Should I change domicile from OR?

[OregonJim]

Hi all,

  I've noticed that most full-timers seem to end up changing their domicile state to SD, FL, or TX.  

 

   I've been an Oregon resident for the last 30 years, and my wife and I plan to start full-timing next year.  I've not yet found a compelling reason to change domicile, but I may have missed something.

 

  Our state has no sales tax, but it does have an income tax.  However, since we are both early retired & disabled, that is not an issue.  Vehicle registrations and licenses are reasonable.  We vote by mail.  We can use our son's address (adjacent town) for mail forwarding after we sell the house, and there are a couple of good forwarding services we can switch to if he ever moves out of state.  We both have Medicare with a supplement plan.  We've discussed our exit strategy, but the only unknown is where we will end up.  It may or may not be Oregon (more likely not).  The only disadvantage that I can see is having to come all the way to the West Coast for doctor visits.  We'd like to move our doctors to a more centrally located state.

 

  Is it possible to be domiciled in one state with primary medical care in another?  Am I overlooking something important?  I want to make sure we do everything 'by the book' from a legal standpoint.  At the same time, I'm finding the laws a bit hazy when it comes to full-timers.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!

 

-Jim

 

[Zulu]

41 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

Is it possible to be domiciled in one state with primary medical care in another? 

What type of health insurance do you have? Medicare? ACA? Other?

[OregonJim]

Just now, Zulu said:

What type of health insurance do you have? Medicare? ACA? Other?

As I stated above, we both have Medicare.

 

-Jim

[Kirk W]

38 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

Our state has no sales tax, but it does have an income tax.  However, since we are both early retired & disabled, that is not an issue. 

The main reasons for TX, FL, and SD is the fact that none of them have an income tax and all accept a mail service as legal address and have no require time for you to be physically in the state. The key reason for not moving to Oregon is that unless things have changed you must be physically in the state for at least 6 continuous months to be allowed to be a full-time traveler and use a mail service address and of course, state income tax. For you, there would be little benefit to changing to one of those three. 

43 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

  Is it possible to be domiciled in one state with primary medical care in another? 

It is possible if your health care supplement has no issues with it, and that depends on what you have. Where the rub could come in doing that would be in the rare chance that your domicile should ever be challenged, the location of your primary doctors could be used to dispute it but that isn't likely to happen. It isn't without risk but the risk is fairly low. It can be important to have an ongoing relationship with doctors somewhere so I'd want them in a location where you expect to be once or twice each year.

48 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

I'm finding the laws a bit hazy when it comes to full-timers. 

That is the crux of the problem. There are so few of us that very few if any rules and laws have ever been made to address our specific issues. In many cases, we don't fit into any of the scenarios that the laws address. 

[sandsys]

2 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

The key reason for not moving to Oregon is that unless things have changed you must be physically in the state for at least 6 continuous months to be allowed to be a full-time traveler and use a mail service address

Since they have been Oregon residents for many years I THINK they already qualify for the full-time traveler category. I don't think it's 6 months every year but I have been known to be wrong. Occasionally.

Linda

[Kirk W]

12 minutes ago, sandsys said:

Since they have been Oregon residents for many years I THINK they already qualify for the full-time traveler category.

Go back and read all of what I wrote. I said that they have no real reason to change.  😀

[OregonJim]

31 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

The key reason for not moving to Oregon is that unless things have changed you must be physically in the state for at least 6 continuous months to be allowed to be a full-time traveler and use a mail service address and of course, state income tax. For you, there would be little benefit to changing to one of those three. 

It is possible if your health care supplement has no issues with it, and that depends on what you have. Where the rub could come in doing that would be in the rare chance that your domicile should ever be challenged, the location of your primary doctors could be used to dispute it but that isn't likely to happen. It isn't without risk but the risk is fairly low.

Ok, thanks.  That's pretty much what I thought, and I'm glad someone else concurs.  I'll need to check with our supplement provider to make sure it will work if we change doctors to another state (probably TX).

As far as being challenged (and I realize it's rare, but messy), I don't think I fully understand what that entails.  Who is usually the challenger?  The IRS? The State?  What are they trying to gain by the challenge?  Income tax?  I guess once your house is on wheels, you fall into a nebulous legal status, no matter where you come from or where you are going...

 

-Jim

[Kirk W]

4 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

Who is usually the challenger?  The IRS? The State?  What are they trying to gain by the challenge?  Income tax? 

By far the most common challenge is one from some taxing authority in the state you are leaving. But it can also come from a third state if you accept employment there and do not move your domicile to that location, especially things like vehicle registrations. I did a lot of research on this subject quite a few years ago and did find two cases where a new will was written in the state of claimed domicile but the decedent had kept too much tie to the original state of domicile and his heirs there overturned a new will leaving things to a new wife. Another will was overturned because it was from the old state and the new state was ruled to be proper. I think that I found one relating to insurance also, but it has been quite a few years and I didn't keep my research materials when I changed computers since then. I think your case would be extremely unlikely to cause any problem because you are staying in the state that you once physically resided in. The key to domicile is that you intend to return to that state when you stop traveling, which is a very difficult thing to prove. 

[OregonJim]

3 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

By far the most common challenge is one from some taxing authority in the state you are leaving. But it can also come from a third state if you accept employment there and do not move your domicile to that location, especially things like vehicle registrations. I did a lot of research on this subject quite a few years ago and did find two cases where a new will was written in the state of claimed domicile but the decedent had kept too much tie to the original state of domicile and his heirs there overturned a new will leaving things to a new wife. Another will was overturned because it was from the old state and the new state was ruled to be proper. I think that I found one relating to insurance also, but it has been quite a few years and I didn't keep my research materials when I changed computers since then. I think your case would be extremely unlikely to cause any problem because you are staying in the state that you once physically resided in. The key to domicile is that you intend to return to that state when you stop traveling, which is a very difficult thing to prove. 

Thanks again for the info.  It sounds like we will have less risk than most, since we are not changing domicile.  However, whether or not we intend to return when we stop travelling is an unanswerable question.  Half the reason for travelling in the first place is to see if there is some place we will fall in love with and want to settle down in for the final stretch.  Another possibility is that we may never come off the road.  Our current intent is to stay in any single place for no more than a month or two.  Employment, if any, would be volunteer work in exchange for a free site - but I don't see that happening often.  We're both excited to get on the road,  but we've still got a good 6 to 9 months of prep work to do.  This is part of it.

 

-Jim 

[Kirk W]

10 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

It sounds like we will have less risk than most, since we are not changing domicile.  However, whether or not we intend to return when we stop travelling is an unanswerable question. 

I would agree with your assessment as courts have ruled in the past that your domicile remains in the place that you physically lived until you take actions to create a new one. For us it was easy as we were living in TX when we retired and we moved to Livingston without ever going there but just did a series of address change notifications. I have never heard of any challenge of domicile that was internal to a single state. 

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

Go back and read all of what I wrote. I said that they have no real reason to change.  😀

I was affirming and, I thought, enhancing what you said, not criticizing you. I'm sorry you took it that way.

Linda

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, sandsys said:

'm sorry you took it that way.

No problem..   Just one of the weaknesses of a forum. It happens but no harm done.  😉

[Earl1]

We were OR residents when we full timed and figured out after some trial and error that we benefited staying OR residents. I don't remember any restrictions about having to return for 6 months. We sure didn't and never had a problem. We even had a major RV accident, just involving my stupidity and no other vehicles, and being on the road without ever returning to OR was not a problem. I would keep my residency there if I were you. 

[hdrider]

 We have been on the road 6 years and have not felt the need to change from our Oregon residency. In fact my health insurance is cheaper as a Oregon resident than if I were change to SD, not to sure about other state. License for our motorhome is certainly cheaper. We have bought a new motorhome and a new toad since being on the road and at this moment have a custom New Horizon 5th wheel being built and because of no sales tax I can honestly say we have saved thousands of dollars by remaining Oregon residence. 

 But that just us, everyone's situations play out differently. 

[OregonJim]

14 hours ago, Earl1 said:

We were OR residents when we full timed and figured out after some trial and error that we benefited staying OR residents. I don't remember any restrictions about having to return for 6 months. We sure didn't and never had a problem. We even had a major RV accident, just involving my stupidity and no other vehicles, and being on the road without ever returning to OR was not a problem. I would keep my residency there if I were you. 

Thanks for that.  I hope everything worked out well for you after the accident.

 

5 hours ago, hdrider said:

 We have been on the road 6 years and have not felt the need to change from our Oregon residency. In fact my health insurance is cheaper as a Oregon resident than if I were change to SD, not to sure about other state. License for our motorhome is certainly cheaper. We have bought a new motorhome and a new toad since being on the road and at this moment have a custom New Horizon 5th wheel being built and because of no sales tax I can honestly say we have saved thousands of dollars by remaining Oregon residence. 

 But that just us, everyone's situations play out differently. 

Thank you as well.  That answers a couple more questions for me.

 

I feel much better now.  After several years of reading forums, magazines, visiting club sites, etc., I got the distinct impression that the vast majority of full-timers were changing domicile to one of the big three.  It never occurred to me that there may be a silent majority that simply don't change domicile at all.

 

Maybe it's like RV reviews - for every complaint you see, there are hundreds of others who never post because they never had a problem.

-Jim

 

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, OregonJim said:

After several years of reading forums, magazines, visiting club sites, etc., I got the distinct impression that the vast majority of full-timers were changing domicile to one of the big three. 

There are also several other states that some choose to go to. OR is one that is sometimes chosen but the time physically in the state makes it more difficult than the "big three" or a few other states. At one time NV was also pretty popular but not so much today. The reason that so many people choose to "move" to one of the more fulltime friendly states is that very few states will allow you to use a mail service for an address, so anyone who doesn't have a friend or relative they can use as an address for vehicle registrations and driver's licensing must move somewhere other than where they once owned a home. Another contributing factor is that none of the "big three" have any state income tax and none of them require you to live in the state for a period, although SD does require proof that you spent at least 1 night there. It probably isn't the majority of fulltime RV folks who domicile in one of the three most popular states but I'd guess it is a majority of those who chose not to keep the same domicile as they had before going on the road. Both FL & TX have had a huge influx of retired RV people who stay in the state once they discontinue full-time travels, after making it domicile in order to go fulltime. 

[Blues]

On 9/28/2018 at 2:38 PM, Zulu said:

What type of health insurance do you have? Medicare? ACA? Other?

Zulu, since you're participating in this thread, what is your opinion on whether OregonJim can keep his Oregon domicile?  He doesn't currently intend to return there when he quits fulltiming.

He said, "We've discussed our exit strategy, but the only unknown is where we will end up.  It may or may not be Oregon (more likely not)."  And:  "However, whether or not we intend to return when we stop travelling is an unanswerable question.  Half the reason for travelling in the first place is to see if there is some place we will fall in love with and want to settle down in for the final stretch.  Another possibility is that we may never come off the road.  Our current intent is to stay in any single place for no more than a month or two."

[Smitty77_7]

From my encounters with others. Most problems occur when a long term resident is leaving a state, as they sure do like the state income taxes:)! In this case you're selling a home, and providing a legal address for I assume your DL's as well as your mail, with our son's home. And though while retired probably not too much of a hit, assume you will continue filing Oregon Income Taxes(?). If that is all so, I see very little concern. 

On Doctors and healthcare in general. Being on Medicare does also provide you more flexibility then say someone who needs an ACA compliant, and since traveling, PPO type health care. So that is another plus. Have no idea of your two's medical needs, but I do know several people who travel full-time, and only return for major check up's every other year. Nothing stops you from having your current Doctor's order a yearly lab test for you, and going in somewhere along the road to have the samples drawn and lab results then shared with your current Doctor's. Just another angle, that depending upon a person's health care needs - may work for them. 

Also on the exit strategy. Well I do believe it is still legal in America for a person to decide to change where they want to live. So while maybe a grey area, if every asked while traveling where you plan to come off the road, nothing illegal to say Oregon for as long as you want. (And frankly, I see no reason why anyone would be asking you this question from an Oregon perspective(?). As Kirk noted, if you stay in one location for a long period of time, that state may want to suck you into their Income Taxes revenue (And each state is different.). But it sounds like you plan to travel, and I know of no place that gets concerned with a visitor to their state for say two months at a time. Heck, probably California is the poster child of having non friendly regulations for travelers... And I suspect it is the never to be avoided Borg like DMV of California - that has the most restrictive regulations:)!). 

Make it as easy on your Son as possible by getting all of your billing online. And whenever able to, request all correspondence also to be 'Paper Less'. This will reduce the mail coming in for him to handle. If the does not have a scanner, buy him one, and that way if something does come in - he can scan and email it to you on the road for your review. 

Best to you. Go have some fun,

Smitty

[FL-JOE]

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 3:55 PM, OregonJim said:

Hi all,

  I've noticed that most full-timers seem to end up changing their domicile state to SD, FL, or TX.  

 

   I've been an Oregon resident for the last 30 years, and my wife and I plan to start full-timing next year.  I've not yet found a compelling reason to change domicile, but I may have missed something.

 

  Our state has no sales tax, but it does have an income tax.  However, since we are both early retired & disabled, that is not an issue.  Vehicle registrations and licenses are reasonable.  We vote by mail.  We can use our son's address (adjacent town) for mail forwarding after we sell the house, and there are a couple of good forwarding services we can switch to if he ever moves out of state.  We both have Medicare with a supplement plan.  We've discussed our exit strategy, but the only unknown is where we will end up.  It may or may not be Oregon (more likely not).  The only disadvantage that I can see is having to come all the way to the West Coast for doctor visits.  We'd like to move our doctors to a more centrally located state.

 

  Is it possible to be domiciled in one state with primary medical care in another?  Am I overlooking something important?  I want to make sure we do everything 'by the book' from a legal standpoint.  At the same time, I'm finding the laws a bit hazy when it comes to full-timers.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!

 

-Jim

 

You are doing exactly what we did the first time we went full time, except a different state.  We sold the house, used our oldest son's address in Illinois, and went full time for 2 years.  Kept the same doctors, filed our income tax the same way, voted the same way, and kept all our registrations Illinois.  Easypeasy.  Everyone seems to get hung up on the "6 months living in the state deal" but if you don't own property in another state, or multiple states, or have ownership in a business, or some other tax issue then there really is no 6 month rule.  There is nothing illegal about living in a state but traveling 11 or 12 months out of the year.  

[duraduk]

You say you have medicare.  Is it a supplemental plan or is it an Advantage Plan.  A straight medicare supplemental plan you can see any doc anywhere that accepts medicare.  An Advantage plan is typically  a HMO/PPO type plan that restricts you to a network which is usually based upon the local you reside.  Supplemental plans are more expensive but give a lot more flexibility when traveling.

[SnowGypsy]

The only problem I would see, that we saw neighbors run into, was sitting for some time in one spot past AZ's limit (I think it was 7 months) with OR tags.  AZ wanted the tax money that was generated from registration/tags, or that is what I suspected.  They got a hefty fine.

[Barbaraok]

Hey, if you are in Arizona longer than 7 months (and that is very generous) then you are spending more than 1/2 of the year which indicates it is your residence.   The idea is to leave when the heat arrives!

[cpaulsen]

We domicile in Oregon.....everything here and DMV  classed us as "continuous travelers" since had no home  and are using a mail service here in Oregon. Been 4 years with no problems.....such as doctors/voting and so on.

[FL-JOE]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:28 PM, SnowGypsy said:

The only problem I would see, that we saw neighbors run into, was sitting for some time in one spot past AZ's limit (I think it was 7 months) with OR tags.  AZ wanted the tax money that was generated from registration/tags, or that is what I suspected.  They got a hefty fine.

So are you telling me that since I have Florida tags, and I am a Florida resident, that if I decide next year to spend 10 months in Arizona I could be cited by Arizona officials for not changing my registration over?  I have a hard time believing that.

If I am getting my mail in Florida and a registered voter in Florida, does Arizona have some kind of secret rule that I can't be in their state over a certain number of months?

In Illinois if you move there you have a very short window to change over your driver's license and registration.  However, you certainly can come through in an RV and stay as long as you want.  Now if you rent or buy a residence and get a job then you will probably have an issue convincing anyone you haven't moved there.

[Kirk W]

30 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

If I am getting my mail in Florida and a registered voter in Florida, does Arizona have some kind of secret rule that I can't be in their state over a certain number of months?

Most(if not all) states do have such a rule or law. If they did not we could move there permanently and keep our domicile in a more tax-friendly location to avoid paying, but still use their facilities. 

Quote

New to Arizona?

State law requires that you register your vehicle with the Arizona Motor Vehicle Division (MVD) immediately after establishing residency.

Residency in AZ is more than just having an Arizona address. The state considers you a resident if any one of the following situations applies to you:

• You remain in the state for 7 months or more in one calendar year.