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Service Dog related Issure


Kirk W

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Recently, I have been irritated at seeing dogs in grocery carts.  I am allergic to dogs and do not want to have to be close to them.  But most importantly, I do not want to take home packages of food that have been in my grocery cart where a dog was recently sitting.  Do I have to wash everything off when I get home???  Walmart seems to be a big offender in allowing dogs in carts.

Yesterday, I was on the road and wanted to stop at a Walmart, so I had to call them and ask if they allowed dogs in grocery carts. They assured me they did not and make people take them out whenever they see one in a cart, but that whole conversation tells me that it has happened. I have had pets until recently, and never felt that I needed to take them with me to a grocery store.

It is true that people are really taking advantage of the situation.  Frankly, I do not want to fly with a dog next to me, not that I do not like animals, but I don't want to end up with a stuffy nose and constant cough because of the animal dander. 

This whole thing reminds me of the time I took my 85-year-old mother and her two young grandchildren (my niece and nephew) to DisneyWorld.  My mother was in a wheelchair so we were able to avoid lines, but we kept running into a family of four in a wheelchair. In other words, they had one wheelchair and took turns being disabled.  One day, the mother would be in the chair in the morning, but in the afternoon, it would be the young daughter, and the next day it would be the son, etc.  No wonder people question if someone is "really disabled"!

People who do these things are also causing problems for people who are honestly disabled and have a "real" service dog.

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My wife and I always wipe down the handle and seating area of grocery carts with sanitizer wipes. We've seen more snotty nosed kids in dirty diapers in carts than dogs in the carts.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
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27 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

My wife and I always wipe down the handle and seating area of grocery carts with sanitizer wipes. We've seen more snotty nosed kids in dirty diapers in carts than dogs in the carts.

You've done it now, Dutch.  A whole new string of posts bashing snotty nosed kids is coming. ^_^

Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie.  Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die.  Albert King

 

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12 minutes ago, chirakawa said:

You've done it now, Dutch.  A whole new string of posts bashing snotty nosed kids is coming. ^_^

 

7 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

No, just bash the fools who keep them as pets!      🤪

Oops! My apologies for "stirring the pot"... :D

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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I've never seen dog crap smeared on a shopping cart, but have seen baby crap.  People are pigs.  And I don't know which is the more entitled, awful group; people who pass off pets as service animals or the current generation of new moms.

 

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Long before ADA our search and rescue dogs were called service dogs, as were police K9s and guide dogs.  Times change.  Now pets are called service dogs.  Eligibility for the aforementioned dogs to fly in-cabin came only after extensive training (often years) and certification testing.  I believe all support dogs/animals traveling in-cabin should require testing and certification or be confined.

Later,

J

 

2012 Landmark, San Antonio

2013 Silverado CC, 3500HD, Duramax, DRW, 4x4

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Airlines are tightening the requirements for emotional support dogs requiring more documentation (documentation that is not required for actual service dogs since that is covered under ADA) due to the increase in the number of "incidents".   Again, in the case mentioned, the dog should have been on the floor per the rules rather than hanging over both sides of the seat when sitting in the man's lap, so the airline did not enforce what their rules in that case.  You would think the man and dog would have been seated after everyone else.

I am so tired of irresponsible pet owners in general.  

 

Cathy

 

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Actually the man should be seated before any other passengers. He should have to have the inside seat so that the next passenger would not have to climb over the dog to get seated. He also should have been required to have the dog on the floor at his feet and not on his lap. The airline is just as negligent as the dog owner and is liable for the passengers injury to his face. Most airlines have someone with a service dog sit in the front row of seats that have more room in front of them.

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1 hour ago, Twotoes said:

Actually the man should be seated before any other passengers. He should have to have the inside seat so that the next passenger would not have to climb over the dog to get seated. He also should have been required to have the dog on the floor at his feet and not on his lap. The airline is just as negligent as the dog owner and is liable for the passengers injury to his face. Most airlines have someone with a service dog sit in the front row of seats that have more room in front of them.

My understanding it wasnt a service dog, but an emotional support animal.

2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J

 

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It was an emotional support dog, and they are not covered under the ADA.   ADA covers service animals, animals trained to perform a specific job.  And, from what I gathered it only applies to dogs, but in some circumstances is extended to miniature horses.   

  

 

Cathy

 

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51 minutes ago, SnowGypsy said:

It was an emotional support dog, and they are not covered under the ADA.   ADA covers service animals, animals trained to perform a specific job.  And, from what I gathered it only applies to dogs, but in some circumstances is extended to miniature horses.    

 

The ADA doesn't cover any animal on aircraft.  

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/service-animals-including-emotional-support-animals

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The ADA does apply to air travel. As your link says, animals that provide emotional support need documentation. Service dogs, are regulated by the ADA and do not require any documentation, nor does any documentation exist. There is a difference between service dogs and emotional support animals. Also a service dog,  must be a dog, not a horse, bird etc. An emotional support animal can be many types of animals.

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9 hours ago, Twotoes said:

 There is a difference between service dogs and emotional support animals. Also a service dog,  must be a dog, not a horse, bird etc. 

You're wrong.  Miniature horses can also be service animals under the ADA.  Dogs and miniature horses, that's it.

Under the ACAA, emotional support animals are allowed on aircraft if they meet certain requirements.  In the vein of this thread, the dog in question was an emotional support animal.  One way the airline failed to follow the ACAA in this situation was by letting the man hold the dog on his lap.

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On 6/8/2019 at 4:57 AM, FL-JOE said:

We were at the last Tampa show and witnessed the exact thing you are talking about.  I spent about as much time watching them as I did looking at some of the RVs!

 

So?  What exactly is the problem with that?

 

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11 hours ago, remoandiris said:

You're wrong.  Miniature horses can also be service animals under the ADA.  Dogs and miniature horses, that's it.

Under the ACAA, emotional support animals are allowed on aircraft if they meet certain requirements.  In the vein of this thread, the dog in question was an emotional support animal.  One way the airline failed to follow the ACAA in this situation was by letting the man hold the dog on his lap.

No I am not wrong. The ADA was amended a few years ago to eliminate any animal not a dog. Only dogs can be designated as a service animal. The old ADA definition of a service animal did include birds, horses, monkeys etc. but no longer, only dogs now. 

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The federal ADA was changed in the early 2010s to say only dogs, and to further clarify "specific tasks."  PTSD used to be a little gray, but it's specifically allowed for.  Also the ADA is the MINIMUM that businesses must allow.  Every state, and even cities, can create laws that allow MORE animals and more access, but not less.  A state could declare that your emotional support weasel falls under their version of the ADA.

 

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The revised ADA regulations are a bit muddied it seems. In one part they define service animals as dogs only, yet later on add:

"In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities."

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

https://adata.org/faq/i-heard-miniature-horses-are-considered-be-service-animals-ada-true

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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2 hours ago, Twotoes said:

No I am not wrong. The ADA was amended a few years ago to eliminate any animal not a dog. Only dogs can be designated as a service animal. The old ADA definition of a service animal did include birds, horses, monkeys etc. but no longer, only dogs now. 

 

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

The federal ADA was changed in the early 2010s to say only dogs

Not entirely accurate.  And certainly not the entire story. 

While the ADA did remove miniature horses from the definition of "service animal," it included a new provision that does cover miniature horses

When it comes to service animals, the ADA provides:  "Generally, a public accommodation shall modify policies, practices, or procedures to permit the use of a service animal by an individual with a disability."

In the case of miniature horses, the ADA says:  "A public accommodation shall make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures to permit the use of a miniature horse by an individual with a disability if the miniature horse has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of the individual with a disability," followed by a list of things to be considered when assessing the reasonableness of the modification.

So while miniature horses aren't included in the ADA's definition of service animals, the ADA says they must be allowed under certain circumstances, which is never the case with a pet or emotional support animal.

 

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22 hours ago, Carlos said:

 

So?  What exactly is the problem with that?

 

I don't know if there is a "problem" with 60 to 70 year old RVers pushing fluffy around the Tampa RV show in a baby buggy and talking to them like they were a 2 year old human baby.  I'm just saying it struck me as such a freak show that it was more interesting watching them then it was looking at most of the RVs on display.  

Joe & Cindy

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Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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We are long time members of Lions international. We support and contribute to the training of Service dogs.

I posted earlier that we were cast members at WDW  Hall of Presidents, Magic Kingdoms, Liberty square. HOP is a popular attraction with a large theater. The theater has an area in the rear of the theater reserved for the disabled including those who use service dogs. It is a large area but can only hold so many people. We count wheelchairs, etc and when the limit is reached  had no choice but to turn folks away to wait for the next show.

We can not  recall a problem with service animals ever but as  posted before these so call Emotional support animals were a problem  but we were obliged to admit them and sit them in the disabled area which in many cases filled up that area and we had to turn away folks with service animals.

We also spent a lot of time in Nursing homes and  recognize the  value of emotional support animals  and they could be any animal .

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

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4 hours ago, richfaa said:

We can not  recall a problem with service animals ever but as  posted before these so call Emotional support animals were a problem  but we were obliged to admit them and sit them in the disabled area which in many cases filled up that area and we had to turn away folks with service animals.

The only reason you were obliged to admit them is company policy, and the only reason they had to be seated in the disabled section was company policy.  It's a shame that people with service animals had to be turned away, but that's the company's choice.

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The hall of presidents is a large theatre seating over 700 people just like a movie theater anywhere. Wheelchairs can not be seated in the theater proper it was as I recall a safety  issue regarding being able  to exit in the event of a emergency. The wheelchairs and disabled were seated in a special area in the rear of the the theater  a few feet from the exit doors of the theater and the hall itself. The emotional support animals were not service animals and the folks using them misrepresented themselves  as disabled  preventing the disabled with a service animal  entrance.

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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