1000 Trails ?? or KOA..?

[RV inspector]

22 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

That depends on your chosen lifestyle as there are many other ways to stay in the RV inexpensively other than membership parks. Some of us spend time as RV volunteers where full hookup sites are supplied, others spend most of their time dry camping in places that are free, or nearly so. For the right people the groups save a great deal of money, but for othes it is a complete waste of money. There is no one best plan for everyone and that is part of the attraction of the RV lifestyle. 

Of course, there are plenty of other great ways to save money on camping costs other than TT. To each his own. 

I was simply comparing the usefulness of a KOA discount plan to buying a TT membership as the OP requested.

[FL-JOE]

14 hours ago, RV inspector said:

Of course, there are plenty of other great ways to save money on camping costs other than TT. To each his own. 

I was simply comparing the usefulness of a KOA discount plan to buying a TT membership as the OP requested.

You are comparing apples to oranges.  Having a KOA, PA (PassportAmerica), or a GS (Good Sams) discount card is nothing like buying into a time share type membership like TT.  That is like saying renting a car and leasing a car is the same thing.

We are full time and travel generally 7 or 8 months out of the year.  We are stationary for the winter months in SW Florida.  Your statement about needing a membership like TT to save money as a full timer is misleading IMHO.  

[RV inspector]

1 hour ago, FL-JOE said:

Your statement about needing a membership like TT to save money as a full timer is misleading IMHO.  

Sometimes misunderstandings develop when the posts aren't actually read thoroughly enough. So let's review what I have said in my posts on this thread so far.

In my first response to the OP I said: "What fits one person's needs and wants may not work at all for others." I was not saying that TT was needed by everyone.

In my next post I said:"Just read the articles I referenced above about how the whole system works and when you do the math you can see that it is easy to save $5000 or more on camping costs each year with just a zone pass alone that will cost you about $600 instead. This can often mean the difference between being able to afford the full-time RV lifestyle or not for some." Notice I didn't say that TT could be considered crucial for everyone, just for some. I think this statement is based on fact since some of the posters on this thread have said that they are pleased with the way their membership has turned out and I have personally read several comments by SOME TT membership owners all over the internet who have actually said that it has meant the difference between them being able to travel full-time the way they like to or not.

In my last post which FL-Joe quoted I said:"Of course, there are plenty of other great ways to save money on camping costs other than TT. To each his own."

My question is how in any of these statements did I say that RVers "need" TT to save money? There are in fact, plenty of other ways to save money on full-time RVing, and Kirk W mentioned some of the alternatives in his post in this thread.

Personally, I don't have a TT membership, so my comments are not coming from an "everyone needs to do what I do" motive. I have simply done the research and feel that TT is a very good bargain for SOME when you actually try to understand the system and run the numbers.

I will also say that it has amazed me how often the mere mention of TT on forums and websites seems to bring out a level of anti-TT fervor that is not really based on research or facts. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether it is based on fact or not. But I think most people visit these forums to get reliable information that they can use. I was trying to provide some information that has been based on the facts I have gained from my research on the subject. If I failed to express it properly, I apologize.

[Barbaraok]

It isn't just the mention of TT, but the mention of anyone buying any membership (new or used) that brings forth a deluge of "facts" that people have heard from their 3rd cousins best friend - all based upon some practices that have long sent been eliminated by court orders.       

You did a very good job of summarizing why some of us have, and USE, our memberships in order to save money.  And the key is the USE part.  

[$ Spot]

49 minutes ago, RV inspector said:

….. I will also say that it has amazed me how often the mere mention of TT on forums and websites seems to bring out a level of anti-TT fervor that is not really based on research or facts. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether it is based on fact or not. But I think most people visit these forums to get reliable information that they can use. 

I've been a reader here for 2 years & a participant for 2 weeks and have seen what you've described here and agree with your view. An opinion based on facts will have more value than one based on emotion, and the anti-TT fervor seems rooted in emotion. Here and elsewhere I'll read valuable information by folks that favor the various discount options like the State Park Pass, TT Camping Pass and/or Membership, Passport America, et cetera, as they share first hand experience or the results of research, and am grateful for their participation. And then at times due to comments I'll shake my head and wonder where the adult went as that thread goes off the rails.

     Spot

Edited June 24, 2019 by $Spot

[FL-JOE]

Obviously since I have expressed my low opinion of the importance of a TT membership for "most" full timers, there are several here that vigorously disagree.

First of all, no one who is a full timer or has been doing extensive traveling/camping for awhile should ever confuse memberships such as TT with discount card like KOA, PA, or GS's.   The Thousand Trails are set up about like time shares with buy ins, etc.  Your discount cards are just that, if a park participates you may get a certain percentage off your stay or you might get a free night.

We have done two different stints of full timing.  We specifically targeted TT the first time thinking it would work for us.  We read everything, we talked to them, but we found it was not a good fit for us nor did we think the savings would be there.  When we came back to full timing a couple years ago we not only gave them another look, but we went and stayed in two of their CGs.  Still not a good fit nor could I make the numbers work as any type of drastic money saving membership.

If someone wants to read their information and print articles about them being great then I guess there will be folks that will read those articles and be influenced by that, especially when they have a screen name like "RV inspector".   Oh, and by the way, welcome to the forum RV inspector.  

What I would suggest to anyone starting out is to take a long look at them first hand.  Don't just read TT literature or read what others are saying, go stay in a few of their parks prior to paying all that money.  Then make your own decision based on your own first hand experience and observations.

[Barbaraok]

Suggest you try a TT zone pass for a year and see whether it will be a good fit for you, especially if on the West  Coast.

[sandsys]

We bought into a membership park across the river from Parker, AZ. We could stay two weeks free then pay for the third week or go somewhere else. I chose the latter all except once. Since I was in that area every winter, I made good use of that park. It came with RPI and C2C as a bonus, but I chose instead to use PA when traveling, so when it came time to renew those two add-ons I didn't do it. I never used either of those during that time but I still feel like I got my money's worth by having a nice place with full hookups for most of the winter. I didn't find boondocking at Q on my weeks out to be a hardship at all since I could go back to my home park to dump, fill, do laundry, and get meals from the bar. Their chicken strips were good and cheap and the breakfasts served in the clubhouse weren't bad either which helped since I don't really cook.

Linda

[trailertraveler]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Suggest you try a TT zone pass for a year and see whether it will be a good fit for you, especially if on the West  Coast.

Just be aware that even with the add on "trails package" there are about 16 states where there are no Thousand Trails/Encore parks. If there are no member parks where you want to be, you will not get you money's worth. I suggest taking a close look at where the parks are before buying even a zone pass.

We just got a free one zone pass when we traded trailers. We were planning to go to Arizona in the fall so selected the Southwest zone. There is only one Thousand Trails park in Arizona and it is a popular one. Hopefully we will be able to get a spot when the 60 window opens. Other plans have longer reservation windows so lots of folks will have a crack at getting sites before we will. None of the Trails Package parks are in places in Arizona that we want to be so I did not add that package to the membership.

[RV inspector]

On question #2, yes you have access to all of the included Trails Collection parks for the $214 along with your zone pass.

It's actually a pretty good deal IMHO.

 

[Barbaraok]

Yes

yes

no.

All TT parks are first come when it comes to site assignments, as are a lot of the trails parks.  Just depends.  We always move on Sunday or Monday so have a good selection to choose from.

As to annual renters, we never have had anything said to us.  Most are very quiet, just thankful for having somewhere in the west to live.  Housing is so expensive and scarce that if they can get an annual site, they don’t do anything to upset the apple cart.

[GR "Scott" Cundiff]

15 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

All TT parks are first come when it comes to site assignments, as are a lot of the trails parks.  Just depends.  We always move on Sunday or Monday so have a good selection to choose from.

 

Just a note here - some Thousand Trails are now assigning sites based on rig size.  We've run into it at Forest Lake in NC, Williamsburg in VA, and Harbor View in VA.  I think they are doing it at Gettysburg Farm and Circle M in PA too.

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, GR "Scott" Cundiff said:

Just a note here - some Thousand Trails are now assigning sites based on rig size.  We've run into it at Forest Lake in NC, Williamsburg in VA, and Harbor View in VA.  I think they are doing it at Gettysburg Farm and Circle M in PA too.

It is something I've wish they would do in the PNW.  It is extremely disheartening to see a popup trailer in a site where a larger RV would fit and the only thing left is the too short site - especially at Thunderbird where only 1/2 of the sites have sewer and even less have access to the sky for satellite reception.

[sandsys]

37 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

It is something I've wish they would do in the PNW.  It is extremely disheartening to see a popup trailer in a site where a larger RV would fit and the only thing left is the too short site - especially at Thunderbird where only 1/2 of the sites have sewer and even less have access to the sky for satellite reception.

After all, your need for sewer and satellite is more important than the popup's need for a location that suits their own needs? Do they not pay as much as you do? Or do they actually pay more because they didn't get as good a deal as you did on their membership?

Sorry I'm feeling grumpy tonight but this bugged me. The definition of aggressive behavior is when I think my rights are more important than yours but I don't usually think of you as aggressive so maybe you were having a bad night, too?

Linda

[$ Spot]

55 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

  It is extremely disheartening to see a popup trailer in a site where a larger RV would fit and the only thing left is the too short site 

12 minutes ago, sandsys said:

 Do they not pay as much as you do? Or do they actually pay more because they didn't get as good a deal as you did on their membership?

I've considered this circumstance often, especially when I see it, and bounce back and forth between differing viewpoints. I finally come to rest on the idea of consideration, and how it would effect ones choice of campsite. An inward focus will have one choice while an outward focus will have another.

     Spot

 

[Barbaraok]

19 minutes ago, sandsys said:

After all, your need for sewer and satellite is more important than the popup's need for a location that suits their own needs? Do they not pay as much as you do? Or do they actually pay more because they didn't get as good a deal as you did on their membership?

Sorry I'm feeling grumpy tonight but this bugged me. The definition of aggressive behavior is when I think my rights are more important than yours but I don't usually think of you as aggressive so maybe you were having a bad night, too?

Linda

If there is a site that can take a 25 or under rig and one that can take a 40+ rig, only two sites left,  why should the pop up be in a site way to big for them with the other site then being unusable?    This has nothing to do with sewer/satellite, that’s the same for everyone, it has to do with allocating sites in a manner that ensures sites don’t sit empty because of inconsiderate people.  Don’t tell people they have a reservation when they will not be able to fit in a site.  Russian River has started to designate some sites as for those over X feet long to help with the problems on holiday weekends.    If all of the sites were the same length this wouldn’t matter, but for older park that isn’t the case.  Also in some, the sites work for trailers/5ers but not for MHs because of the slant of the site.   

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Also in some, the sites work for trailers/5ers but not for MHs because of the slant of the site.   

So the trailer owner should have to adjust to the unlevel site so you won't have to do so? Besides, I thought you always arrived early so you wouldn't have these problems? You even postpone lunch to get in early, right? How could the smaller rig have got there before you? Maybe they came in a day or two ago and the large site was the only one available at that time? I can see that happening if they came in late Saturday and everything else was taken because staff was saving the big site for a big rig. Should the smaller rig not be allowed in at all in case a bigger rig arrives later? 

Linda

[Kirk W]

7 hours ago, $Spot said:

I've considered this circumstance often, especially when I see it, and bounce back and forth between differing viewpoints.

We have traveled with RVs from a 16' popup to a 36' motorhome and are now back down to a 20' travel trailer. In my experience most commercial parks do asign sites pretty much by RV size in order to make best use of sites. A few public park campgrounds do that but most are first come, first served or if they have reservations you can reserve by specific site. When it is my option to select my own site, I first look to what site seems best or most attractive. If there are multiple sites available which equally meet our preferences, I do take the smaller one, leaving the larger for a larger RV but if there is a small site that we can fit but in a less desirable location, and a very large site in a desirable location, I will take the desirable site, just as I would expect that anyone else would do. Even when staying in a commercial RV park, if I pay the same amount as the larger rig, I expect to be given just as attractive a site as the larger RVs, even if it means I sit in a large site while leaving only a small site for the later arrivals. One of the reasons that we always stop early is for choice of site. There is no reason that the young family in a popup should not have just as nice a site with just as much space as the folks who arrive in a 40' long diesel pusher if they are paying the same amount. We used to be that family and we traveled with 2 adults and 3 boys and we needed more space that those retired people in the big RV which we could not afford. 

There is a county park near Pam's sister live that is very popular which does reserve sites by site number and when we visit there I always reserve early in the year to get a specific site which we enjoy the view from and with a desireable location, even though that site is lage enoungh for the largest of RVs on the highway and we park our small trailer in the middle of it for a week.

[GR "Scott" Cundiff]

10 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

It is something I've wish they would do in the PNW.  It is extremely disheartening to see a popup trailer in a site where a larger RV would fit and the only thing left is the too short site - especially at Thunderbird where only 1/2 of the sites have sewer and even less have access to the sky for satellite reception.

As you can imagine there's a lot of discussion about it.  Those who dislike it have, I think, stronger feelings than those who like it.  However, overall, it's a fairly popular change.  Since it keeps coming up on the "Good and Bad" group on Facebook I did a survey asking people whether or not they like the change.  To date 389 people say they like it while 95 say they don't like it.  

Putting rigs in appropriate sized sites certainly make sense.  No private campground with a limited number of bigger sites would allow a smaller rig to use a bigger site - it just makes sense. 

However, that only works if the sites are otherwise equal.  Bigger sites aren't always better sites, but sometimes they are.  That's when the person with the smaller RV has reason to complain about being told that they can't use a particular site.  Of course, human nature being what it is, if you tell someone they can't use a certain site they will want to use it!

Personally, I think the underlying problem is that Thousand Trails keeps setting sites aside for annual or seasonal use.  The annuals are the ones filling up all the bigger sites, not the weekender with the small RV.

[Barbaraok]

11 hours ago, sandsys said:

So the trailer owner should have to adjust to the unlevel site so you won't have to do so? Besides, I thought you always arrived early so you wouldn't have these problems? You even postpone lunch to get in early, right? How could the smaller rig have got there before you? Maybe they came in a day or two ago and the large site was the only one available at that time? I can see that happening if they came in late Saturday and everything else was taken because staff was saving the big site for a big rig. Should the smaller rig not be allowed in at all in case a bigger rig arrives later? 

Linda

Yes, we get there early.   No, we have never had to stay overnight in overflow areas.  Yes, we have sat and watched while popup occupies a large site (and left a perfectly good short site sitting empty) and later arriving larger unit have to go into overflow until someone else left.  Short site sat empty for two days before another shorter rig pulled in to use it.    I didn't say they took the ONLY site available, I said they took the bigger site thereby depriving a later arriving rig a place.  

Linda, there are some sites that might be long enough, but a long motorhome can not be leveled on it are will scrape on the bottom because of the slant of the site.  It isn't about leveling side to side, or even moderate front to back, it is about the whole design of the site and the physics of pivot points of different types of rigs.   

Edited June 26, 2019 by Barbaraok

[Barbaraok]

4 hours ago, Kirk W said:

There is a county park near Pam's sister live that is very popular which does reserve sites by site number and when we visit there I always reserve early in the year to get a specific site which we enjoy the view from and with a desireable location, even though that site is lage enoungh for the largest of RVs on the highway and we park our small trailer in the middle of it for a week.

The problem is being given a reservation and when arriving finding that having a reservation may mean sitting in an overflow area with no hookups (i.e. a gravel parking lot) with empty short sites and popups in large sites.   If people are allowed to see sites available and reserve them then I have no problem with someone reserving a large site - a large MH owner will see no sites that they will fit into available for the dates and can then look for another park or adjust their dates of their stay.   I always enjoyed our stay at Hickory Creek because after one time being there, I knew which sites would work for us and which wouldn't and could then reserve the site(s) we liked best and made sure to reserve early for weeks during Thanksgiving/Christmas time frame.  

[Barbaraok]

3 hours ago, GR "Scott" Cundiff said:

Personally, I think the underlying problem is that Thousand Trails keeps setting sites aside for annual or seasonal use.  The annuals are the ones filling up all the bigger sites, not the weekender with the small RV.

Yes, that is clearly part of the problem.   I've learned that when we go into a TT park that we have been to before, I ask what sites are no longer annual as it usually changes year to year and sometimes you don't notice that a site is again available because the annual rent wasn't renewed.