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Should I change domicile from OR?


OregonJim

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4 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

So are you telling me that since I have Florida tags, and I am a Florida resident, that if I decide next year to spend 10 months in Arizona I could be cited by Arizona officials for not changing my registration over?  I have a hard time believing that.

If I am getting my mail in Florida and a registered voter in Florida, does Arizona have some kind of secret rule that I can't be in their state over a certain number of months?

In Illinois if you move there you have a very short window to change over your driver's license and registration.  However, you certainly can come through in an RV and stay as long as you want.  Now if you rent or buy a residence and get a job then you will probably have an issue convincing anyone you haven't moved there.

And there you have it.  When you RENT a site at an RV park, that will trigger the residency after 7 months.   You don't have to get a job to qualify - your presence after 7 months is enough to qualify as a resident subject to state income tax.   And most states are tax hunger, so it is no surprise that they will look to make sure they are getting all of the taxes that is do to them.   Even states without state income tax will want you to register your vehicles, etc. so they can get registration fees, etc., into their coffers if you are there for expended periods of time using their services (roads, etc.).  BTW- you might want to check out the Illinois residency requirements again.  Staying a year in your RV in Illinois will get you classified as a resident if someone pushes the matter.

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
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A little clarification.  Since you stay 10 months in Arizona If you move around in Arizona for 10 months you're a traveler.  If you stay 10 months in one spot you're a resident.  Also, someone has to turn you in to the authorities.

Full-timed for 16 Years
Traveled 8 yr in a 2004 Newmar Dutch Star 40' Motorhome
and 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

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30 minutes ago, 2gypsies said:

A little clarification.  Since you stay 10 months in Arizona If you move around in Arizona for 10 months you're a traveler.  If you stay 10 months in one spot you're a resident. 

That doesn't agree with Kirk's direct quote from Arizona's web page:

New to Arizona?

State law requires that you register your vehicle with the Arizona Motor Vehicle Division (MVD) immediately after establishing residency.

Residency in AZ is more than just having an Arizona address. The state considers you a resident if any one of the following situations applies to you:

  • You remain in the state for 7 months or more in one calendar year.

 

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States like Arizona may challenge more people who decide to stay for 7 months or more.  They are a state that charges unbelievable amounts of money for their annual registration fees.  But I think you have to apply common sense to the situation.  If you are an Oregon resident and decide to winter for 6 months in Arizona, then travel an additional 2 months around Arizona, who is exactly going to keep track of all that and come knocking on your door and insist you become an Arizona resident?

Joe & Cindy

Newmar 4369 Ventana

Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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7 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

States like Arizona may challenge more people who decide to stay for 7 months or more.  They are a state that charges unbelievable amounts of money for their annual registration fees.  But I think you have to apply common sense to the situation.  If you are an Oregon resident and decide to winter for 6 months in Arizona, then travel an additional 2 months around Arizona, who is exactly going to keep track of all that and come knocking on your door and insist you become an Arizona resident?

Ethics are what you do when no one is looking. Why would anyone risk this?

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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15 hours ago, sandsys said:

Ethics are what you do when no one is looking. Why would anyone risk this?

Linda

I don't think "ethics" has anything to do with this situation.  This is America and we can travel and move around from state to state as we see fit.  You have to look at the color of the law, in other words, why did a state enact that law, what where their intentions?  I can guarantee you that the law makers in Arizona don't care if visitors travel around and spend money in their state all year long.  They pass such laws in order to keep folks from permanently moving there but claiming domicile in another state to avoid paying certain taxes and registration fees.  

Joe & Cindy

Newmar 4369 Ventana

Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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2 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

You have to look at the color of the law, in other words, why did a state enact that law, what where their intentions?

Interesting idea. Would that apply to all laws propagated by any level of government? 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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8 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

They pass such laws in order to keep folks from permanently moving there but claiming domicile in another state to avoid paying certain taxes and registration fees.  

Until they change the wording of the law to reflect this "thinking" I wouldn't risk it myself. Nor would I advise anyone else to decide how they think the law should be interpreted. That's for the courts to decide and I would rather not be a party to that court case.

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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These laws are interesting in that sometimes state laws seem to be in conflict.  Recently the Attorney General of Colorado stated that intent is a major determining factor.  Accordingly the Attorney General said that it doesn't matter how much time is spent in Colorado.  If the intent is to return as a resident then that is the determining factor.  This started as a voting dispute.  A local official determined that since people spent the majority of their time in a year away they were not supposed to vote there.  He was overturned by the Attorney General because of intent.  Even though the local official had evidence, such as utility bills that the homes were unoccupied for more than half of the year these people were eligible to vote there.  In small towns even a handful of votes can make a big difference. 

Randy

2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift

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8 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:
10 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

You have to look at the color of the law, in other words, why did a state enact that law, what where their intentions?

Interesting idea. Would that apply to all laws propagated by any level of government? 

Yes.  It's called "legislative intent" (not "color of the law," which doesn't mean anything, and "color of law" is something else entirely).  Legislative intent is an aid in interpreting statutes, and can be found in things like bill analyses, or in recordings or minutes of debates/discussions among lawmakers when they were considering the legislation that enacts the law that is being interpreted.  It's most commonly used when a statute is ambiguous.

As sandsys noted, however, it's not up to citizens to decide how a law should be interpreted; it's the courts or government agencies that do that.  (Although note that a court decision on a statute prevails even if the statute itself isn't, or hasn't yet been, reworded.)

But any legislative intent has to be based on facts.  Something like this won't work:

Quote

I can guarantee you that the law makers in Arizona don't care if visitors travel around and spend money in their state all year long.  They pass such laws in order to keep folks from permanently moving there but claiming domicile in another state to avoid paying certain taxes and registration fees.

That may make sense and it may even seem obvious, but to have it represent legislative intent, there would have to be actual statements by lawmakers that support it.

 

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23 minutes ago, Blues said:

That may make sense and it may even seem obvious, but to have it represent legislative intent, there would have to be actual statements by lawmakers that support it.

I think that one would be hard pressed to use that logic to be ruled "not guilty" if cited for registration issues. I suspect that FL-JOE is probably right that the risk of such a citation would be very low if you sit first and then travel. On the other hand, if some enthusiastic enforcement officer were to cite you when you have been sitting for only 5 months but already spent two months in the state moving about, it seems to me that you would probably be ruled guilty and have to pay the fine and possibly do the registration. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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12 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

Interesting idea. Would that apply to all laws propagated by any level of government? 

And now, we're right back to ethics. 

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

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4 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Usually people are reported by someone living close by who has some type of grievance, real or imaginary, towards the person.  

This has been an interesting discussion.  The bottom line is that each state has its own unique residency laws.  I think I will compile a "cheat sheet" for all 50 states so that I can see at a glance what we are required to do when crossing a state line.  We don't plan to stay in any one spot for more than a month or two, and I can't imagine staying in one state for six months or more, even if we're moving around.  We also plan on keeping a detailed travel log with receipts, so there should be no question of where we've been or for how long.  The way I look at it, by going full-time, we're just trading one set of inconveniences for another.  Not a bad thing, just different.

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6 hours ago, OregonJim said:

We also plan on keeping a detailed Thotravel log with receipts, so there should be no question of where we've been or for how long. 

Problems of that nature are really pretty rare. I can only think of one couple that I have known who had such an issue and they were snowbirds who sat in one spot all winter, Even that case was probably 10 years ago so it may be that there is less of that sort of thing happening nowadays. Years ago there were posts on these forums from time to time about people having issues of that type in various states but I think that most of those were from people who were doing paid, seasonal work or work-camping. Even then there were only a handful of states that were ever mentioned. If you plan to keep a log it won't hurt, but don't waste a lot of time and effort doing so for this reason as you are very unlikely to ever use it. What numerous states have become aggressive about are the residents that live and work in their state but buy an expensive RV and try to get away with registering it in another state to avoid their state's taxes. We have sat in one place as RV volunteers for as long as 4 months many times in many different states and we continue to do that but have never had anyone even ask us about our vehicle registrations. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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We've stayed in Colorado for 7 months - moving around or sitting for a month or two.  If you move around who is going to report you?  They don't know where you came from the previous move.  I would never try to sit in one place that amount of time.

Full-timed for 16 Years
Traveled 8 yr in a 2004 Newmar Dutch Star 40' Motorhome
and 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

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I think the bottom line here is pretty simple.  If you want to visit a state and end up staying 7 or 8 months, and you are not trying to cheat anyone out of taxes or anything else, then just do it.   We have really enjoyed our time in Tennessee this spring and fall.  There could be a time when we end up spending more than 6 months here.  I'm still a Florida resident but a full time traveler and I'm certainly not going to worry that "someone" is somehow keeping track of how long I stay here and report me.  IMHO you have a better chance of winning the lottery on a weekly basis.

Joe & Cindy

Newmar 4369 Ventana

Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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On 10/9/2018 at 4:24 PM, Kirk Wood said:

I think that one would be hard pressed to use that logic to be ruled "not guilty" if cited for registration issues.

Not that logic alone (as I said), but if it's supported by legislative history, then a court could use it if it is interpreting the statute. 

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  • 1 year later...

What I'm curious about is how would this issue be addressed by someone staying in an LTVA for the full seven months allowed by the BLM permit? This would appear to be an entrapment issue afaik, and it would seem to be a "test case" scenario at the very least. While I'm not an attorney, I have made several court appearances as an expert witness, and can testify to the fact that there have to be extenuating circumstances that warrant an investigation by whatever authority in question wants to resolve. Guess the easy way would be to cut the LTVA permit shorter than seven months to avoid this debacle in the first place. Safe, and happy travels!

Cheers!

Michel

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