Updating banking address issues

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, Carlos said:

So yeah, I guess they still think they need an address even if they don't.

Try getting any of those without any local address.... 

[docj]

On 2/4/2019 at 7:41 PM, Twotoes said:

I have friends who just went full time last summer. They are not Escapees members yet so they used a private mail forwarding service in So Dakota. Within a month it went out of business and they had to switch to another mail forwarding service. Found out that the rule/law had changed in July and many institutions would not take their PMB and now require a physical address. He was not grandfathered. He had a hell of a time finding health insurance too using a So Dakota PMB. 

With all due respect, the Escapees mail service address is labeled a PMB by the software used by financial institutions just as are all the  PMB's of other mail services.  I don't have any issue with the Escapees mail forwarding service, but it's not any better than any of the others.  We had also used the SD mail service that went out of business this summer.  Once I found out about it, within 24 hours we were up and running with a new address in Sioux Falls.   None of my accounts had any problems accepting my new PMB address, although some are more sensitive than others to having the letters "PMB" in the address block.  But calling it a "suite" or an "apartment" was acceptable to those that had issues with PMB.

[rynosback]

8 hours ago, Carlos said:

Does anyone actually really get mail?  I mean, all statements and things like that are electronic, nearly all notices are electronic, etc...  So basically the box just needs to be there for them to send you a card or whatever, and just as a holdover from the past to some extent.  Hopefully soon everyone will catch up to tech, and maybe just ask where you want your stuff sent THIS WEEK instead of assuming you have a permanent address.  When I've needed an Amex card replacement, they ALWAYS ask me where I would like it sent, assuming that I might be traveling.

 

Tax documents and vehicle registration.  All bills are electronic.

[sandsys]

It's not always what wording you use in your address. If the business has a database that says your mail forwarder is a business not a residence you are stuck with that. Saying people should change the PMB to a suite won't solve that problem.

Linda

[Twotoes]

docj, you were grandfathered and allowed to use a PMB. My friends were new to fulltiming and could not use a PMB. That is why you had no  problem and they did. 

[rynosback]

I am not sure when the “grandfathering” took place.  I would guess it would be when the Patriot Act was passed.  As that is why I had issues with financial institutions.  But I would not think that you could be grandfathered from that.  As it is a compliance mandate from the Federal Government for financial institutions.

[sandsys]

26 minutes ago, rynosback said:

I am not sure when the “grandfathering” took place.  I would guess it would be when the Patriot Act was passed.  As that is why I had issues with financial institutions.  But I would not think that you could be grandfathered from that.  As it is a compliance mandate from the Federal Government for financial institutions.

Not everything is made retroactive and some changes are given a grace period and some institutions are not particularly diligent. It could be any of those or something altogether different. We'll never know; will we?

[Carlos]

I'm not sure what "grandfathered' means here.  So I'll tell you what I've done and  what others could try.  I've been off-grid for 18-22 years.  I'm not full time, I just think that nobody needs to know where I live, *especially* the government.  The power and privacy should be on my side.  So I started using a UPS box around 20-25 years ago.  I ignored the BS about making your address say "PMB."  I mostly used "Apt. A104-457" for personal, and "STE A104-457" for business.  It has all worked.  I just got a TT loan to my UPS box address.  In the last year I opened accounts with Chase and Citi using this:

6635 W. Happy Valley Rd
#A104-457
Glendale, AZ 85310

In recent previous years I used that to get get Amex, Discover, and Synchrony accounts.  Maybe the keys are to never use the term "PMB,"" use only Apt #, and also NEVER answer accurately.  "Is this your residence?"  Yup!

No real problems.  A couple of banks asked "is this your home address" and I just said "yes."  Only ONE has seriously questioned it, and we'll see how it goes.  It's Citi, and they keep begging to upgrade my accounts.  I said yeah, and they wanted proof of residency.  Meh, no, bye.  None of the others care.  My license says I live at the UPS store!  The last people I'd give info to is the government, obviously.

 

[docj]

4 hours ago, Carlos said:

In recent previous years I used that to get get Amex, Discover, and Synchrony accounts.  Maybe the keys are to never use the term"PMB,"" use only Apt #, and also NEVER answer accurately.  "Is this your residence?"  Yup!

When I had to quickly change all our addresses from the defunct MyDakotaAddress to MyBestAddress I discovered that some computer systems simply didn't want to accept the letters "PMB" anywhere in the address field.  However, those same systems were quite content to let me use "Suite 214-ABCD" where Suite 214 is MyBestAddress and ABCD is my specific PMB! 

As for the question of "do you own or rent your home?" I always say that we own it because we do own our MH outright and it, not the specific address, is our home!

8 hours ago, Twotoes said:

docj, you were grandfathered and allowed to use a PMB. My friends were new to fulltiming and could not use a PMB. That is why you had no  problem and they did.

AFAIK there were no new rules that took effect this summer.  When I first investigated health insurance (pre-Medicare) ~8 years ago I found one company that wouldn't accept me because of our PMB address, plain and simple.  It had nothing to do with federal rules, but was entirely the policy of that company.  Once we became eligible for Medicare, all our address problems went away with respect to our Medicare supplements.

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, docj said:

I don't have any issue with the Escapees mail forwarding service, but it's not any better than any of the others. 

 

That is just a matter of opinion. Since you have not used Escapees and I have not used whatever service you like, all either of us can really say factually is that we are happy with what we use. The TX Escapee address does have on thing no other service has and that is having been tested through the courts and upheld if that is important to you. 

8 hours ago, sandsys said:

It's not always what wording you use in your address.

I'm not so sure that it is ever your choice of wording. The USPS has a database of business addresses & zip codes that are accessible and I was told that is the cause of many of these problems. 

The proper format of any type of mailing address is set out by USPS regulation, not the Patriot Act or any of those regulations. What the Patriot Act did do was to spell out the acceptable address for their customers. The USPS regulation for mailing addresses to your mail service is still a choice of PMB or # and the box number. You can read the regulation at this link. 

[docj]

6 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

The USPS regulation for mailing addresses to your mail service is still a choice of PMB or # and the box number.

And one of the allowed formats is consistent with the Suite XYZ-ABCD format which I have chosen to use.  

 

8 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

The USPS has a database of business addresses & zip codes that are accessible and I was told that is the cause of many of these problems. 

From what I have seen on a computer screen at my local bank, the database financial (some? many?) institutions use is more than just business addresses vs residential.  It very clearly showed my address (the MyDakotaAddress one) as being a PMB even though I had used "Apt" when giving it to the bank officer.  

[Kirk W]

41 minutes ago, docj said:

And one of the allowed formats is consistent with the Suite XYZ-ABCD format which I have chosen to use.  

From the USPS:  Mail sent to an addressee at a CMRA must include either the PMB identifier or the #, followed by the appropriate private mailbox number. Use of any other identifier is prohibited.

Even so, to date, I have never heard of anyone being penalized for the way they wrote their address, other than possibly the mail not arriving. Even though I have always used either PMB or # when listing an address on forms, many companies convert that to Apt. or Ste. As far as I have ever seen, there is nobody enforcing those regulations. In searching, the only penalty that I have ever found is that the USPS may refuse to deliver to an improper address and I have not heard of that happening either. 

[Sehc]

My drivers license and registrations can be renewed on-line. Not every time with the license, but every year with the registrations. Except! I must use the "pin number" from the form mailed to me by  Motor Vehicle. Different pin each time, snail mail to my address on file.

[Carlos]

In 20 years of doing so, not once has failure to use "PMB" resulted in any problem at all.  Heck, I even get mail when they forget to use the suite number at all.

 

[Zulu]

3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

The TX Escapee address does have on thing no other service has and that is having been tested through the courts and upheld if that is important to you.

Your statement makes it sound like the TX Escapee address is the universal solution, and lo unto anyone opting for a different, lesser mail forwarding service.

Unless things have changed, the only court "test" for the Escapees mail service was in Texas and was limited to a voter registration issue.

[TXiceman]

Hey, don't mess with Texas.  So far it works, so let's just be quiet.

Ken

[Carlos]

They will deliver anything.  I just got something addressed like this (and need to figure out what sort of idiot typed my address like this):

 

Carlos Alvarez
6635 W. Happy Valley Rd.
#A104-457 Glendale AZ
85310-2609
85310-2609 Glendale , AZ
United States

 

[Barbaraok]

6 hours ago, Sehc said:

My drivers license and registrations can be renewed on-line. Not every time with the license, but every year with the registrations. Except! I must use the "pin number" from the form mailed to me by  Motor Vehicle. Different pin each time, snail mail to my address on file.

Obviously you aren’t in Texas.  I always renew before we get the renewal form in the mail, so usually it comes in our shipment from Livingston along with our new registration sticker. 😉

[sandsys]

8 hours ago, Kirk W said:

The TX Escapee address does have on thing no other service has and that is having been tested through the courts and upheld if that is important to you. 

I have been known to be wrong but my memory says what was tested was the right to vote at the Escapee addresses. As far as I know, nothing other than voting rights has ever been tested.

Linda

[docj]

22 minutes ago, sandsys said:

I have been known to be wrong but my memory says what was tested was the right to vote at the Escapee addresses. As far as I know, nothing other than voting rights has ever been tested.

And for the 8 years we have been SD residents we have voted in every election using our mail service PMB address without any problems.  Furthermore, my wife's nursing license and my CDL are both registered at that address.

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, sandsys said:

I have been known to be wrong but my memory says what was tested was the right to vote at the Escapee addresses. As far as I know, nothing other than voting rights has ever been tested.

 

The issue was over the right to vote but the legal issue was that people using the Escapee TX address were not legally residents of Polk County TX. Had it succeeded it would have meant far more than the right to vote. The argument was that using the Rainbow Dr. address did not make you a resident there. 

At the time of the challenge, we were new members of Escapees RV Club and members were updated on the situation frequently with blow by blow reports.

[Carlos]

This is some fun reading:  https://www.texasobserver.org/2860-the-winnebago-vote-how-12000-rvers-tilt-east-texas-elections/

I'm not a lawyer.  Reading the actual decision in Speights vs Willis leads me to believe that the court found that most people using that address are NOT legal residents at all.  However, since the trial was purely about the voting question, not residency, and only about one specific election, the person contesting the vote lost.  That was due to not being able to establish a specific or significant number of people who would not qualify.  So the court ruling leaves the question of residency/domicile by virtue of the address completely open at best.  But more likely, it seems like the court does not consider those people legal residents.  

 

The simple question is whether the address of a mail forwarding service can be a “residence address.” ³  I would hold, as a matter of law, it cannot.⁴  However, even if factual determinations are necessary, there is overwhelming evidence that:  (1) there are, at most, only 29 deed lots on Rainbow Drive (2) Rainbow Drive is about a quarter of a mile long and (3) some 5,000 voters listed their residence address as Rainbow Drive.   Disregarding the uncontroverted evidence that these 5,000 persons were only utilizing the mail forwarding building as their residence address and assuming 29 Rainbow Drive addresses, this translates to 172 persons per address.   There is no evidence that each of these lots contained an apartment building capable of being a home or fixed place of habitation for 172 persons.⁵  Either way, in my view, the 5,000 or so voters in precincts 19 and 20 were not properly registered, therefore they were ineligible voters.   If that is the case, then the true outcome of the election can not be ascertained and the election should be declared void.  Thompson v. Willis, 881 S.W.2d 221, 225 (Tex.App.-Beaumont 1994, no writ).

[Barbaraok]

3 hours ago, Zulu said:

Your statement makes it sound like the TX Escapee address is the universal solution, and lo unto anyone opting for a different, lesser mail forwarding service.

Unless things have changed, the only court "test" for the Escapees mail service was in Texas and was limited to a voter registration issue.

I didn’t read that.  I did read that Kirk was happy with his service, as we are with ours.  And yes, the court case is specific to Texas, which is all that I care about since we are Texas residents.  And of course, this is the Escapees Fourm, so one should expect that a lot of Escapees would be commenting about the service.

[Barbaraok]

Carlos, why the anger?

[Carlos]

Just now, Barbaraok said:

Carlos, why the anger?

No clue what you're talking about.  You want to quote where you think I said something angry?