period, they have suspended issuing new Drivers Licenses or registrations to individuals who utilize a mail forwarding service for these purposes.  At this time there is no indication that this will affect our current Clients, unless there is a need to register a new vehicle or vessel.

We understand the importance of these issues to our existing Clients and those that wish to travel full time in their RV or Boat.  Currently we are working with the FLHSMV in Tallahassee and will do whatever is necessary to ensure your continued right to live your dream.

https://www.sbimailservice.com/bulletin/

 

https://dos.myflorida.com/media/699707/de1809.pdf

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Jim1521

[Kirk W]

I contacted the office on this issue and the following is the response that I received.

 

 

 

Quote

We are aware of the issue in Florida, and we are working with St. Brendan's Isle. We are all awaiting guidance from the State of Florida's Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, which will inform our next steps. We will continue to make updates as we have pertinent information to share. 

Shawn R. Loring

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Kirk W

[Mark Rinkel]

I got caught in the middle of this problem during an attempt to register my RV in Clay County this week.  After confirming on the phone I could complete the process by phone without a Florida DL and after they received my registration application, the Clay County Tax Collector changed their interpretation of Florida statute and required application of a DL with the RV registration application in person.  Additionally, my SBI address was not sufficient for Florida residency required by the DL application.  They suggested a 6 month lease of a location in Florida where the RV is located would suffice.  

I don't agree with the new interpretation, but I also have issue with the Tax Collector's office changing their policy in the middle of my transaction after which I made several decisions based on information from their office.  Their instructions were then contradicted a couple of days later after they received my application.  Further, the office did not honor my request for a manager to return my call.  I would expect more professionalism from the office.

I did speak with Scott at SBI earlier this week and they are working to get clarification.  He was very helpful in explaining what he knew and I sure hope he can get resolution.  With the uncertainty, I requested Clay County return my title so I can seek out another solution.

 

[2gypsies]

There are a couple other posts on this subject.  Hopefully, they can all be combined with comments so that we have just one to follow.  I'm sure there will be many more posts.  Good luck. It's not a done deal.

[remoandiris]

Wife and I got lucky.  Dodged this bullet by a month.

[rynosback]

At least South Dakota and Texas will still welcome you with open arms. To my recollection the switch to South Dakota should not even cost that much as if you have paid taxes on your rig/vehicles of 4% or more.  They do not charge you sales tax when registering.

[Twotoes]

SD does charge sales tax when registering if you are registering a new vehicle. But if you already registured in another state SD will credit what you already paid to the other state. Since SD sales tax is only 4% you most like won’t owe anything because most other states are higher. Also SD open arms may be closing some time in the future. SD is also looking at not letting those with a mail forwarding address not be allow to vote. It is only in the discussion stage and hopefully they will de die that it is a bad idea. 

[rynosback]

3 hours ago, Twotoes said:

SD does charge sales tax when registering if you are registering a new vehicle. But if you already registured in another state SD will credit what you already paid to the other state. Since SD sales tax is only 4% you most like won’t owe anything because most other states are higher. Also SD open arms may be closing some time in the future. SD is also looking at not letting those with a mail forwarding address not be allow to vote. It is only in the discussion stage and hopefully they will de die that it is a bad idea. 

They have been talking about voting issues for a couple of years now.  But I have not heard anything about not renewing DL’s and tags like FL is doing.

I thought I mentioned that about the sales tax in the post above your.  But thanks for confirming it.

Edited June 10, 2019 by rynosback

[FL-JOE]

Makes me glad once again we are Florida residents and using a friend's address for our own.

[trailertraveler]

Reading the information in the attachments to the original post, it sounds like Escapees Mail Service may have an advantage by being located at a campground where RVers can actually reside. I believe South Dakota requires folks to provide a campsite receipt or some other document to show that they are actually residing in the state when they apply for driver's license and registration. I think they require 30 days in state to get a concealed carry permit. Sounds like Florida may be moving to something similar to South Dakota. A search for campgrounds in Clay County showed only the County Fairgrounds.

[Blues]

The attachment to the original post was put there by the poster; SBI's bulletin didn't mention it, so I don't think it's safe to assume that it is forming the basis for what's going on right now.  The Advisory Letter prompted action against SBI customers by Clay County last year, and I agree that at that time, Escapees' location at a campground (not to mention one outside Clay County) might have been an advantage. 

But this time around, Escapees appears to be actually involved in what's going on ("working with" SBI), and their statement mentioned the State of Florida, which makes it sound like whatever is going on has expanded.  What's obviously not clear is what has changed from what happened last year--whether there's more going on than just that Advisory Letter, or even if that Advisory Letter is involved at all.

 

[remoandiris]

1 hour ago, trailertraveler said:

Reading the information in the attachments to the original post, it sounds like Escapees Mail Service may have an advantage by being located at a campground where RVers can actually reside. I believe South Dakota requires folks to provide a campsite receipt or some other document to show that they are actually residing in the state when they apply for driver's license and registration. I think they require 30 days in state to get a concealed carry permit. Sounds like Florida may be moving to something similar to South Dakota. A search for campgrounds in Clay County showed only the County Fairgrounds.

Not exactly.  No residency requirement for registration.  So, if Fla doesn't want my registration money, I'll keep my Fla mail service address in Crestview and simply change my registration to SD.  In 6 yrs when I need to renew my Fla DL, then I'll spend a night in SD and get it done.  For the SD "Enhanced" CCW, there are other requirements.

[FL-JOE]

22 hours ago, remoandiris said:

Not exactly.  No residency requirement for registration.  So, if Fla doesn't want my registration money, I'll keep my Fla mail service address in Crestview and simply change my registration to SD.  In 6 yrs when I need to renew my Fla DL, then I'll spend a night in SD and get it done.  For the SD "Enhanced" CCW, there are other requirements.

With around 1,000 new residents a day moving into Florida I'm pretty sure they won't go broke if you don't buy your next registration stickers there.

[chirakawa]

5 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

With around 1,000 new residents a day moving into Florida

Not doubting your word.  Just curious, where did you find that statistic?

[FL-JOE]

When we first purchased our sticknbrick in Cape Coral (2015) they told us that when we went in to get our new DLs and registrations.  This last winter they announced in a news article the population of the Cape had exceeded 215,000 already and Florida was still getting an average of 1,000 new residents per day.

You can actually look up the figures online.  There are over 21 million estimated residents in Florida and the last few years their growth rate has been at least 1.8% average.  That actually has been about 1,035 per day moving in.   

[remoandiris]

11 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

With around 1,000 new residents a day moving into Florida I'm pretty sure they won't go broke if you don't buy your next registration stickers there.

Thanks Capt Obvious.  I am not surprised someone of your ilk completely missed the point that SD is a viable option and one does not have to even go there to register a vehicle using a mail box address in Fla.

[chirakawa]

53 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

When we first purchased our sticknbrick in Cape Coral (2015) they told us that when we went in to get our new DLs and registrations.  This last winter they announced in a news article the population of the Cape had exceeded 215,000 already and Florida was still getting an average of 1,000 new residents per day.

You can actually look up the figures online.  There are over 21 million estimated residents in Florida and the last few years their growth rate has been at least 1.8% average.  That actually has been about 1,035 per day moving in.   

I think Florida has been growing in population at about 1000 per day.  In 2018, it grew by 375,000 which is a little more than 1000 per day.  Surely, though, some of those are newborns and not just people moving in to the State.

[rynosback]

4 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

When we first purchased our sticknbrick in Cape Coral (2015) they told us that when we went in to get our new DLs and registrations.  This last winter they announced in a news article the population of the Cape had exceeded 215,000 already and Florida was still getting an average of 1,000 new residents per day.

You can actually look up the figures online.  There are over 21 million estimated residents in Florida and the last few years their growth rate has been at least 1.8% average.  That actually has been about 1,035 per day moving in.   

But if every full timer left the state, I would think that Florida would feel it. Kind of like Spring Break. The big spot used to be Ft. Lauderdale, I think. That city basically did not want them and did what ever to make it not happen there.  They moved to another Florida city. Then Fort Lauderdale wanted them back as they did not realize how much $$$$$$$ they were making, or I should say lost the following years. But as long as there are other options, it is OK. It is Florida’s loss of possibly Millions of dollars every year. 

I tried to Google to see about how many full timers are registered in Florida, and got nothing. I think us full timers out number the residents of SD. It supplies a lot of cash for a not very populated state. They are just worried about the voting issue. As if full timers all voted in local decisions we could shape things there.

I have planned many motorcycle meets, and each town have wanted and loves our business. I have gotten police escorts from the towns also. Between the hotel, restaurants, gas stations, liquor stores they made good money on our short visit. Heck there are people who work for small towns that travel the country to get motorcycle groups to come out there.

Edited June 12, 2019 by rynosback

[rynosback]

15 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

With around 1,000 new residents a day moving into Florida I'm pretty sure they won't go broke if you don't buy your next registration stickers there.

Not sure where you got the 1,000 new residents a day. But OK, so you are saying 365,000 for the year. Are you aware that  203,353 died in Florida last year? 

http://www.flpublichealth.com/VSBOOK/pdf/2017/Deaths.pdf

So now you re at 161,547 for the year. I would think there are at least 500,000  full timers or more in the state.   By those numbers it would take you over 3 years to get back to were you are now. I personally think there are more the. 500,000 registered there. I also bet that more then half of the full timers that are registered there only go into that state once every 5 years. So let’s not be fooled. Florida is making good money on us full timers. Maybe they think pot is there new cash cow and want stoners instead of full timers? But they will require some $$$$ in services from the state. But we are free money.  It is a no brained to me. 

Do you vote? Why bother as you are only one vote. It all matters. We ALL matter.

Sorry for the rant but that comment was INSANE!

[Kirk W]

6 hours ago, rynosback said:

 I think us full timers out number the residents of SD.

So how many fulltimers do you believe there are domiciled up there? According to the US Census Bureau, SD has a current population of 833,354 which should include fulltimers if the count was accurate. Just for reference, the last number that I heard for Escapee supplied addresses was 15,000. I think that your numbers might be a little bit high? 

[FL-JOE]

7 hours ago, rynosback said:

Not sure where you got the 1,000 new residents a day. But OK, so you are saying 365,000 for the year. Are you aware that  203,353 died in Florida last year? 

http://www.flpublichealth.com/VSBOOK/pdf/2017/Deaths.pdf

So now you re at 161,547 for the year. I would think there are at least 500,000  full timers or more in the state.   By those numbers it would take you over 3 years to get back to were you are now. I personally think there are more the. 500,000 registered there. I also bet that more then half of the full timers that are registered there only go into that state once every 5 years. So let’s not be fooled. Florida is making good money on us full timers. Maybe they think pot is there new cash cow and want stoners instead of full timers? But they will require some $$$$ in services from the state. But we are free money.  It is a no brained to me. 

Do you vote? Why bother as you are only one vote. It all matters. We ALL matter.

Sorry for the rant but that comment was INSANE!

Generally speaking, a true full timer who claims domicile and has a registered address in Florida probably spends their winters there also.  Whereas a true full timer who claims domicile and has a registered address in SD certainly never spends a winter there, or much time during any season actually.  

So not counting the over 1,000 folks per day that are moving to Florida, they enjoyed over 126 million tourist last year.  So at any given day there is close to 500,000 folks coming through those northern Florida gates.  These are people eating in restaurants, buying groceries, buying gas/diesel, renting/buying property.  Is there any other state enjoying this type of growth along with these numbers of tourists year after year?

I always vote.  I spent some time dressed in green in a jungle making sure you and I can always vote.

I stand by my original comment.  Florida will simply not notice or care if a few thousand full time RVers who have mail service addresses in the state decide to go register their RVs somewhere else.  

Actually, anyone who gets mad enough should really make a statement and change their registration to Arizona from Florida.  Mine would go from about $65.00 to $2,500 per year...…..that would really show Florida a thing or two!

[FL-JOE]

8 hours ago, rynosback said:

But if every full timer left the state, I would think that Florida would feel it. Kind of like Spring Break. The big spot used to be Ft. Lauderdale, I think. That city basically did not want them and did what ever to make it not happen there.  They moved to another Florida city. Then Fort Lauderdale wanted them back as they did not realize how much $$$$$$$ they were making, or I should say lost the following years. But as long as there are other options, it is OK. It is Florida’s loss of possibly Millions of dollars every year. 

I tried to Google to see about how many full timers are registered in Florida, and got nothing. I think us full timers out number the residents of SD. It supplies a lot of cash for a not very populated state. They are just worried about the voting issue. As if full timers all voted in local decisions we could shape things there.

I have planned many motorcycle meets, and each town have wanted and loves our business. I have gotten police escorts from the towns also. Between the hotel, restaurants, gas stations, liquor stores they made good money on our short visit. Heck there are people who work for small towns that travel the country to get motorcycle groups to come out there.

First of all, I really don't think every full timer would leave the state.  Many full timing Florida residents who may utilize a mail service in the state also possibly winters down there.  I'm sure some of the RV parks/resorts would start their own mail service to accommodate them with a physical address.  RV parks/resorts are a huge business in Florida and the State certainly would not want to start seeing a trend where snow birding RVers stop coming down in record numbers like they have in recent years.

[Dutch_12078]

7 hours ago, rynosback said:

Not sure where you got the 1,000 new residents a day. But OK, so you are saying 365,000 for the year. Are you aware that  203,353 died in Florida last year? 

http://www.flpublichealth.com/VSBOOK/pdf/2017/Deaths.pdf

So now you re at 161,547 for the year. I would think there are at least 500,000  full timers or more in the state.   By those numbers it would take you over 3 years to get back to were you are now. I personally think there are more the. 500,000 registered there. I also bet that more then half of the full timers that are registered there only go into that state once every 5 years. So let’s not be fooled. Florida is making good money on us full timers. Maybe they think pot is there new cash cow and want stoners instead of full timers? But they will require some $$$$ in services from the state. But we are free money.  It is a no brained to me. 

Do you vote? Why bother as you are only one vote. It all matters. We ALL matter.

Sorry for the rant but that comment was INSANE!

Florida's population had a net increase of approximately 375,000 over the past year according to World Population Review. Florida has  the 4th fastest growth rate in the US. I doubt that all of the Florida mail service forwarders combined account for more than 100,000 fulltime RV'ers, and likely quite a few less than that.

[FL-JOE]

Don't want to beat this horse to death.  Just wanted to add one more thing everyone has to keep in mind about Florida.  Year after year they are flush with money.  Florida's State budget isn't anything like what you may be used to if you are from several northern states.  Heck, not long after we moved down there I can remember them spending around 20 million for additional fencing along a route to protect more panthers from getting hit by cars. 

IMHO it would certainly take more than 100,000 or 150,000 full timing RVers leaving the state to even be noticed in Tallahassee.

Both times when we sold homes and went full time we had opportunities to use either a family member or a close life long friend's address as our own.  The first time using our eldest son's address it worked great because we camped and visited family in his area for 3 months every year anyway.  Currently we spend 4 to 5 months camped in the same zip code as our friend's address that we are using in SW Florida.  We have been fortunate to be able to do this and it has made the whole domicile/address thing much easier and "cleaner".

That is why I always at least bring it up to newbies as a possibility to consider.

Edited June 12, 2019 by FL-JOE

[Carlos]

I can tell you that AZ has never seemed to care that I use a UPS PMB address for everything.  Not that I'm full time, I just don't think anyone has a need to know where I live.