Contaminated Fuel - Pilot

[mptjelgin]

That's good news. I guess this would be covered under the Comprehensive part of the policy since it is damage caused by something other than a collision? 

[Big5er]

On 11/28/2018 at 7:36 AM, FL-JOE said:

Not sure how he pulls in needing diesel and DEF, then leaves with his truck tank full, his auxiliary tank full, plus his DEF tank topped off and it is driver error?

See below.

On 11/30/2018 at 7:45 AM, mptjelgin said:

But my understanding is that it is virtually always a case of a careless owner accidentally introducing DEF into their own fuel tank. The fill caps, while very different, are right next to each other in my new truck. I can see where someone, in an "Oh sh!#" moment could accidentally put DEF into the fuel. And any DEF into the diesel fuel is very bad news. 

I never read where DEF contamination at the pump is an issue, but could certainly be wrong.  

'Nuff said? Sounds like the initial post may have been one big "jumping to conclusions" that seem likely to be incorrect?Especially since it appears that the "friends" own insurance policy is covering the issue rather than Flying J/Pilot.  I thought cops, even self proclaimed retired ones, usually dealt with facts rather than speculation. Too bad that Flying J/Pilot is not on here to defend themselves against these unsubstantiated rumors. 

[Kirk W]

6 minutes ago, Big5er said:

Too bad that Flying J/Pilot is not on here to defend themselves against these unsubstantiated rumors. 

Unfortunately, the Pilot website has no way of contacting them to get their response. 

[Barbaraok]

I would be interested to know what Pilot's response was when the truck owner contacted them about the bad fuel.

[Ray,IN]

Pilot Flying J corporate office HQ  including email, phone numbers, official website.

Pilot Flying J  customer service

[FL-JOE]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:41 PM, mptjelgin said:

I see that you want to treat this as if it ends up as a full-blown legal case and that is fine. That is the world you live in.

What I'm saying is that DEF contamination is not an uncommon occurrence, and at least in the case of Ford they will deny warranty coverage on a $10,000+ dollar high-pressure fuel system repair based on their evaluation and testing. I've read their testing procedure and it is not all that complex or difficult to understand. 

I didn't have much trouble finding independent labs that will conduct similar tests. As far as your more detailed "would it hold up in a court of law" and chain of custody questions, I have no idea. But getting the fuel tested is not an difficult task and would seem to be a reasonable first step given the expense of the repair.  

Unfortunately I had the opportunity to read Big5er's post on this subject which I didn't expect to see since I have him blocked.  He wants to impress with his Police expert training and act like this is some type of murder crime scene or something.  OMG......I can easily find 10 places tomorrow to test my engine oil if I want.  Am I worried about who is in the chain of custody when they test it?  What if they find something wrong that I need to blame on a vendor, will they come to court later and testify?  Big5er needs to stick with weighing and inspecting trucks.  I suspect the only crime scene he has experience with is watching Blue Bloods on Friday nights.

[FL-JOE]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 9:45 AM, Kirk W said:

Unfortunately, the Pilot website has no way of contacting them to get their response. 

Like I just said in another post, I thought I had Big5er blocked but when someone quotes him it shows up on my computer.  If the Pilot at Cornersville TN realized their mistake or the fact that my buddy received contaminated diesel do you really think a citizen could telephone some public relations phone number for them and one of their representatives would sit on the phone and chat with you about it?  

This is a public internet forum.  Anyone can post anything they want, and often times they do.  My only purpose in starting the thread about this incident was to make RVers aware of what happened to my buddy at that particular Pilot.  I think anyone pumping diesel while traveling all over the country should be aware that things like this can happen, even at the big busy truck stops.  I have fueled and a Pilot and a Flying J since this incident.  I just figured my end of the year totals and I purchased just over $9,000 in diesel this year and it all came from Pilot and Flying J stations with the exception of one Shell fill up.  

If an unhappy weight inspector on this forum wants to call what was posted about the incident "rumors" then that is his right to do so.  However, when I get information from other RVers that I think could help someone in the future I will continue to post it.  If others want to make negative comments and dispute everything posted then that is entirely up to them.

[Barbaraok]

On 11/29/2018 at 7:41 PM, mptjelgin said:

I see that you want to treat this as if it ends up as a full-blown legal case and that is fine. That is the world you live in.

What I'm saying is that DEF contamination is not an uncommon occurrence, and at least in the case of Ford they will deny warranty coverage on a $10,000+ dollar high-pressure fuel system repair based on their evaluation and testing. I've read their testing procedure and it is not all that complex or difficult to understand. 

I didn't have much trouble finding independent labs that will conduct similar tests. As far as your more detailed "would it hold up in a court of law" and chain of custody questions, I have no idea. But getting the fuel tested is not an difficult task and would seem to be a reasonable first step given the expense of the repair.  

I believe the reason that Ford does this is not because of problems at fueling stations, but because of problems with USERS.  

[Barbaraok]

Fl Joe,

I find it curious that your friend was the only person who pumped from that pump that day  who had a problem with DEF in fuel. Everyone going through that lane should have had problems if DEF was mixed in with the diesel, either at the tank or in some way at the pump.    Given the numbers that go through those pump each day, there should have been numerous complaints  by truckers (since it was a Pilot, assume no RV Lanes) with a notice going out from Pilor,  or did he fill in the car lanes?  Even if the car lanes, there wouldn't there have been other diesel users who would have been complaining, filing claims?

 

[mptjelgin]

25 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

I believe the reason that Ford does this is not because of problems at fueling stations, but because of problems with USERS.  

 

On 11/30/2018 at 7:45 AM, mptjelgin said:

Better clarify myself here. It is certainly not a common occurrence, but it apparently happens enough that the dealers test for fuel contamination in any case of the fuel system problem, and find DEF enough that it is a "known issue" and grounds for revoking the warranty. Gasoline in the diesel is another issue that is tested for. 

But my understanding is that it is virtually always a case of a careless owner accidentally introducing DEF into their own fuel tank. The fill caps, while very different, are right next to each other in my new truck. I can see where someone, in an "Oh sh!#" moment could accidentally put DEF into the fuel. And any DEF into the diesel fuel is very bad news. 

I never read where DEF contamination at the pump is an issue, but could certainly be wrong.  

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Just went over to truckersreport.com and in the truck stop forum there is no mention of anyone getting bad fuel at that truck stop. They have always been posts about it in the past but not a peep on there about this one and there are a LOT of truckers on that site. I would think that word would have gotten out on there about a contaminated fuel issue.

[FL-JOE]

10 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Fl Joe,

I find it curious that your friend was the only person who pumped from that pump that day  who had a problem with DEF in fuel. Everyone going through that lane should have had problems if DEF was mixed in with the diesel, either at the tank or in some way at the pump.    Given the numbers that go through those pump each day, there should have been numerous complaints  by truckers (since it was a Pilot, assume no RV Lanes) with a notice going out from Pilor,  or did he fill in the car lanes?  Even if the car lanes, there wouldn't there have been other diesel users who would have been complaining, filing claims?

 

I can't answer your question.  Do I understand how he is the only one that pulled out from that pump and had immediate problems? No, I can only speculate how that could have happened based on the few facts he provided.

When he pulled away he pulled up to the stop line.  At that point his truck is running bad so he shuts down and I assume goes inside to see about a mobile tech.  The fuel desk is now aware he could have had an issue.  I don't know if there was a big rig in line behind him that was starting to fuel or not.  At this point in time are the underground tanks at Pilot designed so they can switch and have his pump draw from a different underground diesel tank?  I don't know how they are plumbed but I do know they have more than one tank.  Was there actually a DEF delivery tanker there who had just started to dump his DEF load into the wrong underground tank that only had a little diesel left in it, but they caught it right when my buddy finished pumping?  I don't know, just like I don't know if they closed that pump or some others while he was having the issue and kept them closed.  

I do know that many times I have pulled into a Pilot station and a island has been closed.  I don't know if the pump has malfunctioned or a underground tank is almost empty but for whatever reason I have seen islands closed off and it was not always for cleaning.

My buddy put a certain amount of diesel in his truck tank and his aux tank.  Between the two tanks he split the 48 gallons.  I have no idea if he put 25 gallons in his truck tank and the other 23 gallons in his aux tank.  I don't think he put more than that and probably much less in his truck tank because it isn't very large.  But let's say he did put 25 gallons of contaminated fuel in a 32 gallon tank.  Now his truck tank has 80% contaminated fuel in it.  I have no idea how big his aux tank is.  Big rigs hold a ton more fuel and I promise you they will not run their tanks down to empty prior to filling up.  Did the next big rig that pumped fuel from that island only get 120 gallons for his 300 gallons capacity tank(s)?  That big rig would only have about 40% contaminated fuel, right?  So if the big rig that took on the same contaminated fuel had half the contamination maybe his engine wouldn't run as bad and he would just go about his merry way down the road.

You and I can guess what happen all day long and we may never know 100% for sure.  I suspect Progressive will check into this further because they will be paying out a pretty good claim by now.  Will a huge insurance carrier like Progressive spend any money in litigation over a $10,000 to $12,000 claim?  I'm thinking they probably won't.  Certainly "the chain of evidence", and who touched what, and "can we get the Dodge dealer's diesel mechanic to testify" will never be a part of the continuing saga here.

My friend and his DW are finally back on the road headed our way.  We are all looking forward to a fun, warm, and healthy winter in SW Florida doing what we do.  There are a lot of RVers that use diesel in their rigs that may be more careful and thoughtful about fueling issues now.  I am a happy camper, life if good!