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MARICOPA COUNTY AIR POLLUTION CONTROL REGULATIONS REGULATION III – CONTROL OF AIR CONTAMINANTS

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 If you are looking for regular windshield fluid in Maricopa county Az. It may not be available . They have a law similar to California for washer fluid that will not protect from freezing.

  Only antifreeze good to 32 degrees. Is allowed to be sold .

 

 There is more interesting reading in the law if you read it.

RULE 344
AUTOMOTIVE WINDSHIELD WASHER FLUID 

  Just a thought,.   Vern

Edited by Wrknrvr

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  Yesterday i went to O'riley's auto parts to buy some windshield antifreeze for our jeep and for our HDT.

  The sales person explained that it is not legal to sell that type of antifreeze in Maricopa county.  I said what do you mean, you cannot sell that type of anti freeze. They can only sell windshield washer fluid that does not protect below 32 degrees.

  She said if you go to Congress Az to the gas station you can purchase it there.

  We may be in Calizonia?

  Yes, in  California it is not allowed to be sold in most of the state there either.

 

 So if you are in Congress Az at this moment you windshield washer fluid may be sorta stiff this am.

 

 

  Just never thought about windshield washer fluid could be illegal.

 

  Just thinking ,.   Vern

Edited by Wrknrvr

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I’m in Suprise a suburb of Phoenix. Just got up and there is frost on the roof of my Jeep. It’s 34 degrees. But no frost of the windshield. Crazy AZ law, can’t buy windshield fluid to prevent freezing. 

California: Majarina legal, straws illegal, plastic bags illegal, wind washer fluid antifreeze illegal, background check to buy ammo, and now they want to tax water. 

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Do any of you understand what being in an air quality non-attainment area means?  It is all about reducing VOCs in the air.  VOC = volitile organic compounds.  High levels cause LOTS of problems.  And air quality in the Phoenix area can be pretty bad. 

Windshield washer fluid is for WASHING windows, not de-icing.  Throw some heat on the windshield and you’ll be just fine. 

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I love the Rain X brand of fluid because it seems to work well on the bugs in the Southwest (they are made of superglue and carbon fiber apparently).  No idea what its temp rating is.  What about ordering from Amazon?  Also you know you can simply add methanol to any washer fluid to make it freeze proof?

 

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2 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Do any of you understand what being in an air quality non-attainment area means?  It is all about reducing VOCs in the air.  VOC = volitile organic compounds.  High levels cause LOTS of problems.  And air quality in the Phoenix area can be pretty bad. 

Windshield washer fluid is for WASHING windows, not de-icing.  Throw some heat on the windshield and you’ll be just fine. 

Actually, in cold climates, an anti-freeze windshield washer fluid is a necessity.  You don't want to have your reservoir freeze up on you and burst.  I suppose they don't consider that an issue in the Phoenix area since it doesn't freeze often.

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There is no place in the Phoenix metro where the fluids would freeze.  Even if we hit under 32, it's just for a short time in the middle of the night.  Even our plants mostly survive this kind of freezing.

I love reading these threads because I am totally unprepared for any freezing weather camping.  I'm learning.  We will do what we can to avoid it, but still want to know how to do it.  Well, outside of our sort-of-freezing in this area.  We recently camped in Prescott with an overnight low of 25, but 55 day.  So no preparation needed.

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22 minutes ago, chirakawa said:

Actually, in cold climates, an anti-freeze windshield washer fluid is a necessity.  You don't want to have your reservoir freeze up on you and burst.  I suppose they don't consider that an issue in the Phoenix area since it doesn't freeze often.

This is not a cold climate, like Flagstaff.  This is an area with an air quality problem.  Different areas require different maintenance.  If you’re not here, why all the consternation about local requirements.

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19 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

This is not a cold climate, like Flagstaff.  This is an area with an air quality problem.  Different areas require different maintenance.  If you’re not here, why all the consternation about local requirements.

You're the one who brought up "de-icing".  I merely pointed out that windshield washer fluid is not just for "de-icing".  It's used like antifreeze in your engine block, it keeps the washer reservoir from freezing and bursting.

And, I agreed with you, it may not be necessary in Phoenix because it doesn't get that cold there.  However, I can surely understand why people who live in Phoenix might want to be able to put antifreeze type washer fluid in their vehicle.  Some people do actually leave Phoenix and go to areas where it does freeze hard.

As far as the consternation, you'll have to ask the OP.  I don't give a rat's a$$.

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You are conflating the two fluids and they are NOT necessarily the same fluid in all parts of the country, nor in all parts of any state.  Generally ethylene glycol is not used in windshield washer fluid because of its toxicity for mammals.  Methanol is used in some which isn’t as toxic, but can still do a lot of harm to mammals.  Problem with methanol is that it is very volatile thus adding to VOC levels in an area, thus the restrictions in the Phoenix area.  

Edited by Barbaraok

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27 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

Problem with methanol is that it is very volatile thus adding to VOC levels in an area, thus the restrictions in the Phoenix area.  

Isn't it possible that the restriction on sales of it may come from the EPA because they are an air quality non-attainment area?  

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Yes, it is part of the requirements that the air agreeded to to lessen effects on air quality in Phoenix.  Just like the things all of the big cities in Texas do, including testing tail pipe emissions.

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2 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

You are conflating the two fluids and they are NOT necessarily the same fluid in all parts of the country, nor in all parts of any state.  Generally ethylene glycol is not used in windshield washer fluid because of its toxicity for mammals.  Methanol is used in some which isn’t as toxic, but can still do a lot of harm to mammals.  Problem with methanol is that it is very volatile thus adding to VOC levels in an area, thus the restrictions in the Phoenix area.  

Are you responding to me?  I know you're not that dense.  I never said that radiator antifreeze is the same as windshield washer antifreeze. 

I'm quite familiar with the difference between the two substances.  The comparison I made is that they are each used to protect something from freezing in a vehicle.  If you think that washer fluid is built to not freeze simply to de-ice your windshield, then you haven't been paying attention.  The reservoir where it is stored will freeze, swell up, and burst open like an engine block if you go into a cold climate with washer fluid that isn't protected against freezing.

 

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 Just for a update, I did buy a gallon that will protect to -25 in Congress Az today. Several miles north west of the Maricopa county line at a Dollar store. The Texaco station did not have it.

 Now I did see ice in a container today that was in the shade beside our Rv at 1:30 pm. A few weeks ago it froze here at the north ranch and it busted my plastic tee on the water supply.

 Since I have to fill our jeep fluid and our HDT that holds a few gallons of fluid I did not want to put in freezable fluid as we are leaving for Montana and there will be some cold temps on the way home.

 Now this am I had 22 degrees on the back of the jeep.

 I was not trying to get a negative discussion , just making a statement, because I never heard of that law before.

 

 Glad to be from Montana,.   Vern

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I live in Peoria, and we have a restriction on off-road driving now because of an EPA air quality mandate.  As long as dust remains high, no off-roading in the city.

Phosphate is something else that has been outlawed, in detergents.  This is why dishwashers seemingly got less efficient some years ago.  So we buy boxes of TSP to use in the dishwasher and clothes washer.

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5 hours ago, chirakawa said:

Are you responding to me?  I know you're not that dense.  I never said that radiator antifreeze is the same as windshield washer antifreeze. 

I'm quite familiar with the difference between the two substances.  The comparison I made is that they are each used to protect something from freezing in a vehicle.  If you think that washer fluid is built to not freeze simply to de-ice your windshield, then you haven't been paying attention.  The reservoir where it is stored will freeze, swell up, and burst open like an engine block if you go into a cold climate with washer fluid that isn't protected against freezing.

 

So you are going to explain colligative properties to me?  BTW my undergrad degree is in Chemistry and masters in Chem Eng focusing on hazardous materials.  I spent 20 yrs doing Env, Health and Safety work, including monitoring for compliance under all sorts of permits.  

The regulation does not say anything about the fluid having no ability to lower the freezing point of water.  It only limits the amount of VOCs to 10% by weight.  ANY SUBSTANCE added to water will lower the freezing point of the water.  How low is determined by the number of particles when dissolved in the water.  Thus the original post contains inaccurate information.

Since very low temperatures are not the norm in the valley, limiting the amount of VOCs in windshield washing fluid is a good trade off in the overall effort to meet air quality standards.  

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7 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

So you are going to explain colligative properties to me?  BTW my undergrad degree is in Chemistry and masters in Chem Eng focusing on hazardous materials.  I spent 20 yrs doing Env, Health and Safety work, including monitoring for compliance under all sorts of permits.  

The regulation does not say anything about the fluid having no ability to lower the freezing point of water.  It only limits the amount of VOCs to 10% by weight.  ANY SUBSTANCE added to water will lower the freezing point of the water.  How low is determined by the number of particles when dissolved in the water.  Thus the original post contains inaccurate information.

Since very low temperatures are not the norm in the valley, limiting the amount of VOCs in windshield washing fluid is a good trade off in the overall effort to meet air quality standards.  

You're a real piece of work.  You are the one who said " Windshield washer fluid is for WASHING windows, not de-icing".  I simply tried to explain to you that washer fluid is made to not freeze so that it won't freeze in the reservoir and destroy the washer fluid system.  De-icing may be a side benefit.

I once again agree (for the third time) that this quality is probably not necessary in the Phoenix area because it seldom freezes there.  You're so intent on impressing everyone with your chemistry degree that you can't understand a simple mechanical concept when presented to you.  I'm done trying to explain it to you.

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Make your own.  Just add a squirt of dishwashing soap and some hardware store alcohol and fill the reservoir with water.

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