Prioritizing (aka: where should the money go)?

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Bigthinkers said:

A higher-cost system may not be worth the expense,

The most important thing here could also be your level of confidence in your water supply. If you are uncomfortable with your living conditions it will be very difficult to live happily. Sometimes it may be worth the price just for peace of mind.

1 hour ago, Bigthinkers said:

And it's the unknown until we actually get going and see how much boondocking we'll do, and for how long.

Since you will probably not find these already installed, I suggest that you not plan to do so until you learn what type of RV life you enjoy.  Consider the fact that your lifestyle change is going to be huge even if you always have utility connections. While you may find that you want to do a great deal of dry camping for extended periods, you may find that you want connections most of the time. You won't need anything more than a good battery setup to be able to stop for a night in a parking lot or truck stop, while you probably will want solar if you find that you enjoy spending weeks parked out in the desert or some other remote area. In my opinion, you need to spend some time studying the many different lifestyles before you start to buy specialized equipment for a particular way of living. If you look at the signature line of those who post here you will find links to many contributors websites or blogs where you can learn a lot about the way that person lives in his RV. When we were fulltime we never spent a great deal on RV parks, even though we rarely ever stopped without at least water & electricity. We did that because we chose to spend a lot of time as RV volunteers where we got a full hookup site for our assistance. Others, like BarbOK buy into a group like Thousand Trails to get free or reduced rates in RV parks with amenities. The list of lifestyles that people live in RVs is much too long to list here but you should take a long look at that subject before you get too far. 

[TherapyBound]

2 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

Comparing the weight and cost of a solar system and the weight and cost of a larger battery bank doesn't do you any good.  You can spend $6,000 and have some really great solar panels all over the roof of your RV, but if you still have two 12volt wet cell house batteries you aren't going to be running anything much anyway.  Remember, without being plugged in the only way you are running appliances is through the use of your battery bank and your inverter.  Solar systems and a generator are the two ways you would actually recharge those batteries.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I know the battery bank has to keep up with the solar, and vise versa, and will require an inverter. I didn't word my comment well, as I'd already indicated in a previous reply that I was aware of the requirements for a solar set-up.

[TherapyBound]

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

You won't need anything more than a good battery setup to be able to stop for a night in a parking lot or truck stop, while you probably will want solar if you find that you enjoy spending weeks parked out in the desert or some other remote area. In my opinion, you need to spend some time studying the many different lifestyles before you start to buy specialized equipment for a particular way of living.

We know for certain we'll do more than spend an overnight in a parking lot, which is why we're considering solar. A week in the desert if far more our style, but without knowing how long we can go without solar, we don't really know how much solar we would need. That's our real sticking point. 

I've spent nearly a year scouring forums and blogs, and I have some idea of what appeals to us most, but I do think until we do it ourselves we aren't going to know for sure what we need. Perhaps my first question was premature, and I should just keep saving toward what we think we'll want, then put it toward something else if we find we were looking at the wrong upgrades.

[Carlos]

It just depends on usage.  I've done ten days in the desert on batteries and a generator.  The batteries would hold for a couple days, then run a few hours of generator, repeat.  We were in the middle of nowhere, the generator can run while we go play in the Jeep or on the dirt bikes, and we didn't even need to hear it.

 

[FL-JOE]

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

It just depends on usage.  I've done ten days in the desert on batteries and a generator.  The batteries would hold for a couple days, then run a few hours of generator, repeat.  We were in the middle of nowhere, the generator can run while we go play in the Jeep or on the dirt bikes, and we didn't even need to hear it.

 

Exactly!  Really the only reason for having solar is to avoid having to run the generator to recharge batteries.  I try to run my generator every week or so anyway just because I know from experience that if I don't it won't last too long.  

To claim that you would need solar if you want to spend weeks off and on off the grid is not accurate IMHO.  It would be a nice expensive convenience, but if you have a good built in generator it certainly would not be a requirement.  

[Carlos]

 You said it Joe. I am 54 and have been RVing mostly in the boonies since 10 years old.  I have never owned or been in an RV with solar. Same with various cabin boats we have owned, which are just floating RVs 

[Al F]

4 hours ago, Bigthinkers said:

7 hours ago, Al F said:

Washer/dryer is nice.  However it adds a lot of weight to a MH which is already somewhat lacking in CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity). 

Bear in mind we're not "fulltimers" in that we're selling everything and have no home base. We'll be on the road "full time" (meaning,  not returning to a house) for at least a year, probably two, but will still have a house so we won't be bringing everything we own with us. 

You will be living in the RV, it will be your home even though you still have a sticks and bricks.  You will be taking everything with you that most fulltimers w/o a S&B do.  Which ever RV you consider buying be sure to look closely at the CCC.  The easiest way to do this, is to take any RV you are serious about to the local CAT scale at a local truck stop and weigh it.  Be sure to weigh it with both of you in it.  Estimate how much water and fuel is in the tanks.  Then compare that number to the GVWR posted in the RV.  The number you come up with is how much the CCC of that RV is.  

It is really, really easy to under estimate just how many pounds of stuff you put in an RV as you are loading it.  It goes in a little at a time.  A pair of jeans is 2 maybe 3 pounds.  Tennis shoes may approach a pound each.  Hiking boots may be 1.5 to 2 pounds each. A 14 oz can of veggies is a pound apiece.  Cooking oil spray can is a pound or more.  It all adds up quickly. 

I'm not trying to talk you out of the washer dryer.  Your statements are clear that it is a priority.  It does impact how much other stuff you can carry. 

[TherapyBound]

I guess I must be reading all the wrong blogs and forum topics then, because I got the very distinct impression one of the joys of boondocking is the quiet. It's the ability to hear the nature around you. It's not having to listen to other people's generators. And I am quite sure I've read more than once (like, dozens of times) that it's just plain common courtesy to consider your neighbors when it comes to running your generator when boondocking (editing to add, I'm not talking about places like Quartzite, where there are lots of RVs and established times when generators are okay, I'm talking about truly being out in the boonies). So now I'm confused. 

I know you CAN run a generator to keep the batteries topped up when boondocking, but nearly everything I've read says it's considered poor form to do so when there are other motorhomes nearby (more than one forum said the sound carries for up to a mile!). It's an etiquette thing more than a requirement, and it's a choice that keeps YOU from having to hear the generator when you just want to literally unplug from it all. I'm sure we'll do enough things without realizing they're newbie mistakes; I didn't want this to be one of them.

As for the washer/dryer, I know it adds weight. I know weight is limited and it won't take much to reach full weight capacity. If I weren't so firm in my reasons for making it a requirement and not a luxury, I'd be talked out of it by now! I do have an excellent reason for it being a necessity FOR ME, and that reason would stop me from going at all rather than having to go to laundromats every week or two. As I originally stated, I prefer not to go into the details. So...I'll have an RV with a washer/dryer and very happily sacrifice something else instead. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Bigthinkers

[2gypsies]

If nature and quiet are important to you then get solar.  That's why we ran solar.  We are not energy hogs.  We had 300w which was plenty for us.  However, we had a propane/electric refrigerator so we ran on propane.  We used a catalytic heater so we didn't have to use the power hog furnace.  We used a stovetop coffee pot instead of an electric.  Toast?  We buttered bread & plopped it in a fry pan.  We didn't watch t.v.; we listened to XM radio in the evening and read.  We absolutely loved sitting by a stream or lake in quiet surroundings on public lands.

We could last 10-14 days on our tanks without having to dump them.  By that time we were ready to move on anyway.

You're correct that if you find a place of solitude a generator or having someone pull in next to you using a generator would ruin it.

[Carlos]

36 minutes ago, Bigthinkers said:

I guess I must be reading all the wrong blogs and forum topics then, because I got the very distinct impression one of the joys of boondocking is the quiet. It's the ability to hear the nature around you. It's not having to listen to other people's generators.

Everyone has different standards and needs.  I think that's the point a lot of us are making.  If we're away from people, we don't worry about disturbing anyone.  And while I hate generator noise, we never just sit around camp all day, so we run it while we're away.

If it comes down to it, an hour of generator isn't going to destroy my enjoyment.

 

[TherapyBound]

8 minutes ago, Carlos said:

If it comes down to it, an hour of generator isn't going to destroy my enjoyment.

I'd ask the question, "how do neighbors feel about others running their generator when they're out in the wilderness seeking solitude") but I suspect that could get heated!

All of the responses have been helpful in focusing my mind about what is/isn't important, and I think when it comes to solar we'd be smart to tuck something away toward it, but really need to be out on the road and discovering what our needs really are, or are not.

[Carlos]

1 minute ago, Bigthinkers said:

I'd ask the question, "how do neighbors feel about others running their generator when they're out in the wilderness seeking solitude") but I suspect that could get heated!

I already answered it for the most part.

13 minutes ago, Carlos said:

If we're away from people, we don't worry about disturbing anyone. 

The secondary answer is that if WE don't want to hear a generator, we make sure to park away from other people.  Everyone has a right to run a reasonably quiet generator.  It's a different story if you're running one of those junk contractor generators. 

[sandsys]

In my last van I didn't have a generator nor LP gas so everything ran on either electricity or the fuel in my tank. BUT, that van had the ability to run the engine at high idle to recharge my batteries if the sun stayed hidden too long. I hated to do that so I was more likely to go for a drive for an hour or so--somehow the noise didn't bother me when driving but it did when sitting still. I suspect if I'd had a generator I still would have preferred to drive since I am more noise sensitive than most people--my version of your water needs.

Linda

[TherapyBound]

7 minutes ago, Carlos said:

I already answered it for the most part.

I meant I'd ask it as a general question on a separate thread, but I won't, because I think I already know where that would go! I'm aware there are strong opinions on both sides, (yes, run it, and NO. DON'T RUN IT!!) and we just want to be aware of the sensibilities of fellow travelers. 

28 minutes ago, 2gypsies said:

We could last 10-14 days on our tanks without having to dump them.  By that time we were ready to move on anyway.

You're correct that if you find a place of solitude a generator or having someone pull in next to you using a generator would ruin it.

I'm guessing that would be the upper limit of how long we'd boondock, so it's good to know what's possible and what it would take to last 10 days or so without solar. Thanks!

[Carlos]

Most parks and campgrounds have rules, and within those, I don't think anyone has room to complain.  I've been in a campground where someone's unruly kids were louder than my quiet generator, from about 150' away.  That's worse than the generator.  But during the DAY, we have to put up with some loss of quiet.

 

[TherapyBound]

 

8 minutes ago, Carlos said:

I've been in a campground where someone's unruly kids were louder than my quiet generator, from about 150' away.  That's worse than the generator. 

Hence our deep and abiding desire to boondock!

We desperately need some solitude. We also want the social nature of campgrounds. I could see doing a week (maybe!) in a campground and then at least a week dry camping. I could also see a combination such as a couple of nights in a campground and 10 days dry camping. Or, two weeks in a campground (though even typing that makes me shake a bit) and then time out in the quiet. 

Perhaps the problem I'm having is that I'm not sure I'll like CAMPGROUNDS, and THAT'S the equation I need experience with before deciding what to do about solar. I think I'll be able to tolerate it for a short time, but it's also possible I'll love it.

Thank you for challenging me on this. It's helped me to see where my mental block is. I'm not at all sure how I'll do long-term in active campgrounds.

[Carlos]

Yeah, keep an open mind.  You have no idea what you'll like until you do it.  We were also cabin boaters for over a decade (floating RV).  We thought we'd hate marina life (campground), but then loved it.  We ended up paying nearly $500/mo to keep a boat there for a long time.  I have to say though that most marinas and most boaters are better FOR US than most campgrounds and most RVers.  But you never know.

Worst mistakes I've made in my life are pre-judging how I will feel about something or how it will work out.

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Carlos

[TherapyBound]

5 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Worst mistakes I've made in my life are pre-judging how I will feel about something or how it will work out.

And that's why I have so many negotiables on my list. I know what I NEED, but I'm less sure about what I'll WANT. The replies here have helped a lot.

[Barbaraok]

3 hours ago, Bigthinkers said:

II know you CAN run a generator to keep the batteries topped up when boondocking, but nearly everything I've read says it's considered poor form to do so when there are other motorhomes nearby (more than one forum said the sound carries for up to a mile!). It's an etiquette thing more than a requirement, and it's a choice that keeps YOU from having to hear the generator when you just want to literally unplug from it all. I'm sure we'll do enough things without realizing they're newbie mistakes; I didn't want this to be one of them.

As for the washer/dryer, I know it adds weight. I know weight is limited and it won't take much to reach full weight capacity. If I weren't so firm in my reasons for making it a requirement and not a luxury, I'd be talked out of it by now! I do have an excellent reason for it being a necessity FOR ME, and that reason would stop me from going at all rather than having to go to laundromats every week or two. As I originally stated, I prefer not to go into the details. So...I'll have an RV with a washer/dryer and very happily sacrifice something else instead. 

You do know that W/D are not useful if you boondock, right.   Pay attention to size of tanks.  We are lucky we have 100 gallon fresh water, 100 gallon grey and 80 gallon black.  We can go 12 days between without batting an eye, 15 if we are really frugal with water.    Check how much water your ideal W/D uses in a typical load, then about how often you need to do a load (every other day for us).   The loads are smaller so you will need to adjust.  Look for rigs with larger tanks.  

And you can’t run W/D and air conditioning off of solar/(battery combination.  You will use your generator.  Most MH generators are not that loud.  And if no one else is around, why worry.   Even at rallies where generator hours are limited, it isn’t deafening unless someone has a real cheap contractor type generator.

Again you have a lot of things to consider.

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Barbaraok

[TherapyBound]

18 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

You do know that W/D are not useful if you boondock, right.

Yes. 

I will admit I'm surprised by your comment about having to do a load of laundry every other day, even given the tiny load size they take. I would expect to have at least a weeks worth of clothes for each of us, which means only having to do laundry every 5th or 6th day at the most. What am I missing?

(Editing to add: we travel extensively for our current work, and our wardrobes consist of quick-drying, non-wrinkling, crushable fabrics, many of which can be washed in a sink in a pinch. We spent over a month in Africa 2 years ago and only had laundry service twice during that time. The rest of the time I washed by hand. Towels and linens will be the hardest items to launder.)

I would anticipate running wash loads while in a campground or with water hook-up. I do realize it will take some pre-planning, but I'm okay with that. I'm not all that fussed about the dryer (and yes, I know how to dry clothes without a dryer ) so that won't be added time between loads. 

I have to admit, I didn't expect quite so much push-back on the washer/dryer thing. People DO full-time with washer/dryers, so I'm quite sure I'll be able to figure it out. If it's important to you, you find a way.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Bigthinkers

[Zulu]

20 minutes ago, Bigthinkers said:

I have to admit, I didn't expect quite so much push-back on the washer/dryer thing. People DO full-time with washer/dryers, so I'm quite sure I'll be able to figure it out. If it's important to you, you find a way.

Our separate Ariston washer and dryer were in our Best Purchases category. Would not be w/o them. However, we have a 105 gal water tank & a 65 gal gray tank & we never boondock.

[Kirk W]

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Bigthinkers said:

Thank you for challenging me on this. It's helped me to see where my mental block is. I'm not at all sure how I'll do long-term in active campgrounds.

Keep in mind that adult only RV parks are quite common in the more popular areas. Just as there are many different types of hotel/motel, there are just as many variations in places to stay in your RV. If you have never stayed in an RV park, how would you know what to expect?

[TherapyBound]

59 minutes ago, Zulu said:

Our separate Ariston washer and dryer were in our Best Purchases category. Would not be w/o them. However, we have a 105 gal water tank & a 65 gal gray tank & we never boondock.

But could you boondock if you wanted to? Could you go without doing laundry for 5 or 6 days if you had to? A week? Two? People do it all the time, so I'm not sure what the issue is, though I'd quite like to know.

2 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

 Keep in mind that adult only RV parks are quite common in the more popular areas. Just as there are many different types of hotel/motel, there are just as many variations in places to stay in your RV. If you have never stayed in an RV park, how would you know what to expect?

We'd like to try several different ways of overnighting, including 55 and up campgrounds, Harvest Host, BLM, National Forests, OvernightRvParking, etc. Totally open to lost of different scenarios. It's part of the fun, I think. 

And we HAVE stayed in campgrounds before, when we did a big family trip with our three boys many years ago. One of the best family vacations we've had. Our needs are different now, though, and time completely unplugged is important to us. Not every day, perhaps not even every month, but certainly as often as we decide to do it once we know what works best for us, and in theory for more than a day or two at a time. Time off the grid is an important part of what we want to do.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure why I'm defending that choice. Plenty of people have washer/dryer, plenty of people boondock, and plenty of people boondock even though they own a washer/dryer. I'm confident I can work that one out.

[Kirk W]

 

 

1

4 minutes ago, Bigthinkers said:

To be honest, I'm not quite sure why I'm defending that choice. Plenty of people have washer/dryer, plenty of people boondock, and plenty of people boondock even though they own a washer/dryer. I'm confident I can work that one out.

Please don't feel that you are defending anything as we only want to to move slowly. I agree that you can stay off grid even if you have a washer/dryer by not using them and many people do just that and they do use them when they are in a campground that has utilities. I think what most are saying is that you need to test the water before you start to add the things which are not on the RV when you buy it. I would agree that you should get an RV that has a generator and the washer/dryer. Very few RVers are out in remote areas the majority of the year, even if they regularly spend several months dry camped. But I would suggest that you do some travel in the RV before you make any big, expensive modifications. Things like the washer/dryer, water system and other things critical to comfortable living should be part of the plan while others may be optional. It is important to realize the expense involved when you start to add on extra items.

[Barbaraok]

On board W/d take a little getting use too.  First, you do everything in pairs, to keep things balanced.  So one load of jeans and a few t-shirts/polos.  One load of light colored underwear, etc.  one load for towels ( 2 bath towels, 2 hand towels),  and one load of sheets ( I actually did queen size sheets in2 loads along with bras).  That’s four loads a week for us, or every other day.   Yes we live in jeans.  We also spends summers in Pacific Northwest where it can be cold and rainy.  So also sweatshirts at times.  I’m finicky about laundry, hate schelping to laundromats.  And it isn’t the time, but if you are going to be off grid so much, then it’s something you need to weigh.  Of course we’ve done Quartzite, had to keep laundry for several days until we were somewhere with hookups, then do three loads in a row.  But that is one of the reasons that we never put on solar, because we  use the RV park as a place to sleep, and go out and explore from there.  What people are trying to suggest is that you not focus on something very expensive like solar until you’re sure you really want to be off the grid.  

It is like we got a shorter coach than I wanted because we wanted to use state parks, etc.   turns out, you cannot get in state parks easily, often they cost as much, or more, than private parks, etc, and we do much better with membership parks.  Takes time to figure out.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Barbaraok