DRV accident

[rynosback]

1 hour ago, house said:

curious where the facebook discussion for this

It is in the DRV owners group on FB.

[mrchips]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 5:18 PM, GeorgiaHybrid said:

So you have actually examined the trailer, truck, hitch and sidewinder? I wouldn't have thought you could have examined all of them, did a structural analysis, had the various materials tested in a lab for adherence to ASTM and ANSI standards in this short period of time.

I don't have to do all the analytical stuff. the main cause is very evident. The sub causes I am sure are many and no one will ever know. EVERY major accident is a result of many subsequent small issues with one root cause. Are the truck, pin box, traffic, driver, driver input and actions, brakes all sub-factors in this, absolutely. but I can say that one specific weakness allowed all of these sub-parts to cause the major incident.

Why is it that everyone wants to blame? Why can't everyone just wait on the facts, if Leon decides to share and be thankful no one was hurt and no other damages occurred? 

I am not defending a single thing EXCEPT wrong assumptions and Leon and Anita. 

[mrchips]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 5:36 PM, rpsinc said:

Easy on the barb throwing.  

Surely there is a message of the importance of safety in our activities of towing these big trailers down the highways.  Even with the greatest attention to safety and SOPs, ACCIDENTS do happen, and sometimes others can influence the outcome.  We can learn many things to help each of us by listening to the comments of others, as our individual circumstances are unique to each of us.

Thank you. Everyone needs to calm down, stop assuming they know what happened, stop blaming this part or that and be thankful we didn't lose an RVer and his family and no one else on the road was hurt. 

[mrchips]

14 hours ago, Big5er said:

Sir? Wow, I thought that was my dad's name. So tell me mrchips, exactly what did I say that was incorrect?  
{This I gotta hear...)

Well, I will apologize, I went back and re-read your post and I did read it incorrectly. So with that my apologies. Yes, the hitch failed, and yes there were a multitude of causes. But I assure, if you look at his 308 and my 308 side by side, you will easily know why it failed, regardless of the multitude of possible causes.  I am just so tired of the finger pointing I read your post too fast, again I apologize.

As for the Sir, that was a respect. I don't know you, nor do I know your name. I was raised with Sir and Ma'am as a respect. I spent 25 years in the military where respect is given until the need for revocation.  If you wish disrespect instead I can probably manage that as well.....LOL

[phoenix2013]

9 hours ago, rickeieio said:

If only we knew a person who was an expert in accident reconstruction, near Houston.😉

I'm pretty certain that the insurance company is already looking at this event with a jaundice eye figuring out how many others they can "invite to the party" before or after they shell out tens of thousands of dollars, or more. If it encounters "resistance to the invitations" I'm sure lawyers will come out of the woodwork. The facebook crowd on the other forums is not a very good platform to have a "re-construction" discussion, it's full of apologists, do it yourselves, social influencers and people who like to hear the sound of their voice (print wise), but that's typical of those platforms. Note also that these "discussions" seem to go away after a day or two and you can't find them, which is probably a good thing in most instances.

I find more kindred spirits on this forum in folks with engineering or technical backgrounds who can have a calm discussion based on observable facts, research and personal experience, so I am going to throw few things out to "get things going".

1. If it was the jaw on the Comfort Ride that failed (I said if, because I have not seen a picture of it and it was just a statement from someone), it is not necessarily the fault of that jaw, I would venture further that it "might not have had a choice" but to fail.

2. I would further venture that DRV and the Sidewinder contributed significantly to that failure.

3. There is a good possibility that if another set up such as this goes down the road, this failure will happen again. 

If the reaction to these statements is a "flame out" we can stop right now. If these is curiosity we can continue.

[SuiteSuccess]

I echo that I am happy Leon and Anita are okay.  The potential for catastrophe was there.  Material things can be replaced, lives cannot be.  Saying that and expanding on Phoenix’s thread, not only should we analyze the events but learn from them.  My opinions only follow,  but I’ll bet there’s not a RV hauler builder out there that knows the true science of the dynamic forces these large trucks and larger and heavier trailers manifest in “unusual “ circumstances.  Henry may have gotten some data years ago when he built a “strain gauge pin” to try to collect data on some forces but it was limited and under normal circumstances.  When Boeing builds a new wing, they stress it to failure and have the data.  Does ET, Comfort Ride, Trailersaver, etc. have the same rigorous testing and data?  Have they tested to failure?  I’m not dissing them just saying that testing to failure is expensive and maybe not feasible. The data we have is mostly anecdotal and based on AFTER the fact failure.  Leon’s accident does not say Comfort Ride is a bad hitch.  Henry’s picture of a bus crashing into the rear of a trailer and an ET surviving does not say the ET is the best hitch.  For me having based my adult professional life based on scientific evidence, I would like to see a non biased, objective discussion on how far we CAN or SHOULD go with our builds.  Should a 40,000 lb/ 10,000 lb pin weight hitch be built and put on a hauler that is untested?  These are the questions I have and through which I learn.  

[spindrift]

Does anyone know exactly what the failures were?

[mrchips]

1 hour ago, phoenix2013 said:

I'm pretty certain that the insurance company is already looking at this event with a jaundice eye figuring out how many others they can "invite to the party" before or after they shell out tens of thousands of dollars, or more. If it encounters "resistance to the invitations" I'm sure lawyers will come out of the woodwork. The facebook crowd on the other forums is not a very good platform to have a "re-construction" discussion, it's full of apologists, do it yourselves, social influencers and people who like to hear the sound of their voice (print wise), but that's typical of those platforms. Note also that these "discussions" seem to go away after a day or two and you can't find them, which is probably a good thing in most instances.

I find more kindred spirits on this forum in folks with engineering or technical backgrounds who can have a calm discussion based on observable facts, research and personal experience, so I am going to throw few things out to "get things going".

1. If it was the jaw on the Comfort Ride that failed (I said if, because I have not seen a picture of it and it was just a statement from someone), it is not necessarily the fault of that jaw, I would venture further that it "might not have had a choice" but to fail.

2. I would further venture that DRV and the Sidewinder contributed significantly to that failure.

3. There is a good possibility that if another set up such as this goes down the road, this failure will happen again. 

If the reaction to these statements is a "flame out" we can stop right now. If these is curiosity we can continue.

1. No, the jaw did not fail per se. Both jaws are 100% in tact, both jaw pins are 100% in tact, following the accident, the handle was in the locked position and secured. But yes, the jaw failed in that it released the trailer.

2. It would be hard to dispute that Lippert (frame maker) as well as the Sidewinder contributed, but many other factors could have also contributed. I will say the only damage occurred on the frame or the Sidewinder was caused from hitting the pavement and truck and sliding, and the trailer was towed by the sidewinder and the frame to impound without incident. 

3. you are 100% correct in that IF the exact hitch and exact same set up were rolling down the road there is a very good possibility the same would or could happen. However, with that being said, I doubt you will find the EXACT set up and I am referring to the hitch itself in this statement. 

Leon nor Anita have blamed anyone, any company or any product in this. They have turned off all comments on FB when it went south. The FB engineers and some on here have continually turned things into finger pointing, or what product is better than the other. That is the part that has angered me. Should I have jumped in, maybe not. But you will not find a single place I have slandered anyone or any product and I will not. I will do my best to squish ridiculousness and comments and opinions I know to be incorrect. I have always asked for the facts to be let heard and to let the insurance do what they need to do. To my knowledge Leon has pulled all pictures of the hitch and is awaiting further insurance instructions. We have pieced together what failed and the events that took place. We nor anyone will ever know all of the root causes. But I will go back to a statement I have made. if my hitch and Leon's hitch were laying side by side it would be very obvious what the differences are and how this most likely occurred. And we both have a CR 308 hitch. 

Torque caused his hitch to fail, given the same torque and conditions mine would not have suffered the same fate I am positive.

Edited May 14, 2019 by mrchips

[SuiteSuccess]

Mr Chips,

I am puzzled by your last statement.  Would you feel free to elaborate?

[CrazyCooter]

One obvious fact I'm surprised has not been pointed out here is that there appears to not be a Sidewinder rated for the GVWR of the towed unit? DRV lists the GVWR of the tri-axle models as TBD, but the larger tandems models are well north of the 19K.....The rating of the heaviest Sidewinder I see listed on Reese's site. Then add the weight of the swivel trailer with whatever was on it........

Lots of factors to consider here!

[mrchips]

3 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Mr Chips,

I am puzzled by your last statement.  Would you feel free to elaborate?

I can't at the moment as I have assured Leon I would not disclose details until the insurance is done with everything they need and he has said it is ok. I hope you understand. Believe me, I wish the pictures and facts were out. 

[SuiteSuccess]

31 minutes ago, mrchips said:

I can't at the moment as I have assured Leon I would not disclose details until the insurance is done with everything they need and he has said it is ok. I hope you understand. Believe me, I wish the pictures and facts were out. 

No problem.  Interesting topic.  Will wait for updates. 😊

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

3 hours ago, CrazyCooter said:

One obvious fact I'm surprised has not been pointed out here is that there appears to not be a Sidewinder rated for the GVWR of the towed unit? DRV lists the GVWR of the tri-axle models as TBD, but the larger tandems models are well north of the 19K.....The rating of the heaviest Sidewinder I see listed on Reese's site. Then add the weight of the swivel trailer with whatever was on it........

Lots of factors to consider here!

Our 2017 DRV Memphis GVWR is 24000lbs.  Ours is a year or 2 newer than the unit Leon had just bought.  Weight rating should be the same.  

 

On another note-

We don't know the events that precluded the separating of the truck and trailer.  If they have a dash cam, it hasn't been publicly shown yet.  Did Leon (or Anita) have to make an abrupt lane change due to other vehicles?  Was there a hard braking application?  Was there a combination of the 2?  Did the highway lane surface set up a sway event that intensified due to uneven lanes?

 

[Jim & Wilma]

4 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

No problem.  Interesting topic.  Will wait for updates. 😊

Also interested. With great difficulty have resisted offering my “wisdom”. Look forward to seeing the hitch photos and the sequence of events leading to loss of the fifth wheel. 

[lpkirby]

Hi everyone,
Leon here.  The insurance company just finished totaling out the DRV yesterday and I am still waiting on the truck estimate.  So I am going to wait until everything is resolved before I post a ton more pictures.  Here is what I have said from the beginning.
We were on I-10 on the west side of Houston and I had a tractor and trailer next to me on the left.  When the truck passed me a small car shot between it and my front end.  I applied the brakes to disable the cruise control.  We heard a pop then felt something slam into the back of us and then pushed the Volvo sideways. I reached and applied the trailer brake which is a DirecLink brake controller, the RV shook violently side to side and hit the right wall on the rear end then traveled across all lanes and hit the far left wall then bounced off of it.  Speed at the time was about 50 mph or so with traffic. The pin on the pin box popped up and over the hitch and got hung up on the front of the plate until I applied the brake controller. Once the trailer separated the brake away was pulled but it still took several seconds to stop the 5th wheel.
Once everything is done and over with I promise to post pictures of the hitch, the pinbox and the cause although it is going to be difficult to decided what failed first.
Thanks everyone for the well wishes and the thoughts and prayers for our safety. 

Thank you,

Leon

[alan0043]

Hi Leon,

Glad to hear you and your wife were not hurt. Are you spending the summer in Ohio this year ?

Al

[rickeieio]

Sooo, any news?