Why full time?

[Roadtrek 1]

Is it really less expensive than a home?   What about health care and your regular doctors? 

I love the part time thing, but, full time?  I don't see the benefits.... especially as I get older. 

Plus, the rig just depreciates so fast and then there's the issues of repairs... where do you go when your home is in the shop getting fixed?  

All of this seems very complicated to me.... maybe you have a better plan? 

[whj469]

I have never full timed. People travel to see places and visit others. No home to pay for, upkeep, insurance and real estate taxes. Real estate taxes can be very high in many parts of the US. I have friends in upstate NY who pay $10,000 per year and also Texas who pay $9,500 per year. As we aged we realized that we didn't need as much space. We spend our summers in the UP of MI and winters on my small ranch in SE Texas or southern FL.

[Pat & Pete]

K.I.S.S. . .

It's as simple as you make it . Or , as complicated . Just like life in a S&B .

[NDBirdman]

At this moment, I say we will only be part timers (wife retires this year).  Snobird'rs during the cold months, but at our S-n-B during the warm months.  Different strokes for different folks.  Home ownership = lots of upkeep/work which I enjoy.  Home/property paid for so it does not cost much to own, my property taxes this year is going up to $500, so much cheaper than most places.  Disadvantage, I have to mow the grass (well, I pay a young man to do it).  Advantage, I have a large garden and lots of fruit trees.  I have tons of toys, er, tools.  Cost wise in an RV depends on the individual.  New/used, you can buy a cheap RV and constantly put $$ into it for repairs.  Buy expensive, some cost more than a small house.  Either way, you WILL be putting $$ into it eventually, upgrades, repairs, etc.  Then, depending on where you wish to stay.  Want full hook-ups?  That's not free, daily/weekly/monthly or yearly, your going to pay $$.  You can live on the cheap boon-docking if that's your thing but then you have to hook up - pay to dump, fill with water, etc.  In the long run, it's not totally free, just cheap(er).  Then how will you get around?  Vehicles cost $$ to run/pull RVs, etc.  Drive around alot, you will go through vehicles.

Personally, I see lots of advantages/disadvantages to either life-style.  In the end, you just have to do what makes you happy, it's your life.  You can make it complicated, or as simple as *you* choose.  Whatever you do, one thing to remember, breakdowns happen.  Same as my house.  Ya got to plan ahead of time and have a back-up account for when *it happens, ie $$ stashed away.  When I was a young man, I for a while, lived the lifestyle of a gypsy and enjoyed the heck out of it.  I don't currently full time, don't know if I ever will but the thought is there sometimes, like when it's -40 outside.

Healthcare, have not had to cross that bridge yet but I don't foresee a problem between VA, Tri-care and medicare, I think I can be seen almost anywhere in the US.

Full timing, it's just a lifestyle like anything else.  IMHO

[2gypsies]

Every single of the 'what ifs' has a very doable answer.  It's all been worked out over the many years that people have full-timed.

They do it for various reasons but our was that we retired (or got downsized) from our jobs in our 50's. We knew we didn't want to sit around in a 2500 sq ft house and especially, not in the cold winter months.  We always like traveling.  Like many others, we started out in tents then a pop up, tiny Scotty travel trailer, 27' travel trailer, 33' 5th wheel and finally a 40' motorhome.  We enjoyed all of them but especially the motorhome because we could tow the Jeep.  We enjoy adventure - traveling the backroads, volunteering for national and state parks and other public places.  We wanted to see every inch of this beautiful country and we succeeded, we think. Some seasons we would stay in only one state but we'd explore that state in detail.

There are many ways of fulltiming and it can be as economical as you want. Some can get by very cheaply and others need the more expensive places to stay.  We loved public parks and boondocking on public lands so our way of travel was very reasonable.  We also volunteered which gave us a free site but we really didn't do it for a free site. We did it to help out our parks which is much needed.

We've had surgeries along our travels and had the best care.  You can have it done at the very best places.  No problem finding doctors. 

We never had problems with our RVs - really.  We'd make appts. for routine maintenance for a place in the direction we were traveling. We got there the afternoon before and spent the night on their lot in our 'home'. They'd do what they had to the next day and if it was early enough we'd take off. If not, they always welcomed us to spend another night.

Selling everything including the house was a big weight lifted from our shoulders.  Full-timing is calm and relaxing... for us, anyway.

[richfaa]

What ever suites you We have been long timing for 13 years. We considered full timing and it could have gone  either way. Our goals were to stay out of snow, Ice, etc and travel the country. We determined that we could financially  both keep our S&B and meet our goals hence long timing.

We live in Northern Ohio which has a reasonable cost of living. The S&B was paid  off so no mortgage. Don't know which is less expensive in our case it would be close.Travel can be very expensive .You have to be lodged somewhere 24/7/365. Diesel fuel is a huge expense. IMO RV maint is high when a high end user.

 We find that a large number of Full Timers also have a Place" somewhere Livingston,Tx f or example.

We do not work camp. We do not boondock. We did not lower our Standard of living except for moving into a much smaller living space  for many months of the year. We did after 13 years  purchase a place in Florida as we are growing older and slower.We have followed many full timers blogs. We do keep one for our own use but it is not public. We can substitute our names ,pictures  in any of these blogs and we have been to the same places done the same things.

Full timing is a great lifestyle but is not for everyone. Now that we are slowing down we have if need be to a S&B paid for at our disposable. I think everyone here enjoys their lifestyle as it should be.

[mptjelgin]

Ugh, Because we enjoy it?  Because we get to travel all over the country and spend months (not just days or weeks) in an area that we enjoy exploring. Because we volunteer for a lot of different agencies, learn new things, meet great people. And did I mention that we enjoy it?

As far as cost of rig and depreciation, we can afford it. Repairs? I can do most of them myself, and if not we can afford those too.  We don't do this because it is cheaper, but it really is a pretty inexpensive way to live if you make smart choices. 

When folks talk to us about our lifestyle the first thing that I say is "It isn't for everyone, and in fact it isn't for most people". The fact is that most people want to keep their "stuff", stay close to their family, friends, church, etc., and are frankly just more comfortable with a home. The "what ifs" seem formidable enough that they simply don't want to take them on. And that is fine. If we were all doing exactly the same thing this would be a dull world...

[Dutch_12078]

Many of us don't fulltime because it's less expensive, we fulltime because we enjoy the lifestyle. As it happens, our fulltiming costs along with our costs to maintain our small Adirondack family cottage about equal what our costs were when we had a 1,700 sq ft sticks & bricks with all of its attendent maintenance needs. We don't spend a lot of time at the cottage though, and when we do, we continue to live in our coach except for brief periods while we clean or make repairs and modifications. Over the years with various RV's, I've done most of the repair work, but we've  had a few major breakdowns, like a failed transmission, a blown engine, and a failed rear axle assembly. In every case, we were able to remain staying in the coach, at least for the nights.

Medically, we see our regular doctors when we're in the area, but our Medicare Advantage Plan covers us pretty much everywhere we go, and the few times we've needed it, if an urgent care facility wasn't enough, we've never had a problem locating an in plan provider near us. When my wife was battling cancer, we had no trouble finding a quality oncologist in Florida that worked cooperatively with her oncologist in upstate NY. I also have VA care available if needed...

[sandsys]

We went full time to see the country and in my hopes that we would find someplace other than Minnesota to settle down when that time came again. I lost. We are back in Minnesota.

But, it was a great three years (we at least drove through each of the 48 contiguous states) and I'm glad we went. And I'm glad we sold our house before we went as we are liking apartment living in our old age.

Linda Sand

[richfaa]

31 minutes ago, sandsys said:

We went full time to see the country and in my hopes that we would find someplace other than Minnesota to settle down when that time came again. I lost. We are back in Minnesota.

But, it was a great three years (we at least drove through each of the 48 contiguous states) and I'm glad we went. And I'm glad we sold our house before we went as we are liking apartment living in our old age.

Linda Sand

You hit on something that will be the next big decision for us. we have a large tri level S&B that we purchased long ago. 2200 sq feet, 5 bedrooms on a  over 1/2 acre . There are now only the two of us. We do not even use one large bedroom.  Helen has a craft room and I have my Computer room and a downstairs bedroom has been converted into a large pantry. We even have a full hook up RV pad on the property .  It is way to large for us but it is paid for and Helen loves the yard and her flowers.We have got to downsize and it will be difficult. There is plenty of equity in the property so it will not be a financial hardship to downsize. We had to install a lift  to aid us in going up the steps as Helen injured her leg and  a old knee injury required surgery for me. Getting old is a bummer. If need be Florida will one day become our Domicile.

We purchased a lot in Florida and a single wide will be going up in the near future. The Truck and 5th wheel has served us well but it has served its purpose. We have also traveled the lower 48 a bit of Canada and Mexico.

[JRP]

2 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Is it really less expensive than a home?   What about health care and your regular doctors? 

I love the part time thing, but, full time?  I don't see the benefits.... especially as I get older. 

Plus, the rig just depreciates so fast and then there's the issues of repairs... where do you go when your home is in the shop getting fixed?  

All of this seems very complicated to me.... maybe you have a better plan? 

1) most people don't fulltime because its cheaper. They fulltime because they love to travel & explore. It can be cheaper if you need it to be. You spend as little as you have or as much as you have. That applies whether you live in a house, boat, or RV.

2) dealing with health care is no different in an RV than in a house. Some choose to go back to the same area periodically to visit the same Doc. Some like me see different doctors all over the country. 

3) If you don't see a benefit then don't do it.  Lots of folks do things I see no benefit in. 

4) Yes, RV's depreciate like most of what we buy. But your life depreciates quickly too, enjoy it while you can. 

5) Its only complicated if you make it so. I don't have a plan other than going north in the summer and south in the winter, and having fun.

[rynosback]

3 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Is it really less expensive than a home?   

Depends on your home, where you like to stay, the cost of fuel, how often you move.  There are a lot of variables.

What about health care and your regular doctors? 

We have a PPO, so we do not need referrals.  We do see a different doctor and dentist every time.  We do carry our records with us.

I love the part time thing, but, full time?  I don't see the benefits.... especially as I get older. 

The benefits are seeing this beautiful country all year long.  Stay in one place for a while or move around.  What ever you want.  Big storm comes, hook up and get out of the way.  Getting older is the real question.  When I was researching it, I  noticed a common comment.  I wish we started earlier.  As someone developed some health issue that took them off the road.  But if you just enjoy part timing it and question full timing, then maybe you answered your own question.  There are pros and cons to everything.  To me the pros out weighed the cons.

Plus, the rig just depreciates so fast and then there's the issues of repairs... where do you go when your home is in the shop getting fixed?  

I repair and maintain my own rig.  But if I needed a repair, I would just take it to a shop or have a RV tech come out. I have stayed in my rig when warranty work was done at the factory.  I also have stayed in an extended stay when some paint warranty work was done.  If you part time RV, your rig devalues at the same pace as you full timed.  

 

Quote

All of this seems very complicated to me.... maybe you have a better plan? 

I am not sure what is complicated?  Once you pick what your domicile state is and set up a mailing service.  Just travel and enjoy the area that you are in.   Bills and banking are electronic, so know real need for paper mail.  Hope this gives you some incite on my perspective.  But you must look into yourself for what you want to do.  If you do not want to do it then don’t.  If you do then find out what you need to do to reach your goal.

Answers in BOLD in your quote.  Best of luck with your decision.

 

I am guessing that you part time in a Roadtrek? By your sceen name.  Maybe because of the small space that you have you can not see it.  People full time in all sorts of rigs.

[Barbaraok]

3 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Is it really less expensive than a home?   What about health care and your regular doctors? 

I love the part time thing, but, full time?  I don't see the benefits.... especially as I get older. 

Plus, the rig just depreciates so fast and then there's the issues of repairs... where do you go when your home is in the shop getting fixed?  

All of this seems very complicated to me.... maybe you have a better plan? 

Well it for us it is less expensive, but then we had a large house in an area with high property taxes and a hefty mortgage.  

Health care, not a problem, it is part of our retirement package until we were eligible for Medicare, now it is our supplemental.  We swung by our former town each year before spending holidays with our daughter.  When our medical needs became more than just a week’s stop, we changed physicians to where we spend longer time each year.  

We never expect to make money off the rig.    When she needs maintenance/repair, we park in the service center and they take the motorhome during the day.

Not complicated at all.  But it does help if you do research.  Read the blogs that a lot of people have in their signature line - will give you and ideas of all of the different ways to full time. 

[rynosback]

Some great replies to this thread.

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Is it really less expensive than a home? 

It just depends on what you choose to live in, where you choose to stay and what you choose to do. In other words, it is just like any other lifestyle, it costs what you chose to spend. Saving money is probably the worst reason to go fulltime that I know of.

4 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

I love the part time thing, but, full time?  I don't see the benefits.... especially as I get older. 

In this case, you probably should not do so.  The full-time RV lifestyle is not one for those who have doubts. Most of us who go on the road full-time do so because we are adventurous, always looking for the new experience and for things others never do. We do so because of the people we meet along the road and the friends that we make in the RV community. We go fulltime because life is too short to sit in one spot and wait for new experiences to find us but we go out and find them. We go on the road because we find living in the same place, doing the same things day after day & year after year to be boring. We do this because we believe that change is exciting and that there are still places that we have not yet seen, experiences that we have not had, roads that we have never traveled, and people that we have not yet met! 

There are few issues that can't be managed while living in an RV. We lived with no real estate anywhere for 12 years and then due to my wife's serious medical issues that required extended care we got a home-base again. But because we still love the life that we found on the road, we still leave in our RV and travel for 3 to 5 months at a time, picking up the lifestyle we came to love, just as though we were still fulltimers. In our 12 years on the road our list of places to see and things to experience kept getting longer as each new stop, someone we met would give us two more to add to our list. I can't imagine living long enough to run out of new places to visit.

Some folks are quite happy to be spectators in the stands, but in the game of life, we came to play!

[WeBeFulltimers]

If you feel the need of being talked into it DON'T DO IT! We have been doing it for 8.5 years and find it not to be cheaper. We did not change our standard of living.

[scouserl41]

We full time because we love to travel and meet new people. We can afford to live in a S&B but it ties us to the same places all the time. We travelled and camped all our working lives, by motorcycle, by car when the kids came along. We were never "Vacationers", sitting on a beach or in some nightclub would bore us to death.

We had pretty much made up our minds that we wanted to hit the road when we retired. When we camped at weekends and on vacation I always got depressed when it was time to pack up the tent and go home. I dreamed of not having to do that. Too ne able to just move on to a new adventure was a tantalizing dream. At that point we didn't know what we wanted to do was called "Full Timing" or that there was anything like SKP's. We had never owned an RV.

Fortunately my DW felt the same way. She was more reluctant to let go of the ties to a fixed home but once we got the process going she got the wanderlust too.

After 4 years we have no urge to settle down, we just finished sketching out some ideas for this year and have thoughts for next year and the year after. We are getting "hitch Itch' after 4 months in our "Winter Quarters"

BnB

[Dutch_12078]

Maybe one indicator of whether you're a potential fulltimer or not is whether you look forward to getting home after an RV trip, or look forward to getting out again as soon as possible. We always kept our disappointment during a return trip home at bay by using the time to start planning the next outing. Then we retired...  

[GR "Scott" Cundiff]

We didn't retire so we could fulltime.  We retired so we could  travel and see the country at a leisurely pace.  It just so happens that fulltiming in a RV is the best way to travel.

We've never imagined that fulltiming is cheaper than living in a house.  We know, though, that traveling in a RV while also owning and maintaining a house is more expensive than having just one or the other.  

[Roadtrek 1]

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this question, I really appreciate your comments.  Yes, everyone's situation is different.   

We have three houses, live in one and rent the other two.  I even thought about renting out the RV when I wasn't using it, but, after carefully looking into it, I discovered that without commercial insurance this is a NOT a good idea.  A lot of people use an insurance rider with a third party rider or some other arrangement like asking for a certificate of insurance from the renters..... both of these have serious problems.    And commercial insurance is very expensive... You can temporarily suspend the rental agreement on the commercial insurance or ask the renters to pay a daily rate and share the cost...MBT Insurance explained all of this to me, BUT, in the end I decided to skip it.  There's two many variables for interior damage, something that even commercial insurance does not cover....or system damage.... you need a separate security deposit for this... they suggested $2,500.  Another unintended consequence of renting out the RV is the taxable income...and you have to deal with this as well.....

BUT...this is really for another discussion... maybe I should put this question on a different thread? 

Regarding full time vs. part time....... here's the way I look at this;  if it works for you, great!   For me, I love my house, have been here more than 36 years and don't have any weather issues.  Our home has increased so much, it's a hedge against inflation, low property taxes, and pretty low maintenance.  It has the capability of hanging around longer than us. 

 An RV, even a  brand new 40 foot model with all the amenities, washer and dryer,  modern kitchen...and diesel engine would be $350-$400,000...or so....and would probably be falling apart after 20 years and be worth next to nothing.... plus, anything with wheels will always have maintenance and repairs... eventually the engine and transmission will fail.   Look, I'm not saying that you never need repairs and maintenance on the house, but we don't have to worry about the thing breaking down stranded on the road ....

I don't know about you...but trying to live in a 23 foot Class B is not a capital idea.... I would imagine that most of you living full time are in a 40 foot model...

And... you can spin this anyway you like.... after 20 years... my RV or yours will NOT be worth anything ... the house on the other hand will be worth a lot more....When I purchased the RV.... I figured.... three out of four isn't bad....I have three appreciating assets and one depreciating one.

Then ... where do you park something like that unless you plan on going to Quartzite for 6 months ...😁😁😁. Many cities are NOT RV friendly...and going from park to park whether it's an RV, National Park or State Park is like a being in a shark tank constantly moving.... Most National Parks, even some RV parks have limited space for a 40 foot RV..... they usually have a 32 foot limit.    And, many places won't let you park a vehicle that's older than 10 years... another problem...

I can also understand why most people in a 40 foot Class A feels the need for a small tow vehicle... it's a permanent appendage you carry everywhere.... more to deal with.... sorry.... I just don't get it....

One of the main reasons I purchased the smaller Class B Sprinter is we can easily park this at our house and it gets 18 MPG... which means we don't have to worry about excessive fuel consumption..... over time... fuel is one of the largest expensive items you purchase.... an RV getting 6 or  7 MPG  vs. a rig that gets 18 MPG...  didn't want the MPG to hold me back from anywhere I wanted to go.....100,000 miles of driving in the Sprinter would cost $17,000.... while 100,000 miles at 6- 7 MPG would be around $50,000..... that's a huge significant difference. 

We love to travel.... we went across the USA in a big perimeter circle meandering to wherever we wanted to go.......11,000 miles...We visited many great places... it was wonderful , lots of memories and pictures, .... but, it was fantastic to return home..  we were very happy to return... When we got home...we decided that we would never be able to do do this on a 24/7/365 day basis.... just not our style.  What do you do about all your friends that you leave behind?   Sure, we have friends in many different places.. not just here, but..... it's still a loss. 

 On the RV.... there's more DRAMA....than driving my car.   The car is older and has twice the miles... it's a gas engine though.... probably easier overall.     The Sprinter is very easy to drive, but, it's not as easy or as smooth as my car.... and certainly can't go everywhere... As an example...we once went to Sequoia National Park ...and took our car down an unmaintained road to see the Chicago Stump....you would never be able to get there with an RV... 

Our Sprinter, even though it's a 2012 RV conversion  ( 2011 vehicle)  has had issues on more than one occasion...glow plugs once and exhaust back pressure sensor.... fortunately, we were close enough to a Mercedes Benz Sprinter dealership.... but.... they are not everywhere......and we're been very lucky to have been close enough for the AAA.... let me be clear, we have never needed a tow... however, I don't want to find out...it's very expensive to get towed... something like $2 per mile..   I'm very grateful to Mercedes Benz for replacing and updating my entire emissions system under warranty.... hopefully that will last for a long time.

The weight of the RV is so much I really felt like we needed a diesel and it's remarkably quiet.... just slightly noiser than my car EXCEPT  climbing mountains when the car has to use higher RPMs ....and then the diesel engine is actually quieter.... it develops power at a much lower RPM ...  

SO.... I hope you really enjoy your full time travels...  Again, I think it's great if that's what you want.    We're more likely going to sell the RV in a few years...it's a lot of fun, but, we just got back from a road trip with the car and staying in hotels.... just as much fun...

We found that... using applications like Priceline ...we could save 50 percent off of the normal price ... wound up staying in decent places for only $25 to $30 more than staying in RV parks...  Now.. maybe a lot of you just boon dock and pay zero....we like staying where we have power.... most of those places are at least $40 per night.... sometimes more..... when you factor in the fuel, RV parks and maintenance of the vehicle.... you're not saving any money driving the RV ....it might be less expensive to take the car and stay in hotels?      Hotels are open all night...and you can drive longer and faster than any RV..... most RV parks you need to check in by 9 or 10 PM....

Again...it's all about "life style".....

 

 

 

[Barbaraok]

All of the above shows fulltiming isn’t for you.  You don’t need to explain to us.  

[mptjelgin]

You obviously have some very strong ideas about what others "must" be doing and virtually all of them are wrong in our case.  We're starting on our tenth year of full-timing and we've never stayed at Quartzite for a day, let alone six months. We don't have a 40' diesel pusher. We don't have problems finding places to stay. I'm still in touch with friends and family that I "left behind". 

And I think that most folks have made it very clear that they are not full-timing to save money. I don't feel the need to "spin" the depreciation of an RV in any particular way. I understand the cost of owning it and feel that the benefits outweigh the cost for us. You seem really fixated on cost so perhaps that is a more significant issue for you.

You are part-time and using a 23' Class "B". You obviously have no interest in full-timing and apparently not much in RV'ing if you are planning to sell your rig and go back to hotels.  And that's fine. But why go on and on about the costs, maintenance and "inconvenience" or RV's, appreciation of real property vs. depreciation of RV's, etc. This is not new information to anyone who has responded regarding full-timing.

Are you trying to convince yourself or others about something?

[Dutch_12078]

As the others have said, you're obviously not cut out for fulltime RV'ing. You also have many misconceptions about those of us that do enjoy our version of RV life. There are as many ways to fulltime probably, as there are fulltimers, since no two of us handle it exactly the same. We live quite happily in our now 18 year old 34' gasser for instance, and have never been to Quartzite. Our preference is state and national parks, usually with at least electric hookups. We prefer to travel to a region, and then spend a week or two each in various parks there so we can better explore the areas features. For the winter, we prefer the southeast, and are currently moving every couple of weeks to various state and national parks in southern GA and FL, winding up at a National Forest Service park in NC in April as we start drifting northward following the weather. Cost wise, the NFS park we're in right now in FL cost us $22/night with our Senior Access Pass, and we have full hookups with free park wide WiFi available. The state parks average out to about $24/night. We do hit private parks more often for overnights while moving between destinations, and out of probably 200+ private parks, we've never been turned away by an age limitation.

As far as depreciation goes, we prefer buying older RV's that have already depreciated significantly, so our up front costs are minimal. Yes, buying older can mean higher maintenance costs, although we haven't found that to be burden so far. Vehicle wise, outside of routine maintenance items, over the past 5 years the most costly repair part we've needed for this coach was a $35 cruise control switch on the master cylinder. It took me all of 10 minutes to change it. On the RV side, yes, there have been more repair expenses than that, but still nothing bank busting. We did swap the original RV fridge for a residential fridge, but that was more of an upgrade than a repair.

As also said, to each their own... We enjoy our way of life, and I certainly hope you're enjoying your way of life as well.

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Again...it's all about "life style".....

It's OK that you don't want to be a full time RVer. If someone is pushing you to do so it is not anyone on this forum. Relax and, as it's often said today, "You do you."

Linda

[remoandiris]

If you like where you live, be happy where you are.  If you don't like where you live, an RV gives you the ability to EASILY move.  

Wife and I are tired of Florida.  We like to travel.  We have an RV.  No reason to NOT full time starting next month.  Current plan is 6 months in MT,  then Mesa for the winter.  Next year 6 months in one place (mountains of NM or maybe CO) then somewhere south for the winter.

Medical issues will be dealt with as needed.

As for cheaper than a house, within the next 10 years, my house will need a new roof, new air con, new water heater, new, new, new, so probably $40K.  Living in a house isn't exactly cheap, despite appreciation.  And, of course, the property could always depreciate if the market bottoms out, but that really only matters if one needs to sell.  If not, it would likely take a decade for the property to get back it's value...just like the fallout in the early-mid 2000s.  

I'm sure we'll get off the road sooner or later.  May buy another house, may buy a condo, may live in the RV, just not travel anywhere.  Who cares?  It's our lives to live.