rickeieio Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Today we loaded the "new" smart (2016), and my bride declared she doesn't like the DCT for driving up the ramps. She never flinched loading the "old" (2013) car. So, I'm investigating winches. My plan is to get a winch with at least a 50% overkill factor. My issue is, I don't know how to calculate the "pull" needed to briong a 1800# car , plus driver, up a ramp with a 3-1 slope. I'll mount the winch to the tow eye provided with the car, so no rollers, fairleads, or fancy fixtures will be necessary. (Thanks for the idea, Darryl.) I know, there's only one tow eye. Not concerned about it. Given that the tow eye is designed to pull out a stuck vehicle, I'm counting on it being robust enough for this task. Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 In an old post somewhere, Henry had done the math. Maybe he'll reply on this. Quote Alie & Jim + 8 paws 2017 DRV Memphis BART- 1998 Volvo 610 Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Here is a link to the math. I took their course about 25 years ago and I had forgotten most of it. Keep in mind the winch rating is for the first wrap of rope and decreases as you add layers. Since there is little difference in price between two and three thousand pound winches I would suggest the larger. I’m always a little suspect on Chinese ratings. http://certifiedtowtraining.wreckmaster.com/blog/how-to-calculate-resistance-for-towing-recovery Nigel Quote 2006 Volvo VNL 430, 2006 smart cabrio cdi, 2000 Triple E Topaz 30' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdickinson Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Herrin put a Warn 4000 lb winch on my truck and it is more than adequate. To help somewhat, I use a snatch block on the back of the car which cuts the winching up speed in half but makes it a lot less jerky. My rig has a wireless remote, hardwired remote and a switch on the winch itself. My recollection was about 700 lbs pull ish. It's worked fine for 6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Thanks guys. It appears that I "need" about a 1000# winch, so a 2000# would do nicely. But, more is always better, and doesn't increase the price much...... Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Mounting it the way you have planned, it's easy to get carried away with what will fit on the bed of the truck. We've got a 3500#, but have seen 4500# winches around the same price, lately. Definitely get the synthetic cable, not steel. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 My preliminary plan is to mount a square tube on the bed, so as to be directly under the pull point, and oriented so that I can slip another longer tube inside to extend my anchor several feet out in front of the car when it reaches the chocks. The winch will be fastened to the pull ring. That way, I can sit in the car and steer, corded controller in hand. Or, Susan can sit in the car, and I can walk ahead. Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Just a thought but a 12k winch from Harbor Freight is under $300. Should you put it on a removable mount and your rig ever gets stuck, you can move it to the truck and use it to pull yourself free... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Black said: Just a thought but a 12k winch from Harbor Freight is under $300. Should you put it on a removable mount and your rig ever gets stuck, you can move it to the truck and use it to pull yourself free... Hahahahaha! I told you. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 One thing to keep in mind with your mounting plan, is stability and swiveling. Make sure the mount is steady enough that any wiggle won't hit the bodywork. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 6 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said: Make sure the mount is steady enough that any wiggle won't hit the bodywork. Yup, that's the one thing that has me puzzled. The rest is simple. Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) Two mounts. That's the easy way out. Ours is dead stable. ETA: The cable moving side to side fights your attempt to hold the winch steady, as it passes across the center of the mounting point. Edited April 25, 2019 by Darryl&Rita Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdickinson Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Problem is that the 2016/17 smarts only have one place for the tow eye. And the way we load, I need to pull on from the front. I'm trying to eliminate ALL frame work, rollers, pulleys etc. I'll be in Crossville tomorrow, and I understand there might be some clever folks there. This might make for some good campfire conversation.🤔 Perhaps I'm overlooking the obvious...... The reason a winch is desired, is that the old smart had a "hill hold" feature, and the newer model does not. Plus, the pedals are too close to "two foot" it. Maybe I should just fab up a brake pedal extension? That oughta take at least 5 minutes. Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewhoknowslittle Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 hours ago, rickeieio said: Problem is that the 2016/17 smarts only have one place for the tow eye. And the way we load, I need to pull on from the front. I'm trying to eliminate ALL frame work, rollers, pulleys etc. I'll be in Crossville tomorrow, and I understand there might be some clever folks there. This might make for some good campfire conversation.🤔 Perhaps I'm overlooking the obvious...... The reason a winch is desired, is that the old smart had a "hill hold" feature, and the newer model does not. Plus, the pedals are too close to "two foot" it. Maybe I should just fab up a brake pedal extension? That oughta take at least 5 minutes. If you have time check out Jack's video of loading a new smart, You don't use the brake to stop you have to use the park brake to control the brakes, as when you push the regular brake pedal it puts the trans in neutral, I load mine this way without any problems. See ya at the rally, we can discuss this in more detail. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdickinson Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 3 hours ago, rickeieio said: Problem is that the 2016/17 smarts only have one place for the tow eye. A hitch can be made for the 17's, I did it 2.5 yrs ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I used the parking brake with success. My wife tried it and said it didn't hold. We'll see...... Rear hitch is not an option for us. Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronbo Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I thought there was a place for the eye on the other side, just no cut out in the bumper. I may be mistaken as I am getting older and my wife didn’t tell me what to type. Quote Ron C. 2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3 2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdickinson Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 There was 1 eye. But on the other side after pulling parts off there was backing plenty strong enough to put in another eye with a longer shaft if that's the way you want to go. This was done by a friend at the Smart Dealership who is also a welder. This 2017 is center pull, with the hitch slightly offset from the A frame so parts don't clash. The first pics are the '07 with single pull. The white and red car is the '17 with the center hitch and snatch block. The A frame had some extensions welded on to stand it off the side of the truck. It just barely fits into the passengers side outside storage box with the xtra water containers. The hitch also carries the bike rack plus it doesn't come out from under the car, no clearance lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I load ours using parking brake. Works great. I am thinking on building a loader for mine. Ramps are too much for DW and if something happens to me she couldn't. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted April 26, 2019 Report Share Posted April 26, 2019 Glenn- have a gander at AmeriDeck loaders for pickups for geometry ideas. I have an older one that will load 2000lbs on the deck. Quote "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted April 26, 2019 Report Share Posted April 26, 2019 Thanks. Have in my head what should work. Got to get it on paper. Don't have fancy cads like some of you guys do. Basically a sliding ramp within a sliding ramp. The car weight should tilt it down. Use winch to operate. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) Yep Glenn that will work. Unloading by backing and tipping the teeter totter will have great OMG factor at the campgrounds... I use CAD* once in a while ... that and TME** *Cardboard Aided Design **Tape Measure Engineering Edited April 27, 2019 by noteven Quote "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mayer Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 We use the Warn VRX 45 with synthetic line. We used the 4000 before that. The 4000 has some issues - not reliable in our experience. We had several burn out on us. The 4500 is much better, IMO and costs about the same. The link is just for convenience - you can find them cheaper. I've used lighter winches, and I've also done the math. Don't do it - my opinion. They will not last. Again, just my experience. There are other brands out there cheaper than Warn, so don't assume that is the only choice. But you DO WANT synthetic line. Do not use steel cable. It is somewhat dangerous, and you will regret it. Again, my opinion based on significant experience. There is no problem driving up if you do it correctly. But you have to do it right or you will impact the clutch. If you want a second pull point on the back, we can weld one in..... Quote Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member Living on the road since 2000PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail 2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it) 2022 New Horizons 43' 5er 2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units 2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck -------------------------------------------------------------------------See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar powerwww.jackdanmayer.com Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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