USPS-Surprise,AZ-new Gotcha

[Carlos]

I'm never surprised by idiocy in Surprise.  People there in general just seem to be awful.  I made the mistake of going there a couple weeks ago for a vehicle title change.  The wait time shown on the ADOT site was nine minutes, turned out to be 50.  While I was paying, someone ran into my motorcycle and sent it flying across the space.  On the way out someone called me an a-hole for going out the in door because she was blocking the out door--for no reason.  Only about 17 people tried to kill me on my bike while I rode what was left of it home.

And this makes the post office there look like a good time.

 

[rpsinc]

Its not only in Surprise.  In '05 we moved to a 35K population town, unincorporated at the time but with a nice small PO.  We got a PO Box as we did not want mail delivered to our residence(rural and without a mailbox).  We were directed to fill out the proper form for permanent mail forwarding from our home address to our PO Box.  We did this.  A little over a year later, we get a call from a customer that got their payment check returned(I'm a self-employed contractor).  Took the matter up with the PO and learned that "PERMAMENT" mail forwarding, as the form is called, is ONLY GOOD FOR 1 YEAR.  They forced us to put a mailbox in, and low and behold, someone hit it with a car.  Had to reinstall it.  

I dont know why the USPS writes guidelines that they dont follow.  Permanent should be permanent until the author decides to change it, oh, wait, yes I did say author because I dont think they understand that I am their CUSTOMER.  I feel more like a hostage.

[Barbaraok]

Mail forwarding has always been only for a year.  Why hadn’t you notified your clients of your PO Box?  

[rpsinc]

16 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

Mail forwarding has always been only for a year.  Why hadn’t you notified your clients of your PO Box?  

They were notified and so were the renters.  But things happen.  Mail forwarding may have always been for a year, but the document I filled out was called PERMANENT Mail Forward.  Why doesnt the USPS change their form to reflect what they do?  Seems so typical of what government does too often.

[Barbaraok]

Actually, it is a permanent forwarding for the nest year while you establish your new residence.  Temporary forwarding is for 6 months ONLY.    Most states require you to declare residency after 6 months.  AZ is different in that they give you 7 months.  

Not sure I can find fault with the Post Office, did you expect forwarding forever?

[pjstough]

16 hours ago, rpsinc said:

Its not only in Surprise.  In '05 we moved to a 35K population town, unincorporated at the time but with a nice small PO.  We got a PO Box as we did not want mail delivered to our residence(rural and without a mailbox).  We were directed to fill out the proper form for permanent mail forwarding from our home address to our PO Box.  We did this.  A little over a year later, we get a call from a customer that got their payment check returned(I'm a self-employed contractor).  Took the matter up with the PO and learned that "PERMAMENT" mail forwarding, as the form is called, is ONLY GOOD FOR 1 YEAR.  They forced us to put a mailbox in, and low and behold, someone hit it with a car.  Had to reinstall it.  

I dont know why the USPS writes guidelines that they dont follow.  Permanent should be permanent until the author decides to change it, oh, wait, yes I did say author because I dont think they understand that I am their CUSTOMER.  I feel more like a hostage.

Yes, a permanent forward is for a year, in months 13 to18, I believe the mail is returned to sender and the sender is provided the new address if the sender requests so on the mail piece. If no such request for the new address is asked for by the sender, the mailpiece is returned to sender marked as "FOE", Forwarding order Expired". During the one year forwarding period, the customer is expected to contact people they do business with and provide them their new address. If you had read the Change of Address form you would have known this. 

As far a putting up a mailbox at your residence, the USPS can not, to my knowledge, force you to do that.

Yes, you are their customer, but you dont get to make the rules.

Edited April 4, 2019 by pjstough

[Kirk W]

14 hours ago, rpsinc said:

the document I filled out was called PERMANENT Mail Forward.  Why doesnt the USPS change their form to reflect what they do?

This quote is from the instructions found on the Permanent Mail Forwarding request form.

Quote

Permanent Mail Forwarding. When you sign up for "permanent" mail forwarding, your mail is not forwarded permanently. It is merely an indication that you movedpermanently. The USPS will forward your mail for one year after your request and will return your mail for 6 months afterwards.Aug 31, 2017

 

[SWharton]

This thread is getting off-track!!!!

[Barbaraok]

Not really.   Still about how mail is handled, etc.   I think everyone has had occasion to wonder  about how mail is handled by USPS.

 

[Carlos]

And most people seem to be Surprised.

 

[pjstough]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Not really.   Still about how mail is handled, etc.   I think everyone has had occasion to wonder  about how mail is handled by USPS.

 

That includes me, and I worked for the USPS for 28 1/2 years.

[remoandiris]

What I love is filling out the mail "hold" or "forward" forms, either online or hard copy, and the mail NOT being held or forwarded.  What a joy that is.  

Oh, it is updated "in the system", yet the mail is STILL going to the old address.  Wow.

[pjstough]

13 minutes ago, remoandiris said:

What I love is filling out the mail "hold" or "forward" forms, either online or hard copy, and the mail NOT being held or forwarded.  What a joy that is.  

Oh, it is updated "in the system", yet the mail is STILL going to the old address.  Wow.

Yes, the USPS still makes mistakes, and one is too many, but when I worked there I always said, "When God makes perfect people, I hope the USPS get the first 700,00."  The number of employees has been reduced by about 100,000 since then, but still no perfect ones.

Also, about 13 years ago the USPS changed how it did mail forwarding. Before the change, all mail that was to be forwarded was sent to the post office and route it was originally to be delivered, and the carrier was responsible for holding out the mail that was to be forwarded, give it to a clerk where the clerk added the new address, and he mailpiece was put back into the mail stream, however, since the change and automation, a piece of mail that is to be forwarded is caught when it is first scanned into the USPS system, the new address placed on it, and then goes directly to the new address which saves quite a bit of time, and makes forwarding more efficient.

[sandsys]

Then there's the time our daughter was coming for a visit so she had a critical piece of mail addressed to her at our address. Our helpful carrier knew no one by that name lived there so he sent it back. 

And the time a postmaster sent our General Delivery mail back because she had not received a notice that we would be coming.

Linda

Edited April 4, 2019 by sandsys

[pjstough]

5 minutes ago, sandsys said:

Then there's the time our daughter was coming for a visit so she had a critical piece of mail addressed to her at our address. Our helpful carrier knew no one by that name lived there so he sent it back. 

And the time a postmaster sent our General Delivery mail back because she had not received a notice that we would be coming.

Linda

Did your daughter have the mail addressed with her name C/O your name, or had you informed the USPS that she would be getting mail at your house?  That would be the proper way to have had it addressed, or had the USPS carrier known to expect mail for her, it should have been delivered.  If it was not addressed that way, or the USPS was not informed she would be getting mail at your house, how was the USPS supposed to know it went to your house, and not someone who have moved away a long time ago, or was simply misaddressed?

[hemsteadc]

I've had  my mail delivered by a neighbor almost as much as the carrier.  Especially when the regular carrier is out sick.

[rpsinc]

1 hour ago, pjstough said:

Did your daughter have the mail addressed with her name C/O your name, or had you informed the USPS that she would be getting mail at your house?  That would be the proper way to have had it addressed, or had the USPS carrier known to expect mail for her, it should have been delivered.  If it was not addressed that way, or the USPS was not informed she would be getting mail at your house, how was the USPS supposed to know it went to your house, and not someone who have moved away a long time ago, or was simply misaddressed?

Unfortunately logic is not a skill that is a part of most people job description.  I understand how things SHOULD be done, and yes I communicated with the PM at my PO several times about how they made me put a mailbox in because they wouldnt continue forwarding my mail sent to the house address.  

But the other side of the comment above is we still get mail addressed to the person using our PO Box # before us, and we've been renting that box for almost 15 years.  No logic in that.  But on the other side, I see how many pieces are handled daily and I get that things happen, people arent perfect and mistakes are made.  But as a small business owner, it COSTS me when me or my employees make a mistake.  I dont know if those similar consequences apply elsewhere, whether USPS or not.

Better work ethics need to be taught and implemented as well as rewarded so that we can turn some of the lax attitudes around.  We all can do individually and then provide better examples of what should be done.

[2gypsies]

When you think of the thousands and thousands of mail handled daily, personally, I think the post office does a great job!  Just in reading this some mistakes are due to the person not following directions or not addressing properly. You can't blame the post office for everything.

[pjstough]

11 minutes ago, rpsinc said:

Unfortunately logic is not a skill that is a part of most people job description.  I understand how things SHOULD be done, and yes I communicated with the PM at my PO several times about how they made me put a mailbox in because they wouldnt continue forwarding my mail sent to the house address.  

But the other side of the comment above is we still get mail addressed to the person using our PO Box # before us, and we've been renting that box for almost 15 years.  No logic in that.  But on the other side, I see how many pieces are handled daily and I get that things happen, people arent perfect and mistakes are made.  But as a small business owner, it COSTS me when me or my employees make a mistake.  I dont know if those similar consequences apply elsewhere, whether USPS or not.

Better work ethics need to be taught and implemented as well as rewarded so that we can turn some of the lax attitudes around.  We all can do individually and then provide better examples of what should be done.

OK, now I understand, I think.  You had your mail forwarded to your house address, but wanted your mail delivered to a post office box number. You should have had your mail forwarded to you P O box, and not you house address.

[pjstough]

3 minutes ago, 2gypsies said:

When you think of the thousands and thousands of mail handled daily, personally, I think the post office does a great job!  Just in reading this some mistakes are due to the person not following directions or not addressing properly. You can't blame the post office for everything.

The Postal Service adds 4,071 addresses to our delivery network every day. Each day the Postal Service processes and delivers 187.8 million pieces of First-Class Mail. On average, the Postal Service processes 20.2 million mailpieces each hour, 336,649 each minute and 5,611 each second.

A day in the life | Postal Facts - U.S. Postal Service

 

https://facts.usps.com/one-day/

[rpsinc]

On 4/3/2019 at 3:12 PM, rpsinc said:

In '05 we moved to a 35K population town, unincorporated at the time but with a nice small PO.  We got a PO Box as we did not want mail delivered to our residence(rural and without a mailbox).

No, you have it backwards.  See the post from earlier: 

On 4/3/2019 at 3:12 PM, rpsinc said:

In '05 we moved to a 35K population town, unincorporated at the time but with a nice small PO.  We got a PO Box as we did not want mail delivered to our residence(rural and without a mailbox).

 

[Randyretired]

Forwarding mail has frequently caused us problems.  We often forward our mail for a few months each year and we are to the point where we just expect trouble.  Some years we come home to find our mail box full of mail that should have been forwarded.  This year we called the post office to hold our mail and sent in a card.  The mail was delivered instead of held.  Often mail that should have been forwarded is returned to sender.  For a number of years our house tax bill was returned as undeliverable.  One year after we returned home and stopped the forwarding the mail resumed for a week but then stopped.  The carrier mistakenly thought our mail was still forwarded.  When we met him at the post office he accused us of not removing the forwarding until another person at the post office showed him the order.  Our bank sent the statement with some instructions not to be forwarded.  It was returned along with a second notice.  When the second notice was returned the bank froze our account.  We changed to online statements to get around that.  We have had some other serious problems with mail but we are learning to deal with it.  Delivering mail day after day seems to be their strength but changes can be problematic. 

[pjstough]

You reminded me of a point I hadnt thought about in a while and that is some mailers dont want the mail they send forwarded and it will say something like "Do Not Forward Return to Sender" on the mail piece, so even if you have a good forwarding order the mail piece is returned to sender.

Edited April 5, 2019 by pjstough

[sandsys]

8 hours ago, pjstough said:

how was the USPS supposed to know it went to your house, and not someone who have moved away a long time ago, or was simply misaddressed?

Over the years we have received plenty of mail for people who'd moved plus misaddressed mail and we delt with all of those properly. The one critical one was the one they decided not to deliver. To quote a popular song of the 1970s "Some kind of help if the kind of help we could all do without."

[pjstough]

I think it would be great if the USPS gave tours so people could see how things work, and what it is like to be a carrier.