Embezzlement scandal rocks Hymer/Roadtrek

[docj]

For those who aren't aware, Erwin Hymer is Europe's largest motorhome manufacturer.  In 2016 Hymer purchased Roadtrek of Kitchner Ontario.  Last fall Thor announced an intent to purchase Hymer in a multi-billion euro deal.

Today, Hymer North America was rocked by a scandal which is said to involve over $100M in falsified invoices.  The impact of the scandal on the Thor acquisition is not yet known.

$100M embezzlement scandal rocks Hymer North America

[rynosback]

WOW!!

 

[sandsys]

Maybe I should buy one my local dealer has in stock since they may become harder to get in the future? One is an SS Agile with the E-trek package that sure appeals to me.

Linda Sand

[docj]

11 hours ago, sandsys said:

Maybe I should buy one my local dealer has in stock since they may become harder to get in the future?

Hymer is a huge company and, no doubt, they will weather this storm.  It might cause the Thor acquisition to pause or stop but the chances are, more likely, that the acquisition price will be changed a bit to reflect the "cooked books."

My suspicion is that the "due diligence" that would be required as part of the proposed acquisition of Hymer by Thor is what brought this to light. I've been through divestitures and acquisitions by public companies and the due diligence can be very thorough!

[whj469]

Now in the US the CEO is required to sign the reporting documents and they are held responsible. Remember Ken Lay and Enron? I can only hope that the responsible people will end up in jail? Often many people get hurt because of the greed of others.

[docj]

1 hour ago, whj469 said:

Now in the US the CEO is required to sign the reporting documents and they are held responsible

Here's a link to a slightly later  report which also includes an email from the (former?) CEO claiming that the story is false: https://rvdailyreport.com/industry/erwin-hymer-north-america-rocked-by-scandal/  No "official" statement has been released. 

In this case presumably the company is a Canadian subsidiary of a corporate based in the EU.  Who knows what rules apply? 😁

[jeomelia]

From Mike Wendal's site: 

https://roadtreking.com/roadtrek-hymer-scandal/

[Kirk W]

In addition to the last two posts, I just found the following statement from Thor on Yahoo finance.

Quote

ELKHART, Ind., Jan. 21, 2019 /PRNewswire/ --

Thor Industries, Inc. (THO) today provided an update on its pending acquisition of the Erwin Hymer Group (EHG).  The Company announced that Thor and the sellers are finalizing discussions to exclude EHG's North American operations from Thor's purchase of EHG.  Thor and EHG are currently negotiating appropriate revisions to the terms of the stock purchase agreement including adjustments to the purchase price and assumed liabilities as a consequence of the exclusion of EHG's North American operations.

 

 

[Basil Bourque]

On 1/18/2019 at 8:20 PM, sandsys said:

Maybe I should buy one my local dealer has in stock since they may become harder to get in the future? One is an SS Agile with the E-trek package that sure appeals to me.

You may get a good deal, but keep in mind that your warranty may be worthless. After (A) a $100 million theft and (B) being dropped by Thor Industries from the purchase of Erwin Hymer Group worldwide, the Erwin Hymer Group North America company (Roadtrek, Hymer, Carado, & Sunlight brands) will be left on its own, and may very well go into bankruptcy. Too early to tell if the company will be able to remain functional or not.

[SnowGypsy]

They have laid off more than 800 employees, that has to be devastating!  https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/erwin-hymer-financial-documents-paint-a-bleak-picture-1.4301697  I did notice at rvtrader that all of a sudden, several 2019s have been listed.  I would be concerned about warranty although, as with other RVs, many items would be covered under separate manufacturer warranties.  I cannot imagine that, if bought by someone else, that they would honor the warranties from Roadtrek/Hymer as that would be unusual for a company to do.  Also, value if the units become "orphaned" would be questionable.

[Roadtrek 1]

The local Roadtrek dealership said that they were providing a 5 year warranty on any new unit. Also Roadtrek has been around for 45 years. Another company will likelybuy them out and continue.

[docj]

17 minutes ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

The local Roadtrek dealership said that they were providing a 5 year warranty on any new unit. Also Roadtrek has been around for 45 years. Another company will likelybuy them out and continue.

IMHO a dealership warranty without a guarantee of parts support from the manufacturer is not worth all that much.  We owned a Roadtrek and loved it, but at this point I wouldn't put any money on one without knowing more.  If Hymer North America formally goes into bankruptcy, there's no guaranty that it will get acquired at all or that an acquiring company will honor warranty commitments of the acquired company.  Under bankruptcy rules, I don't think they're obligated to do so.

[dewilso]

Remember, all of the "stuff" that usually breaks down like TV, water pump, water heater, microwave & etc are standard units & have their own manufacturers warranty. Other "stuff" like cabinets that won’t close, window leaks & such, most anyone can fix, IF the parts are available. Seeing the prices available & knowing that you can hammer on the dealer, I’d probably jump on one if I didn’t have a new Winnebago Travota on order. One caution, & its a BIG one, you want to make sure that the unit is the dealers to sell and it’s not still a Hymer/RT asset.

[Roadtrek 1]

2 hours ago, docj said:

IMHO a dealership warranty without a guarantee of parts support from the manufacturer is not worth all that much.  We owned a Roadtrek and loved it, but at this point I wouldn't put any money on one without knowing more.  If Hymer North America formally goes into bankruptcy, there's no guaranty that it will get acquired at all or that an acquiring company will honor warranty commitments of the acquired company.  Under bankruptcy rules, I don't think they're obligated to do so.

Which year and model Roadtrek did you have, just curious.  Mine is a 2012 RS Adventurous...it's been a pretty good coach...I purchased it used in  May 2017 with 26,000 miles and now has almost 44,000.   We had to replace a cracked sewer hose macerator and it needed some generator repairs from "lack of use"..... When we purchased it.. only had 15 hours on the generator.....and I discovered that this was not enough...it's a propane unit and they need exercise 2 hours per month according to the owners manual.....

On the dealership warranty.... I asked them about the availability of getting service and they said...YES...it was good anywhere..... I didn't look at the details on this because I don't intend to get a new coach and the whole reason I purchased the used rig....(we're the second owners),. was because I could save on the depreciation...

We paid $79,000 plus tax... which seemed like a good deal, especially when I looked at new units in 2017... that had similar equipment to ours on the lot listing at $152,000... seemed like 26,000 miles and five years was not worth an extra $73,000.  I would also have had to pay the additional sales tax..... Our tax is 9.75 %....that extra amount on the $152,0000 would have been almost $167,000 vs. my total cost of $87,000.... What can I say...it adds up fast. 

I don't know...a lot of people probably think that these Class B's shouldn't be this expensive... they are probably right... it's a lot of money for a smaller space.  I just wanted a vehicle that would be extremely easy to drive, set up and get decent MPG. It's pretty nicely finished on the inside. 

Unfortunately.... Erwin Hymer.... had a number of internal problems, and they built a number of really low end coaches... like the Carrado, Sunlight and some others. The RS Adventurous, the CS Adventurous and the E-TREK ( which is an electrified RS Adventurous model) are pretty top of the line Class B's.   I went to the dealership and a couple of RV shows and looked at the entire line on the lot.   I understand there's a price point for everything and everyone.....

We'll see if they rise up from the ashes like the Phoenix....if not, oh well. It wouldn't be the first time an RV manufacturer goes out of business.    A lot of the internal components are from other sources and the chassis is still on the Mercedes Benz Sprinter 3500...I like the vehicle just fine.....it is definitely MORE expensive to maintain......

Again...it's a wait and see...

 

 

[Roadtrek 1]

1 hour ago, dewilso said:

Remember, all of the "stuff" that usually breaks down like TV, water pump, water heater, microwave & etc are standard units & have their own manufacturers warranty. Other "stuff" like cabinets that won’t close, window leaks & such, most anyone can fix, IF the parts are available. Seeing the prices available & knowing that you can hammer on the dealer, I’d probably jump on one if I didn’t have a new Winnebago Travota on order. One caution, & its a BIG one, you want to make sure that the unit is the dealers to sell and it’s not still a Hymer/RT asset.

I'm sure that any reputable dealership would sell you a vehicle with clear title...if they did not it would jeopardize their business.    

 

[rynosback]

As long as they have the point of orgin/certificate of orgin your good.  The point of orgin/certificate of orgin is the title from the manufacture showing ownership.

[docj]

11 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Which year and model Roadtrek did you have, just curious

We had a 2000 190 Versatile built on a Dodge chassis.  It was our first motorized RV.

11 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

It wouldn't be the first time an RV manufacturer goes out of business. 

What is a bit unusual in this case IMO is that the company would be going out of business due to improprieties on the part of its executives.  The execs appear to have embezzled millions out of the company leaving nothing but an empty shell.  So sad IMO.

[Roadtrek 1]

1 hour ago, docj said:

We had a 2000 190 Versatile built on a Dodge chassis.  It was our first motorized RV.

Did you purchase it brand new and how long did you have it ? 

Did you drive a lot of miles on this rig?   I have met a few people who said they used their Class B's as a second car.   Did you ? 

[docj]

2 hours ago, Roadtrek 1 said:

Did you purchase it brand new and how long did you have it ? 

Did you drive a lot of miles on this rig?   I have met a few people who said they used their Class B's as a second car.   Did you ? 

Yes, we bought it new and we did take several significant vacations in it.  We sold it in 2005 to trade up to something with a bit more cabin space (a Coach House B+).  

No, we didn't use it as a second car.  We already owned two vehicles and using a big van as a daily driver in the suburban DC area wasn't a pleasant or practical experience (parking garages, etc).  

[Roadtrek 1]

Just now, docj said:

Yes, we bought it new and we did take several significant vacations in it.  We sold it in 2005 to trade up to something with a bit more cabin space (a Coach House B+).  

No, we didn't use it as a second car.  We already owned two vehicles and using a big van as a daily driver in the suburban DC area wasn't a pleasant or practical experience (parking garages, etc).  

I understand, DC is a very congested area.    How many miles did you actually put on this vehicle and do you remember what you price you got when you sold it?   Dealer trade?    I've seen the Coach House RVs,  they are very nice.

I see you keep trading up for larger and larger RVs.?  Your 2000 Beaver Patriot 40 foot model is evidence of that. 

[docj]

I honestly don't recall how many miles we put on it or what we got for it as a trade.   FWIW the Coach House was a serious disappointment.  Interior quality was not what we expected and there was very little exterior storage.  A bad investment from our perspective.

[Roadtrek 1]

2 hours ago, docj said:

I honestly don't recall how many miles we put on it or what we got for it as a trade.   FWIW the Coach House was a serious disappointment.  Interior quality was not what we expected and there was very little exterior storage.  A bad investment from our perspective.

WOW... that's unfortunate.   I thought that Coach House were better than that? 

Guess I was wrong.   Glad that you liked the Roadtrek though....