Buying Advice

[bento]

This is my first post here. My partner and I are planning to hit the road next spring, living out of an RV for anywhere from 6 months to a few years. I'm excited to have found a community of people with similar lifestyles and am looking forward to picking your brains. Right now, we're in the early planning phases of our adventure and are looking for advice on what type of setup to get. We currently have a FWC Fleet Shell in the back of my Ford Ranger. This is great for short trips, but would be pretty cramped for two adults and a 50lb dog after a few months.

Our #1 requirement is that it needs to be able to get places. We're avid rock climbers, which sometimes means going down rough roads. We're not doing crazy 4x4 trails, but we encounter moderate rutting and washboarding as well as tight turns. We aren't doing anything you couldn't do if driving carefully in a Honda Civic though.

We also are camping year round. We're generally climbing in the deserts of Utah and Nevada during the winter, but it still gets pretty cold at night. It seems like the furnace in a lot of RVs can keep you comfortable in these conditions, but we're worried about freezing pipes.

So, what are our options? So far, we've considered class B van conversions, travel trailers, as well as larger truck campers.

A lot of our climber fiends have converted Sprinter vans. They're nice and often have 4x4, so they can get around. They are pretty cramped though and don't have much storage. You also have to pack up camp every day when you head out to climb. This seems like a big downside. These also seem way overpriced. You can easily drop $150K into a Sprinter. For that price you can get an awful nice trailer or slide in camper. Not being able to swap out the vehicle also means that each mile you drive is shortening the life of your vehicle and your RV. When the vehicle breaks down, you're also paying a premium for service.

We went to a few RV dealers this weekend to look at some travel trailers. There are super off-road capable trailers out there, but we aren't interested in a pop up, having the kitchen be outside, or something I can't stand up in (I'm 6'4"). This left us looking at things like the RPod, the Little Guy Max, the Airstream Nest, the Rockwood Geo Pro, and the NoBo. The ~16' trailers seem big enough for us, but none of them have decent clearance. Some 20' trailers have more clearance, but I'm not sure how much this helps with that long of a trailer. There also don't seem to be four season trailers in either size range. It seems like no one is making the trailer we want, which is pretty disappointing.

This got us thinking about a bigger truck camper. We aren't attached to my Ranger at all, so we could get a much bigger truck. It looks like some brands are sturdy enough to use off the truck. This would be really nice for setting up camp for a couple of weeks while having a vehicle to get around in. Some brands also seem to offer true four season options. With slide outs, these campers can be quite spacious. Finally, since you're on a truck, you are able to go down rough roads without issue. This seems to tick all our boxes, but we might be missing something.

So, that's our research journey so far. I'm curious what advice folks have? Are there other trailer models we should be looking at? Are we underestimating the off-roadability of the models we're already looking at? Is a truck camper really the way to go for us? Are there other considerations we are totally missing? Thanks in advance to anyone who made it through my excessively long post and has energy left to respond.
 

[SWharton]

Have you thought about a small 5th wheel or a Class C?  Should have no height problems in any of those.

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Are you willing to think outside the box?  How handy are you with tools?

There is a very active group of people who convert Cargo Trailers into campers.  Some are very minimalistic, some can be quite elaborate.

You can see a ton of examples on this site:

Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers - Cargo Trailers

[bento]

59 minutes ago, SWharton said:

Have you thought about a small 5th wheel or a Class C?  Should have no height problems in any of those.

We haven't given either of those much thought. I see that Scamp makes a 19' 5th wheel. Are there others we should look at? Do 5th wheels generally have better clearance than pull behind trailers? A class C would have some of the drawbacks of a class B: your vehicle is tied to your RV, meaning having to break down camp and wearing out your RV at the same rate as your vehicle.

 

14 minutes ago, Optimistic Paranoid said:

There is a very active group of people who convert Cargo Trailers into campers

We hadn't given this much thought either. I'm fairly handy, but I don't know that I would have enough free time to work on this before our intended departure.

[sandsys]

The Arctic Fox line of campers are built for the weather: http://northwoodmfg.com

Sportsmobile has used van campers that might interest you:http://northwoodmfg.com

Linda Sand

[SnowGypsy]

I would not consider a Scamp or Casita even the other molded fiberglass travel trailers with the exception of BigFoot.  Freezing weather is tough, and "4 season" can be misleading as "4 seasons where?".  

If you aren't familiar with this free online magazine, it is good resource for info on Truck Campers:  https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/  Most of the truck campers are heavy enough that the cost of the truck to hold them is just sky high.   With a truck camper, would getting your dog inside be an issue?  

The R-Pod and those similar will shake apart under rough conditions.  Older R-Pods were better than the newer ones, but that applies to many of the RVs on the market.  I, myself, would avoid Forest River products, been there and done that, and also a forum member there still.

If you aren't aware of this forum, they might have some better ideas as what direction to take:

https://expeditionportal.com/forum/

Before purchasing a unit, try to join the owner's forum for that particular unit.  There is some real junk out there.  A problem here or there is OK, but some of the manufacturers don't seem to have a clue what they are doing or try to cut corners to be competitive and the quality suffers.

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, bento said:

We're not doing crazy 4x4 trails, but we encounter moderate rutting and washboarding as well as tight turns. We aren't doing anything you couldn't do if driving carefully in a Honda Civic though.

 

2 hours ago, bento said:

Do 5th wheels generally have better clearance than pull behind trailers?

Welcome to the Escapee forums! Happy to have you join us.

I am really confused by your two posts. Most of the travel trailers out there should be able to be towed anywhere you can drive with a Civic. I'm not sure where you have in mind to go but we have spent a great deal of time in national forest and BLM campgrounds over the years and we never had more than the typical clearance for our RVs. Gravel roads can be rough but most are not rutted up if they are maintained at all. 

Commenting on the RVs that you mention, we considered an R-pod and I can't imagine anyone tall being happy in one for very long. And the "wet bath" found in one of them should be quite an experience since it is always out under the curved section of the roof. I suggest that before you buy any RV you need to pantomime doing all of the daily activities as you do at home. And it would be wise to have your partner doing the same and at the same time, just as you do at home. Living for months or years in an RV is a very different thing from the short weekend and vacation trips. Comfort can become a serious issue over time. Remember that when you live in your RV you will have all of the experiences that you would in a house, like being sick, nasty weather, and all of the other things that life brings. Make very sure that there is room to take along everything that you will want and a place to do the things that each of you do to keep busy when weather is bad for several days in a row.

I think that you are worrying too much about ground clearance and not nearly enough about living space, comfort, and storage.

[kb0zke]

Welcome, bento. You are in for some interesting experiences. Unfortunately, you may not have left yourself enough time to learn all that you need to know before you start spending money. Expect to pay dearly for your mistakes.

That said, you can help yourself a great deal by getting used to the idea of something towing something else. A motor home (not very fuel-efficient and certainly not an off-road vehicle) can tow a Jeep (can be more fuel-efficient and can be very off-road capable). A 4x4 pickup can tow a trailer, either a travel trailer or a fifth wheel, and still have reasonable off-road capability. Unless you really need to take your recreational vehicle out in the boonies, you can set up camp in a place that is easier for the RV and then drive to the more rugged area.

There are some trailers that are designed to go off-road, but they aren't all that large, as you have discovered. Freezing pipes is a real concern. Ask about how the pipes and water tanks are kept warm. Most 5'ers and MHs will have provision for that, and some of the larger, heavier TTs have heat there, too.

Another thought is that you go with either a MH or TT and have a pickup with a cap (similar to what you already have) for those times when your climbing keeps you out overnight. Keep in mind that not every truck can tow every trailer - even if the sales person says it can. Do your research, including reading posts here. As brands are suggested to you, join those owners forums and ask questions. That will help you eliminate some makes/models and may add others.

Since you have only a few months to learn a lot, I'd suggest that you plan on spending 2-3 hours per night learning all you can. Then go out on the weekends and visit every dealer and show you can. Look at everything on the lot, no matter the type, condition, or price. You are looking for quality (or lack thereof) and floor plans. If you are going to live in your rig full-time, even for a few months straight, you will have times when the weather will keep you inside for days at a time. You will need to have enough space that each of you can do something without getting in the other one's way. Can you watch television without twisting your neck? Is there room in the bathroom to take a shower without punching a hole somewhere? The chief cook ought to be happy with the galley, and the chief dishwasher ought to be happy with the sink. Some builders built the counters a bit on the low side for taller people. If you are looking at something with slides, can you use the bathroom with the slides in?

Ask LOTS of questions everywhere you go, both in person and electronically. Each answer is likely to raise 5-10 more questions, at least at first. As you get answers to your questions BOTH of you ought to talk about how that affects your plans.

[MidMOTraveler]

I have a friends son that’s a climber. He travels in a 24’ Class C and tows a Jeep Wrangler with a hard top. I ask why a hard top Jeep his reply gears expensive, if they have  to break in my insurance will pay for it. Popping snaps on a rag top? 

[OregonJim]

3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

I am really confused by your two posts.

I think that you are worrying too much about ground clearance and not nearly enough about living space, comfort, and storage.

I *think* he was talking about interior ceiling height, not ground clearance, as he's a tall guy.  He mentioned "clearance" in the context of not being able to stand up straight in his first post.  I could be wrong, of course.

 

That said, 5th wheels generally have very generous headroom - I've seen some over 8'.

[bento]

Thanks for the replies everyone. This is a lot of good food for thought.

 

6 hours ago, Kirk W said:

I am really confused by your two posts. Most of the travel trailers out there should be able to be towed anywhere you can drive with a Civic.

That's good to hear. I'm just remembering times that I've bottomed out utility trailers when leaving gas stations. The approach and departure angles on a civic will be far better than on a trailer of any length and I was thinking that might be a real concern on mediocre roads.

[Kirk W]

8 hours ago, bento said:

The approach and departure angles on a civic will be far better than on a trailer of any length 

 

I see now what you are thinking and it could be an issue but that is true for any type of RV and even sometimes for a truck.  I thought that you were concerned about ground clearance but approach/departure angles could occasionally be a bit of a problem as they are with any type of trailer. Even in paved areas that can cause issues so you must sometimes cross dips at an angle to avoid dragging. I also have skid wheels on the back of our travel trailer to help in dealing with that issue. I think that you will find that issue more common in gas stations and similar places than you do in accessing campgrounds. There could be creek crossings that would be a problem but most campgrounds are located to provide access that isn't a serious problem. Keep in mind that if there were a problem getting into a campground for RVs it would be a problem for everyone. I have seen "tent only" campgrounds with that type problem but very seldom one that allows RVs. 

[2gypsies]

We could easily do gravel roads on BLM and national forest lands with our 40' motorhome towing the Jeep. Boondocking was always our first choice.  It had plenty of clearance if we didn't go over boulders or in deep ruts.  We drove slow and if the road became too difficult we parked for our stay and toured via the Jeep.  We didn't feel we had to go directly to our destination of 20 miles in when 5 miles would do. A few times we weren't sure of what lied ahead so we just disconnect the Jeep and scouted ahead before driving the motorhome any farther.  I really think you'd enjoy towing a Jeep with either a Class C or A.

I'm not familiar with it but I think some trailer owners flip the axel to have higher clearance.

You won't be happy in a R-pod or Casita-type - much too small for your height and longer term trips.  Fine for a weekend.

[Barbaraok]

21 hours ago, bento said:

Thanks for the replies everyone. This is a lot of good food for thought.

 

That's good to hear. I'm just remembering times that I've bottomed out utility trailers when leaving gas stations. The approach and departure angles on a civic will be far better than on a trailer of any length and I was thinking that might be a real concern on mediocre roads.

Have you compared the tire size of utility trailers with Class Cs or Class As?  And what gas station do you frequent that makes it difficult for cars to enter?    You need to think about having your Home at a park and drive up to the climbing areas for the day.   We geocache and have thoroughly enjoyed being out in the desert with a little car taking us close to the caches, then a hike the rest of the way.  After a day of ‘finds’ we have a cozy home to return to with conveniences we enjoy.

 

[Ray,IN]

IMO a a 5th wheel trailer is not a good choice for rough, rutted, tight turns, etc. The main issue is truck bed-rail clearance both front to back, and side to side. There are travel trailers designed and made with high road clearance, something about 20'  would fit your requirements and also leave the 4x4 pickups truck bed open for a  quality camper shell to protect and secure your  climbing gear.

[Lance A Lott]

As you say two of you will be living in it for 6 months to possibly years I think your first consideration is the size of the camper. My wife and I are very good at spending all our time together, but she would kill me in a pickup camper. We have friends with what has to be about as big a one as you can get. It is very nice and a week or two would be ok. All the stuff you pack away when you are getting ready for a trip is not going to be put away every time you use it. I have to move the trash can everymtimemI get out of the dinette, things like that. If I was doing what you are thinking of I would use a TT and a 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup. And the TT would be big enough for comfort, look for one with good insulation and ground clearance large tanks and then leave it parked and drive to the climbing spot.

[bento]

Thanks for the replies folks. We're now thinking that a small bumper pull will be our best bet. We're looking at the Lance 1475 and the ORV 18RBS tomorrow. My girlfriend is convinced that we need an Oliver trailer, but I'm doubtful that they're worth the price tag.

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, bento said:

We're looking at the Lance 1475 and the ORV 18RBS tomorrow.

As is my usual method I looked first at the floor plan. I much prefer the Lance for two reasons. 1. the seats face the TV which is important to Dave and me. 2. There are counter tops on each side of the sink which greatly improves the ability to wash dishes. However, the ORV can have counter on each side of the sink if you leave the cover on the right hand sink.

The ORV has much greater capacities but that makes me wonder if it has less sturdy construction. Hopefully you can find that out as you tour them tomorrow.

Linda Sand

 

[Smitty77_7]

We have friends that are desert rats. They have two modes of toys when they go camping. 1) Is they two a trailer with their sand toys, motorcycles, and quads on it; 2) When Rock Crawling, they tow their Jeep Wrangler. 

They upgraded to this (With the 4X4 option):  

http://www.dynamaxcorp.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=329&Image=12937

So far, they're very pleased with the performance and comfort and storage of this unit. 

The gents brother goes out with him, and he bought a Big Foot, on I believe it's the F450 chassis (For sure at least the F350.). And then he had a Electric Controlled Locking Differential in the rear end. And has had this combo off in many places. He likes to boon dock in the foot hills around Yuma, and then spend sometime over in the White Mountain areas of AZ too. He tows a Jeep Wrangler. 

So you might look into a good quality, well insulated older Class C. Budget for a Electric Controlled Locking Differential. Pick up a Jeep Wrangler, or other vehicle.

I've been amazed at the places we've had (And probably should not have:)!) our AWD Honda CRV (07 Gen 3 model, I added high profile tires to increase road clearance by 1". The Gen 2 CRV (06 was the last year), had higher ground clearance then the Gen 3.) And I know that many swear by the various Suzuki 4X4's as toads too.

Best of luck to you on your quest, go have some fun:)!

Smitty