Self-Defense

[FL-JOE]

1 hour ago, RV_ said:

Amen guys. Thanks Fl. Joe, glad you took the time to read it. My views are all expressed in that article I linked to. Security isn't achieved only through the use of guns. Most folks in full fight or flight response will freeze without training and repetition that can kick in. Never mind checking the wind when using pepper sprays that can and have blown back in their user's face.

Just because I own and keep loaded guns in my home, doesn't mean we want to use them.

Would anyone travel in car truck or motor home without a spare or the means to change a tire be that DIY or roadside assistance? Does having a spare tire or fix a flat mean you want to have a blowout? Of course not.

Safe travels!

 

Very good analogy!  

[Optimistic Paranoid]

21 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

If you are forced to shoot someone to defend your life, or the life of a family member, then you should not shoot one time and count on that stopping the threat.  I was trained to shoot and keep hitting my target center mass until the threat is gone.  After most police shootings when you interview the officer involved they almost always underestimate how many rounds they fired.  They quickly fire rounds center mass until the threat goes away and sometimes that can be 10 or 12 rounds but in their mind they only pulled the trigger 2 or 3 times.

Not arguing with you on that.  I wasn't a cop, but I was an armored car guard for a number of years, and I paid my own money to take a bunch of training with people like Mas Ayoob, Lewis Awerbuck, and others.  I think I've got well north of 300 hours in such classes.

My comments were aimed at others here whose knowledge consists entirely of what they've seen on TV and the movies . . .

 

[Kirk W]

On 11/29/2018 at 2:00 AM, Wizards&OZ said:

Does anybody carry any self-defense mechanism with them in their motorhome?

Are you still reading all of this, or has the subject been beaten to death for you? 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

21 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

You only have to be justified in the amount of force you actually use.  Example:  a drunk camper stumbles into your site while you and your wife are sitting around a campfire.  He insists you are in his site and demands you leave.  You try to talk to him but he kicks your wife's chair violently and knocks her over.  He starts to lunge toward you and you grab a piece of firewood and clock him.  He stumbles, trips over the fire, falls and hits his head on a stump and immediately dies.  Of course you have to justify your use of force but just because he died does that mean you used "deadly force"?  Do you wait for him to start stomping your wife's head in while she is laying on the ground?

Again, aimed at people here who want some way to defend themselves but don't want to carry "something that might hurt somebody!"  ANY amount of physical force that you use against another human being has the potential to cause "death or grave bodily harm"  And the fact that you THOUGHT something was "non-lethal" is not an automatic get-out-of-jail-free card.

 

[FL-JOE]

28 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Are you still reading all of this, or has the subject been beaten to death for you? 

I would suspect Kirk you would want this one to go away.

[FL-JOE]

2 hours ago, Optimistic Paranoid said:

 

We could be splitting hairs here so to speak John.  My view will always be tainted due to my background.  A criminal prosecutor can decide to charge about anything against anyone in any situation.  I guess the bottom line is the OP should proceed and go the direction he is comfortable with.

We are probably on the same page with most of this stuff just expressing it slightly differently.

Safe travels.

[motojavaphil]

There was a RV Invasion resulting in the death of the intruder at Walmart, Cedar City, UT.  Another incident in NM did not end well for some RVers being murdered by escaped convicts from AZ as I recall.  I do believe in each situation RVers were percieved as easy prey.  Lock the doors, be aware of surroundings.  Rest areas, Walmarts and such are higher risk than campgrounds so act accordingly.  Difficult targets are passed over in favor of easy ones so small changes in your behavior make you safer.  The use of a firearm should be the last option after other measures have been exercised.  Just some thoughts🤠

[FL-JOE]

8 hours ago, motojavaphil said:

There was a RV Invasion resulting in the death of the intruder at Walmart, Cedar City, UT.  Another incident in NM did not end well for some RVers being murdered by escaped convicts from AZ as I recall.  I do believe in each situation RVers were percieved as easy prey.  Lock the doors, be aware of surroundings.  Rest areas, Walmarts and such are higher risk than campgrounds so act accordingly.  Difficult targets are passed over in favor of easy ones so small changes in your behavior make you safer.  The use of a firearm should be the last option after other measures have been exercised.  Just some thoughts🤠

X2.  Exactly!

You just have to look at the whole picture and use some good old fashion common sense.  Just because someone was full time once, and traveled around safely, certainly does not mean it is safer in an RV as compared to living in your S&B.

If I'm on crack and I really have to get some money, who will I pick on?  Will it be the unknown occupants inside a S&B, or would it be a couple older folks in an RV?

[Pat & Pete]

2 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

X2.  Exactly!

You just have to look at the whole picture and use some good old fashion common sense.  Just because someone was full time once, and traveled around safely, certainly does not mean it is safer in an RV as compared to living in your S&B.

If I'm on crack and I really have to get some money, who will I pick on?  Will it be the unknown occupants inside a S&B, or would it be a couple older folks in an RV?

IF you're on crack , you most likely aren't thinking logically . So , it seems closer to reality that the first 'target' , any target , would be the one to be hit . Doesn't matter RV or otherwise . 

Anyway , trust your gut . 

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

19 hours ago, motojavaphil said:

  Another incident in NM did not end well for some RVers being murdered by escaped convicts from AZ as I recall. 🤠

I remember reading about that.  IIRC, the couple HAD a gun of some sort on board, but it was locked away someplace unloaded because they frequently had grandkids along, or some such.

A gun is useless if it isn't IMMEDIATELY available.

[Pappy Yokum]

On 11/29/2018 at 3:46 AM, Optimistic Paranoid said:

Actually, wasp spray not only is "not much", it's NOTHING.  There is absolutely NO documented evidence that it will stop another human if he is attacking you.

Here's a news story about an intruder who was stabbed to death with a kitchen knife by a wife while he was struggling with her husband, AFTER he had been sprayed with wasp spray, which had no effect.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2529190/Intruder-killed-Crossfit-owners-planned-abduct-rape-wife-attacked-hours-earlier.html

Here's a link to an explanation by a chemist who works for one of the pepper spray manufacturers:

https://www.sabrered.com/blog/why-wasp-spray-won’t-work-self-defense-against-humans-chemist-explains-0

Here's some links to some YouTube videos demonstrating just how useless wasp spray is for self-defense:

Wasp Spray for Self Defense Debunked!

Pepper Spray vs Wasp Spray

 

Wow - great info!  I'm gonna switch to a 12ga for  those darn wasps!!

BTW OP:  This topic has been beaten to oblivion often - as it is once again.

 

[Pappy Yokum]

On 11/29/2018 at 9:25 AM, rm.w/aview said:

With Glenn's post I can see two scenes play out: 

1. The hammer gets pulled back to cock the revolver, villain pauses and says "What was that?"

2. The pump action slams a round into the chamber, villain without pause says, "Oh shit!"

Interesting.   Folks have been banished from the forums for using the term at the end of  your last sentence - even with an asterisk in place of the "i" for "civility".   (Oh s.... er- - -  gee whiz - I can't tell you how I know that).

Guess the mods are getting more mellow or tolerant these days!?

[Optimistic Paranoid]

5 hours ago, Pappy Yokum said:

 

Wow - great info!  I'm gonna switch to a 12ga for  those darn wasps!!

BTW OP:  This topic has been beaten to oblivion often - as it is once again.

 

I recommend #9 birdshot for dealing with wasps.  Or rabid butterflys!

Everybody wants to defend themselves, but nobody wants to accept the reality that you probably have to severely hurt your attacker.  So they're looking for the "magic bullet" that will somehow accomplish both.

Just saw a report that the Chief of Police of Oakland University in MI is issuing hockey pucks to all students and staff for self-defense.  He assures them that throwing hockey pucks at armed felons will "cause a distraction".

Well, I guess it will, if you count "uncontrollable laughter" as a "distraction" . . .