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Roadtrek 1

How many years on average do you keep your current RV?

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4 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

Where are these "$45-$50" state parks? They sure aren't here in Florida...

Try Washington State, California, even some of the Arizona SPs...

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18 minutes ago, vermilye said:

Try Washington State, California, even some of the Arizona SPs...

Hmmm, a good reason to stay east of the Mississippi I guess. ;)

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I just did some quick checks:

AZ State Park - the popular ones:

   Catalina - $15 dry - $30 E/W

   Kartchner - $30 50A electric

   Lost Dutchman - $20 dry - $30 50A electric

Oregon - Beverly Beach $29 partial - $34 full hookup

Washington - $35-$45 partial - $35-$45 full hookup

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3 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Then there's the price of the membership. I know about 1000 Trails... I'm not impressed.

That includes the dues when I figure out the costs.  Purchase prices was paid off almost immediately.   Lots of people purchase used memberships and very few people know that you can negotiate the price of a new membership way down by being willing to walk away.   All of which doesn't seem to matter to you because you "know" about TT.   NO, you don't know, you've just heard some things.

Way back when we originally started fulltiming we had thought we would stay in a lot of state and national parks.  Since most states have withdrawn support, those campgrounds now must charge higher fees to make up the difference, and are as expensive, if not more, than most private parks.  Especially in those states where a toad is charge as a second vehicle on a per day basis unless one purchases an annual state pass.   We like county/city parks when we can find them and COE parks - where you truly get a bargain, and even there, some of tried public-private partnerships and lost a lot of people because of the price increases.   

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6 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

You mention that it is an expensive luxury to own an RV, but each time you get the response that folks on this board are completely satisfied with the choices they've made and totally aware ;  of the costs

I don't know how others define "expensive luxury",  maybe I'm wrong,  but, with over $100,000 invested in our rig,  yes, I think that's a luxury purchase.

I don't make judgements about what other people should purchase.   I will say that if you're planning on living full time, you probably want something a little larger than a Class B,  if you need the extra space. 

Aside from the traveling, which is great,  after a while,  I appreciate coming home to a spacious home where I can relax during inclement weather;  it's a lot quieter too.    On rainy days in the RV and I try to avoid that,   we get a cooped up in the vehicle.   There's not a lot of storage space on a Class B,  which is a huge downside.   We've learned to travel light in the Class B...  

6 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

And so much of your information is just flat wrong. The normal rate of a state park campsite with power is $45 to $50. What??  We're entering our 10th year of full-timing and have yet to stay in a state park that charged that much.

Then you certainly don't live or have traveled much in California.    We've gone to many state parks and especially if you want full power adjacent to the Pacific Ocean … you're going to pay more like $70 per night.

We live in Los Angeles,  and let me tell you "nothing here is cheap".  

https://www.reservecalifornia.com/CaliforniaWebHome/

6 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

Why don't you go right ahead and let us know what does impress you about the RV lifestyle?

What impresses me is the freedom to go out in the vehicle and be completely self contained

Despite what you may think,   we absolutely love our RV.    OK, here's what I like- 

It's small, but, it's very luxurious on the inside with all cherry wood and soft fabric interiors on the walls.  It has a terrific sound system and nicely finished granite countertops.   Everything is in easy reach and we almost never have to do anything else besides just pulling up,  extending the awning and pulling out a couple of chairs from the trunk.    

We have the lightest footprint.   I never hook up to city water or the dump station.   We just hook up the 30 AMP electric.  When it's time to empty the tanks,  the hose is permanently attached and just pulls out from underneath the rig and the macerator pump flushes everything out. 

Ours is a 3 season rig,  not four seasons,  so,  I have to be mindful of that,  but, we don't have to do anything special to winterize it here in Southern California.   I don't have to worry about rust either,  we are not that close to the beach.   I've had cars in Southern California for 20 years and they never rust;  that's why vehicles here sell for premium dollars, unlike the northeast area of the US. 

 I'm not telling other people what they should or should not do,  do whatever you want,  and spend whatever you can afford.  

My requirements for my RV were pretty simple;    

1.  Had to be easy to drive, nimble enough to go anywhere and setup in minutes. 

2.  I did not want the cost of fuel to limit where I was going to go,  so I wanted 18 plus miles per gallon;  we got over 20 MPG on one trip.   So far,  we've gone almost 18,000 miles in two years. 

3.  Vehicle had to be easy to maintain and require no special roof maintenance,  it's a factory cargo van that's been converted and customized on the inside. 

4.  King size bed for two with a convertible sofa during the day.  

5.  Immediate access and no storage fees;  we keep it stocked and ready to go in the driveway. 

We are part time RV folks.   We have home and RV expenses to contend with.   

If you full time in less expensive areas with an older rig, especially one that is paid for,  maybe you can live on less. 

As far as investments are concerned,  let me say this one more time …. our RV cost $100,000..  so did our house when we purchased it 36 years ago... the difference is the house is now worth close to $650,000.    I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth.... but,  the RV's value will continue to drop while the private residence will just get more valuable over time... RV's are NOT investments,  but, they're an expensive commodity.   Since I own three houses that are all going up in value,  I can afford one major depreciating asset.   

I love the RV,  but,  I don't have to love the depreciation,  the two are NOT mutually exclusive. 

  

Edited by Roadtrek 1

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7 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Then there's the price of the membership. I know about 1000 Trails... I'm not impressed.

I realize not much impresses you but Barb's figures include their cost of membership. People who pay attention realize you can buy really good membership plans really cheap through the used markets. I'd think that would impress you. Since Dave & Barb like the parks that are along routes they regularly travel they spend a lot of time in those parks thus making their average night cost $7-10. You could do that, too.

Linda

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3 minutes ago, sandsys said:

I realize not much impresses you but Barb's figures include their cost of membership. People who pay attention realize you can buy really good membership plans really cheap through the used markets. I'd think that would impress you. Since Dave & Barb like the parks that are along routes they regularly travel they spend a lot of time in those parks thus making their average night cost $7-10. You could do that, too.

Linda

Linda,  OK, I'm willing to be open to suggestions... thank you for sharing.. It's not  bad idea for people who use it this way.

I found this article about 1000 Trails... They say it is like a 

..a “campground timeshare” but with less cost and commitment.

https://rvlove.com/2019/03/07/thousand-trails-zone-pass-explained/

Depends on my travels........it might make sense... I don't know. 

Not sure we travel like that or enough to warrant it ..?  Maybe? 

Even paying the full price for a zone pass.... however there's this added on feature...and you have to be careful with the premium parks.....

Maybe you can get someone else's pass ... for less...? 

Even so at $595 for one zone that's still a commitment to use it alot to make it pay for itself and move around every 4 days ... OR...be out of the system for 7 days periodically...

Like a timeshare ... you're essentially paying for the service in advance whether you use it and go those specific places or not.....then, you have to make sure they can accommodate you when you want to go.....

I wonder how much contention there is for the space during peak periods?   We have to book all of our reservations in advance.... with 55 million people in California..camping reservations get crowded everywhere...I'm sure it's the same for 1000 Trails as well 😀😀.    Also.. regarding premium parks....and encore properties...

As a Thousand Trails member – even if you just have a single Zone Camping Pass – you are eligible to purchase the optional “Trails Collection” add-on. The Trails Collection gives you access to 110 Encore properties nationally. And you can stay up to 14 nights at a time, at NO nightly fee for MOST parks. But, there are about 18 parks that are considered “premium” parks in popular locations, and charge $20 per night. As a Thousand Trails member – even if you just have a single Zone Camping Pass – you are eligible to purchase the optional “Trails Collection” add-on. The Trails Collection gives you access to 110 Encore properties nationally. And you can stay up to 14 nights at a time, at NO nightly fee for MOST parks. But, there are about 18 parks that are considered “premium” parks in popular locations, and charge $20 per night.

SO... I'll look into it further...
 

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I expect to keep ours another 8 years. At age 64 my expectation is that we will replace it with a slightly used high end 5ver (kind of thinking a New Horizons).  After that I have no idea how often we will replace it. Likely 5 or 10 years but maybe never.

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7 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

I don't know how others define "expensive luxury",  maybe I'm wrong,  but, with over $100,000 invested in our rig,  yes, I think that's a luxury purchase.

But you own a home in CA that cost way more than that and it isn't a luxury, even with your high taxes and expenses while the fulltimer, spending $100k+ on his home is luxury?

7 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Then you certainly don't live or have traveled much in California.   

CA is only 1 of the 49 states, Canada, and Mexico that RV travel and spend time in. 

7 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

 I'm not telling other people what they should or should not do,  do whatever you want,  and spend whatever you can afford.  T

 

Then why do you keep hammering us about what it costs us? The people you keep trying to convince that you know something they don't are a group who have been RVing for 30 years or more, many have actually lived in an RVt for 10 years or longer, and most of us think that we may have learned a few things along the way. There is nothing wrong with asking questions here as that is the key to how the forums work, but please stop telling eveyone that they are wrong. It seems to me that your main point is to cause arguments, not to share information. The theme of the Escapees RV  Club is caring and sharing and you seem to want to make it arguing and fighting. Many of those who have been responding to your posts have been active on these forums for a very long time and consider each other to be friends. More than a few of us have met in person as a result of the club and the forums. We have been sharing information and advice for long enogh that we know what works for us and we are happy doing so. Courtesy and respect would go a long way to help you fit into the group.

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8 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

As far as investments are concerned,  let me say this one more time …. our RV cost $100,000..  so did our house when we purchased it 36 years ago... the difference is the house is now worth close to $650,000.    I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth.... but,  the RV's value will continue to drop while the private residence will just get more valuable over time... RV's are NOT investments,  but, they're an expensive commodity.   Since I own three houses that are all going up in value,  I can afford one major depreciating asset.     

O.k., so you're well off.  Great.  How much money have you put into that $650K house over the past 36 years?  How much have you paid in taxes on that house over those 36 yrs?  

Have you ever figured out the total cost of YOUR home ownership?  Something tells me there isn't $550K profit.  Unless, of course, you never had to do a repair/replace/refurbish/pay taxes, etc, on the house.

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1 hour ago, remoandiris said:

O.k., so you're well off.  Great.  How much money have you put into that $650K house over the past 36 years?  How much have you paid in taxes on that house over those 36 yrs?  

Have you ever figured out the total cost of YOUR home ownership?  Something tells me there isn't $550K profit.  Unless, of course, you never had to do a repair/replace/refurbish/pay taxes, etc, on the house.

people just can't understand that money is a tool, if you try to hold on to it, it will flee, when you die everything that you have accumulated will be gone, use it, have fun, make sure you can survive as best you can, then enjoy life, 

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2 hours ago, remoandiris said:

O.k., so you're well off.  Great.  How much money have you put into that $650K house over the past 36 years?  How much have you paid in taxes on that house over those 36 yrs?  

Have you ever figured out the total cost of YOUR home ownership?  Something tells me there isn't $550K profit.  Unless, of course, you never had to do a repair/replace/refurbish/pay taxes, etc, on the house.

 Here's the thing.... sure, we've put money into the house....but, we've also lived here for more than 36 years..and even with all the mortgage payments and the tax deductions on the interest...it still makes financial sense to stay here... 

We live in Los Angeles. Maybe you don't know but there's a real housing shortage here and space for single family residences are at a premium price.... We're on a fairly large piece of property by today's standards... what's happening is the larger parcels are being subdivided and today a lot like ours would have two houses on this parcel.  Plus, to deal with the shortage of places to live they are building skyscraper apartment buildings near transit centers and the subway...YES..Los Angeles has a subway....

SO... our private home in a quiet residential neighborhood will get even more desirable as time goes by... they are not building smaller starter homes like this anymore in the city.?  WHY?  The land is too valuable..... you see..it's not the house that is so special...it's nice enough... but, the land value and location is the key ingredient.  I don't know where you live...LA is a world class city with abundant services... LA is a shopping Mecca and anything you might want is available here. 

I'm not concerned about the actual "profit" as you call it right now... never have been.. What I'm concerned about is the price elasticity factor...it's going up because of the location...yes.. that old joke in real estate is so true....

We certainly do have "equity" in the house...I own more than 60 percent of the value...of course it can go down in price..it has dipped in the past...who cares, we actually live here...it will never go lower than what I paid for it. 

The point about the house is... in the future, I have options...I could do a reverse mortgage, rent the house and make money or sell it and cash out and purchase a home in a less expensive area... people do that you know.  

I was lucky that I grew up in LA...worked all my life, had a good job and was able to purchase a home in LA when they were still affordable....( when we purchased it, I thought it was a lot of money and it was a leap of faith). 

Let me tell you my house increased in value way faster than my salary did...By the time I retired, I couldn't have afforded to buy my own house all over again..it happened that fast even as my salary went up... My only option was to stay the course with the house and my job making payments.

Finally.. taxes?  Because we paid only $100,000 our taxes are pretty much back at the lower level...Prop 13....it hasn't gone up that much...we probably pay less than you do...  It's all complicated .. there's rules for transferring your existing property taxes to a new residence, but, if you are not able to do do that, you have to pay the going market rate and they assess you on the new value.... another reason why we have not moved...

You can't make the same statement for my $100,000 RV..it loses money over time. It's not going to increase in value.... UNLESS it became a "collectible"..... it's possible?   

Years ago...one of my first cars was a 57 Chevy Bel Air...I loved the car except it got 8 MPG...Well, today, a 57 Chevy Bel Air would sell for $25-$30,000...and my car was beautiful.  I don't know... anything is possible.

Those of you who have had to replace your vehicles every 10 -15 years..or had other repairs..etc.   Let me tell you from my view the RV is much more fragile than a house.  

Finally, when I say that the house is my financial "ace in the hole" against future inflation... I'm not kidding.    

Let me ask you this question.... have you figured out how much it's costing you with the lost opportunity to make your money and investment work for you? 

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Roadtrek,

We stay in parks in California all of the time - we are big wine enthusiasts and thus spend a lot of time.   TT parks are all over CA.  So, look at the Zone Pass and try it for a year.   BTW - everyone who uses membership parks know that you need a Homepark/System and then also Affiliate memberships like Coast-2-Coast.   We have a homework in Colorado, and then memberships in Coast-2-Coast, ROD, AOR and our 2-zone TT pass with the Trails collection.   We save $2500+ each year because we USE them extensively.

No one cares what you will make from your house, or how great a deal you got buying it early in California.  Lots of people live(d) in areas where the housing market is 'hot'.  Millions of people lost a lot of money during the housing bust, and those that didn't loose money saw the value of their property decline.  In some places (think midwest, rustbelts) the values haven't come back.   We were exceedingly lucky to have sold our last home in '05.   But we have also been in a situation where we couldn't sell when we lived south of Akron  in 1983 because of the recession.   It looks us over 18 months to finally sell, in the mean time we had to carry two mortgages, had a tenant who also lost their job so had to evict, etc.   It took us years to finally get back to the point where we were 'even'.

You assume that fulltiming equals a 'lost opportunity' and that is so sad.  I really pity you if you can't understand the joy that a lot of us have to be able to see the country, not to be tied down, to be able to flip a coin to decide which of two roads we will take, to make note of places still to visit, to be able to return to see the development of an area.  We chase that 75° mark and don't mind the few days of rain over the year (this year being a real outlier for Phoenix area).    We have played in the snow in July up on Mt. Baker, looked into the crater at Mt. St Helens over the years and marvel at it's regrowth.  Walked on the beach on EACH of the four coasts of the USA (Pacific, Great Lakes, Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico) and stuck my toes in the water.   Took a boat ride on the old Erie Canal outside of Niagara Falls - and seen both sides of the falls.   And enjoy being with each other - we each had life-threatening episodes and appreciate that we can still do things at our age.   

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3 hours ago, hamrs_62 said:

people just can't understand that money is a tool, if you try to hold on to it, it will flee, when you die everything that you have accumulated will be gone, use it, have fun, make sure you can survive as best you can, then enjoy life, 

I agree 💯 percent...why do you think I purchased the RV? 

On the other hand, it's good to have a backup plan.   The house is my primary home and a solid investment.    People on this forum don't understand my point of view that RVs just go down in value...... I do like the part time RV adventure.   If you are parking your rig somewhere for three months or more how is that any different from me just being home for a while? 

We get out and enjoy whenever we can. 

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1 hour ago, hemsteadc said:

My 5er is 16 years old.  I love this old gal.. I made the right choice the first time.

That's perfect..  good for you.  I always say that the best choice is the one that works for you the first time..  

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13 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

 I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth.... but,  the RV's value will continue to drop while the private residence will just get more valuable over time... RV's are NOT investments,  but, they're an expensive commodity.    

I wonder why you continue to pepper your posts with statements like this??  You are the only person that has continued to speak of an RV as an investment. I (and many others) am firmly on record as stating that an RV is not an investment in any way, shape or form.  I  think you believe you have some type of unique knowledge that others don't possess, and you seem to feel that insulting comments like "I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth" are a way to more forcefully get your point across. 

You seem to be a borderline troll in that you continue to post on one topic, only to come back and hammer on your mantra of "A house is an investment, and RV is not". You seem very insecure about your choices regarding RVing.  I have no such insecurities. 

2 minutes ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

  People on this forum don't understand my point of view that RVs just go down in value...... I do like the part time RV adventure.   If you are parking your rig somewhere for three months or more how is that any different from me just being home for a while? 

Again, absolutely no confusion on this board regarding the fact that RVs go down in value. Did you just figure that out??  Is that why you are so eager to repeat it over and over again??

Have no doubt, staying in my rig for four months in Maine one summer, and then a few months in Florida, and then a few more in Texas before heading to Colorado the next summer (while enjoying the travel between those spots) is completely different than you "just being home for a while". That is something that you apparently cannot comprehend. But please carry on and continue to "educate" the folks on this forum who have huge amounts of experience living (both full and part-time) in RVs about what we don't know...

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1 hour ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

s good to have a backup plan.   The house is my primary home and a solid investment.    People on this forum don't understand my point of view that RVs just go down in value.

Why do you assume we don't have backup plans?

Some of us see our RVs as going up in value because they allow us to have valuable experiences we could not get by staying in a house.

Linda Sand

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17 minutes ago, sandsys said:

Why do you assume we don't have backup plans?

Some of us see our RVs as going up in value because they allow us to have valuable experiences we could not get by staying in a house.

Linda Sand

😍😍😍

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1 hour ago, 2gypsies said:

Why is everyone continuing to engage in conversation with this guy?

Because it's fun to see if we can break through his assumptions to make him see things our way. Why are you still reading? :)

Linda

 

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