Sending my guns back to myself

[oldcodger]

We would like to visit Canada and since I want to obey the laws about firearms in our neighboring country can I legally ship them back to my legal address.  I know without proper FFL's you can't use USPS but can you use another common carrier such as UPS or FEDEX as just a private citizen wanting to do the right thing ?

Thanks

Dave

 

 

[noteven]

Hi Dave - you can bring long guns with you to Canada under certain circumstances with pre permit check on CSBA website. 

Safe travels

[remoandiris]

https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download

[Tee Jay]

Go find a local FFl to discuss this.  Most border points have a local FFL who will hold them for a fee until you return.  Lots of dragons on this one.

[packnrat]

shipping guns to yourself in very legal in the USA.

but must be done right or it would be a crime.

in short:

take to a ffl. do not turn them over to him. he can ship them to another "care of ffl" addressed to YOU. that ffl does not open said and you get to pick up your property from him. delay and he returns them to the shipping ffl.

no i have not done this only read a lot about it.  go to  web site https://www.calguns.net

for better info on how to do this the right way.

[Kirk W]

8 minutes ago, remoandiris said:

https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download

Great post and thank you for it! I thought that I was fairly current on the more simple questions, but never knew of this clear frequently asked questions document. Quoting from the ATF document:

Quote

6. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?

Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

 

[beemergary]

May be missing something. Why not just take them with you. Live in USA and been to Ontario-Yukon-British Columbia-Northwest Territories -Alberta with long guns with absolutely no problems.

[Optimistic Paranoid]

19 hours ago, beemergary said:

May be missing something. Why not just take them with you. Live in USA and been to Ontario-Yukon-British Columbia-Northwest Territories -Alberta with long guns with absolutely no problems.

A:  He didn't say long guns, he just said guns.

B: He didn't say western Canada, he just said Canada.

My understanding is that when you fill out the Canadian forms at the border, you have to give an acceptable reason.  Protection from dangerous wildlife is a perfectly acceptable reason out west.  If you're crossing from Maine into the Maritimes, I'm not sure that will fly.

"Protection from dangerous wildlife?  What dangerous wildlife?  We don't have dangerous wildlife here in Nova Scotia!"

[Big5er]

19 hours ago, beemergary said:

May be missing something. Why not just take them with you. Live in USA and been to Ontario-Yukon-British Columbia-Northwest Territories -Alberta with long guns with absolutely no problems.

My Remington Tactical 12ga, in its current configuration, would probably not  be considered a hunting weapon. Most would not consider the AR or the AUG hunting weapons either. Canada would probably frown on allowing any of them across the border. I know a couple that travel with his and hers Tavors. I bet Canada would frown on them also. 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

16 hours ago, Big5er said:

My Remington Tactical 12ga, in its current configuration, would probably not  be considered a hunting weapon.

I have the same problem with my Remington 11/87 shotgun with a two round magazine extension.  Her Majesty's Canadian Government, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that the presence of two extra rounds in the magazine has magically changed a perfectly innocent sporting firearm into an item of pure evil.

[oldcodger]

Thanks to all that have replied. Some things to check on and decide on what is best. Not real concerned about my long guns as I have the paperwork. The "short" guns and "short" gun ammo is the concern at this time. Have several months to plan.

Dave

[Kirk W]

3 minutes ago, oldcodger said:

Have several months to plan.

When we have spent time traveling into Canada I have always just left my firearms with my son or a friend.

[KodiakJack]

Go to the site below and download the form(s) you will need.  (I tied to post it but got a message it was too big.)  Most often they do not look at the firearm(s), just this form. 

Later,

J

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/visit-visite-eng.htm

[Big5er]

This web site has a lot of info about shipping guns to yourself. It is geared toward passing through Canada to Alaska but the info is the same no matter where you ship them to. 

http://www.wolfhawkshipping.com

[jblo]

I used Wolfhawk back in '16 when we went to Alaska.  Got info from Wolfhawk about what I needed to do. Stopped at a FFL/Pawn Shop in Bellingham, WA, and had my Glock shipped to Wolfhawk.   Worked just fine, except to Canada, I must have looked guilty, as they sent the trailer to the bullpen and took the keys.  After about an hour of nervousness, they gave us the keys back with no comments, and away we went.  Picked up the gun at Wolfhawk and stayed in AK about a month. Coming back, stopped again at Wolfhawk and shipped it to Great Falls, where I picked it up.  Can be done if all rules are followed--the overriding item to be obeyed is that the package CANNOT be opened by anyone other than yourself.  Kind of a hassle and shipping/ins not cheap, but got it done. Remember, no guns, no ammo of any kind. If you want to mess with long guns, go for it--can be done. Handguns, NO.

Wolfhawk is in Tok, AK--everybody goes thru Tok, so it isn't out of the way.  He has a small business out in the woods (house) that he works out of. I will do this again if we go back in '20.

[richfaa]

We live fairly close to Canada when we cross the border firearms stay at home.Their country, their laws we respect them.

[Big5er]

I have no issues respecting "their" laws. I just wish there was a way to drive to the rest of "our" country without having to go through "theirs". And for those of us that live in the rv, it is kind of hard to leave them at "home".

[KodiakJack]

1 hour ago, Big5er said:

I have no issues respecting "their" laws. I just wish there was a way to drive to the rest of "our" country without having to go through "theirs". And for those of us that live in the rv, it is kind of hard to leave them at "home".

Our solution is keep some hardware both in Alaska and the states.  Not the best but how it is in today's social/political environment.

Later,

J

[Twotoes]

Many many years ago my brother worked in a gun store and had several customers who wanted their gun purchase shipped to their home. He just disassembled the gun into its parts, shipped the parts in separate boxes, and labeled the boxes machined parts. Not sure if you can still do this today. 

[Tex Bigfoot]

4 hours ago, Big5er said:

I have no issues respecting "their" laws. I just wish there was a way to drive to the rest of "our" country without having to go through "theirs". And for those of us that live in the rv, it is kind of hard to leave them at "home".

you can always take the ferry

[RV_]

When we did Alaska I just did the paperwork and took my Savage 24C Camper's Special with 20ga over .22lr through Canada. I had 20ga. slugs and CCI mini mag for ammo. I was RVing Alaska and Canada not hunting bear. My gun was for emergencies only. If anyone wants to debate a 20 ga for Alaskan Grizz as a backup emergency gun then go here for the debate: 20 ga for Grizz?

Today, were I RVing Alaska again, I would take my Remington 870 express 20 ga. so I have more than one shot. I also have a scoped .308 bolt action, but the Remington pump is lighter and easier/faster shooting multiple rounds for me as no grip changes are needed. (Pump/pull trigger, repeat as needed)

One option not mentioned is to bring a rifle or shotgun through Canada and back, and just order a new or used handgun (good excuse for spousal units objections to buying yet another gun) at the above shop in Tok and then as part of the deal he can ship it to a family member or a dealer just south of the US/Canada border on your return through Tok.

[Optimistic Paranoid]

13 hours ago, Twotoes said:

Many many years ago my brother worked in a gun store and had several customers who wanted their gun purchase shipped to their home. He just disassembled the gun into its parts, shipped the parts in separate boxes, and labeled the boxes machined parts. Not sure if you can still do this today. 

Technically, the receiver or frame - the part with the serial number on it - IS the firearm as far as Federal Law goes.  So if it wasn't legal to ship the gun, it wasn't legal to ship the frame.  And if it IS legal to ship the gun, there's no need to disassemble it.  Everything else, other than the frame, is just gun parts, and anyone can buy them mail order from places like Brownells or Numrich.

[noteven]

Isn’t a short barrel scatter gun better for social work anyways?

 

[Twotoes]

8 hours ago, Optimistic Paranoid said:

Technically, the receiver or frame - the part with the serial number on it - IS the firearm as far as Federal Law goes.  So if it wasn't legal to ship the gun, it wasn't legal to ship the frame.  And if it IS legal to ship the gun, there's no need to disassemble it.  Everything else, other than the frame, is just gun parts, and anyone can buy them mail order from places like Brownells or Numrich.

My brother was shipping from Calif to Canada so it had to be done in parts  

Even when buying via mail order the shipment needs to go thru an FFL. 

[RV_]

John's right about the receiver and shipping.

I hear the no aiming needed all the time. The average self defense shooting occurs at less than 7 feet unless you hang out in areas with a lot of drive by shootings from cars. That is not my part of any town. You will see lots of shotgun patterns shot at 7 yards (21feet) to 30 yards (90 feet.) Across a room is only ~ 10-15 feet (3 to 5 yards.)

On my Air Force Ranges I offered hunting season zeroing in at 25 and 100 Yards as well as shotgun pattern demos. You need to test the size shot you intend to use at the distances you will shoot at.

For self defense you will find the defensive buck shot rounds are still pretty much inside the shot cup at ten feet (3.3 yards.)

I never called anyone who needed our training a moron, because if everyone knew what they needed to know and could always hit a dime at 100 yards then I would be out of a fun job. So their words are not mine. Morons are stupid and you can't fix stupid. But ignorance is teachable. So please disregard the NRA pub author's attempt to put down others to feel bigger.

Excerpt:

"When the topic of using shotguns for home-defense rolls around, I repeatedly hear the same comment from gun store commandos and Internet know-it-alls.

“You don’t need to aim a shotgun. You just point it towards the bad guy and pull the trigger.”

Otherwise sane and intelligent people repeat this comment without ever questioning it. They’re laughably, demonstrably wrong.

Through some weird a quirk of fate, esteemed gun writer Tamara Keel and I just happened to be disproving that falsehood several states away from one another yesterday at the same time while working on two very different projects.

I’m using Winchester’s common 9-pellet 00 buckshot (XB1200) as my “control” round. It’s representative of generations of buckshot with a simple wadding and basic pellets made of relatively soft lead. It’s “old tech,” like Winchester Silvertips are in hollowpoint handgun rounds.

By the way, I’m using a Mossberg 590A1 with a factory 18.5″ barrel and cylinder-bore as my test platform.

Winchester XB1200 is ragged “babyfist” hole at 5 yards, or across decent-sized room.

Unless you live in a relatively large home, your hypothetical across-the-room shot from a barricaded position is going to probably be about 15 feet or less. Both of the loads I tested at this distance created a “pattern”—if you can call a ragged hole a pattern—barely larger than the bore of the shotgun itself.

Federal Premium LE 127 00 buckshot at 5 yards is barely bigger than the diameter of the barrel.

Some of you have larger rooms or hallways, and might need to take a shot from a distance of roughly 7 yards/21 feet."

You can read both his and her articles and test results at this link with more rounds tested.:

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2015/10/23/dont-need-aim-shotgun-says-moron/

In more than 30 years of teaching rifle, shotgun, light to heavy machine guns and sniper rifles, as well as all our USAF pistols from the .38 days to our adoption of the 9mm pistol in the mid 80s and H&K machine pistols, as well as civilian and boy scout classes for handgun defense courses I ran down to the Shooting merit badge, I ran into the shooting since they were knee high to a tadpole types, and you can't teach them a thing. My career spanned 1971-Jan 1998, and after I retired for civilians and cops that needed to qualify but had trouble. We also did the shoulder fired rockets and Mk 19 automatic grenade launchers. Our shotguns were Remington 870 with 18" barrels. There were some Model 12s in the inventory as I started but I never had one in any of my Combat Arms armories. I heard every one of the crazy "mythconceptions." Since I trained the OSI and Security police/forces, we made sure to do the shotgun pattern demo for all our law officers. Made for some very surprised people.

I'd suggest for any defensive weapon one chooses to bet their life on, that they go out and pattern test them and their sights at ranges from 5 feet to 15 feet.

So shotguns with buckshot out to about 15 feet make a pattern about the size of the barrel diameter.

In defense shotgunning, I suggest aiming, knowing your patterns with your gun at defensive distances. Indoors I prefer a .40 cal pistol. with my wife backing me up with my tactically setup 870 20 ga. and her .40 cal. Ours is loaded with slugs for defense. One shotgun has a peep under mounted scope because it is a 20ga Savage Model 24C with .22lr over 20 ga. for small game, bead for birds, scope and .22 for small game. No scope on the tactical 870. Just the ramp and bead.

We both aim our shotguns, because if used for defense, our lives depend on it.