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rickeieio

Winch capacity......

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Today we loaded the "new" smart (2016), and my bride declared she doesn't like the DCT for driving up the ramps.  She never flinched loading the "old"  (2013) car.  

So, I'm investigating winches.  My plan is to get a winch with at least a 50% overkill factor.  My issue is, I don't know how to calculate the "pull" needed to briong a 1800# car , plus driver, up a ramp with a 3-1 slope.

I'll mount the winch to the tow eye provided with the car, so no rollers, fairleads, or fancy fixtures will be necessary. (Thanks for the idea, Darryl.)   I know, there's only one tow eye.  Not concerned about it. Given that the tow eye is designed to pull out a stuck vehicle, I'm counting on it being robust enough for this task.

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Here is a link to the math.  I took their course about 25 years ago and I had forgotten most of it.  Keep in mind the winch rating is for the first wrap of rope and decreases as you add layers.  Since there is little difference in price between two and three thousand pound winches I would suggest the larger.  I’m always a little suspect on Chinese ratings.  http://certifiedtowtraining.wreckmaster.com/blog/how-to-calculate-resistance-for-towing-recovery

 

Nigel

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Herrin put a Warn 4000 lb winch on my truck and it is more than adequate.  To help somewhat, I use a snatch block on the back of the car which cuts the winching up speed in half but makes it a lot less jerky.

My rig has a wireless remote, hardwired remote and a switch on the winch itself.

My recollection was about 700 lbs pull ish.

It's worked fine for 6 years.

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Thanks guys.  It appears that I  "need" about a 1000# winch, so a 2000# would do nicely.  But, more is always better, and doesn't increase the price much......

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Mounting it the way you have planned, it's easy to get carried away with what will fit on the bed of the truck. We've got a 3500#, but have seen 4500# winches around the same price, lately. Definitely get the synthetic cable, not steel.

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My preliminary plan is to mount a square tube on the bed, so as to be directly under the pull point, and oriented so that I can slip another longer tube inside to extend my anchor several feet out in front of the car when it reaches the chocks.  The winch will be fastened to the pull ring.  That way, I can sit in the car and steer, corded controller in hand.  Or, Susan can sit in the car, and I can walk ahead.

 

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Just a thought but a 12k winch from Harbor Freight is under $300. Should you put it on a removable mount and your rig ever gets stuck, you can move it to the truck and use it to pull yourself free...

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4 hours ago, Black said:

Just a thought but a 12k winch from Harbor Freight is under $300. Should you put it on a removable mount and your rig ever gets stuck, you can move it to the truck and use it to pull yourself free...

Hahahahaha! I  told you. ;)

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One thing to keep in mind with your mounting plan, is stability and swiveling. Make sure the mount is steady enough that any wiggle won't hit the bodywork. 

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6 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Make sure the mount is steady enough that any wiggle won't hit the bodywork. 

Yup, that's the one thing that has me puzzled.  The rest is simple.

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Two mounts. That's the easy way out. Ours is dead stable.

ETA: The cable moving side to side fights your attempt to hold the winch steady, as it passes across the center of the mounting point.

Edited by Darryl&Rita

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Problem is that the 2016/17 smarts only have one place for the tow eye. And the way we load, I need to pull on from the front.  I'm trying to eliminate ALL frame work, rollers, pulleys etc.  

I'll be in Crossville tomorrow, and I understand there might be some clever folks there.  This might make for some good campfire conversation.🤔

Perhaps I'm overlooking the obvious......  The reason a winch is desired, is that the old smart had a "hill hold" feature, and the newer model does not.  Plus, the pedals are too close to "two foot" it.  Maybe I should just fab up a brake pedal extension?  That oughta take at least 5 minutes.

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2 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Problem is that the 2016/17 smarts only have one place for the tow eye. And the way we load, I need to pull on from the front.  I'm trying to eliminate ALL frame work, rollers, pulleys etc.  

I'll be in Crossville tomorrow, and I understand there might be some clever folks there.  This might make for some good campfire conversation.🤔

Perhaps I'm overlooking the obvious......  The reason a winch is desired, is that the old smart had a "hill hold" feature, and the newer model does not.  Plus, the pedals are too close to "two foot" it.  Maybe I should just fab up a brake pedal extension?  That oughta take at least 5 minutes.

If you have time check out Jack's video of loading a new smart, You don't use the brake to stop you have to use the park brake to control the brakes, as when you push the regular brake pedal it puts the trans in neutral, I load mine this way without any problems.

See ya at the rally, we can discuss this in more detail.

Roger

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3 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Problem is that the 2016/17 smarts only have one place for the tow eye.

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A hitch can be made for the 17's, I did it 2.5 yrs ago.

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I used the parking brake with success.  My wife tried it and said it didn't hold.  We'll see......

Rear hitch is not an option for us.

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I thought there was a place for the eye on the other side, just no cut out in the bumper. I may be mistaken as I am getting older and my wife didn’t tell me what to type. 

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There was 1 eye. But on the other side after pulling parts off there was backing plenty strong enough to put in another eye with a longer shaft if that's the way you want to go.

This was done by a friend at the Smart Dealership who is also a welder.

This 2017 is center pull, with the hitch  slightly offset from  the A frame so parts don't clash.  The first pics are the '07  with single pull.  The white and red car is the '17 with the center hitch and snatch block.  The A frame had some extensions welded on to stand it off the side of the truck.  It just barely fits into the passengers side outside storage box with the xtra water containers.

The hitch also carries the bike rack plus it doesn't come out from under the  car, no clearance lost.

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I load ours using parking brake. Works great. I am thinking on building a loader for mine. Ramps are too much for DW and if something happens to me she couldn't. 

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Glenn- have a gander at AmeriDeck loaders for pickups for geometry ideas. I have an older one that will load 2000lbs on the deck. 

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Thanks. Have in my head what should work. Got to get it on paper. Don't have fancy cads  like some of you guys do. Basically a sliding ramp within a sliding ramp. The car weight should tilt it down. Use winch to operate. 

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Yep Glenn that will work. 

Unloading by backing and tipping the teeter totter will have great OMG factor at the campgrounds...

I use CAD* once in a while ... that and TME**

*Cardboard Aided Design 

**Tape Measure Engineering 

 

Edited by noteven

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We use the Warn VRX 45 with synthetic line. We used the 4000 before that. The 4000 has some issues - not reliable in our experience. We had several burn out on us. The 4500 is much better, IMO and costs about the same.  The link is just for convenience - you can find them cheaper.

I've used lighter winches, and I've also done the math. Don't do it - my opinion. They will not last. Again, just my experience. 

There are other brands out there cheaper than Warn, so don't assume that is the only choice. But you DO WANT synthetic line. Do not use steel cable. It is somewhat dangerous, and you will regret it.  Again, my opinion based on significant experience.

There is no problem driving up if you do it correctly. But you have to do it right or you will impact the clutch. 

If you want a second pull point on the back, we can weld one in.....

 

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