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Setting up CR-V for TOAD


gyadon4

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Question Number 1.

Charging the CR-V battery,  Since the Motorhome charges the house battery is there any reason I could NOT run a ten gage wire from house battery (or motorhome battery) to the seven pole plug and then on to the CR-V battery?

 

Question Number 2.

When towing you have to turn the key on, I understand that.  It says to remove two ACC fuses to keep from running down the battery.  If you set up a charging wire do you still need to remove the fuses?  I have found a wiring harness to install to add switches in the circuit but it is $90.  I think i can fabricate a wiring harness for far less.

So far I have removed the bumper cover and installed the base plate and break-a-way switch.  I have my tail light harness will install next week.  Have my Brake Buddy ready.  I just have to work out charging issue.

I have even thought that since I don't travel long distance in a day without stopping I could start the CR-V and charge the battery.  You are required to run the car every eight hours of towing anyway.

Thanks for any help or advice. 

 

 

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Don, just the last year or so I set up my Honda CRV AWD to tow four down behind my motorhome and have hauled it several thousand miles with no issues or battery discharge problems whatsoever.

1) I ran a protected 12 VDC charge wire to the RV's rear 7 pole receptacle and from that via the cars 7 pole plug ran a wire to the Honda's battery which keeps it charged and I DO NOT remove any Honda fuses. WORKS PERFECT battery keeps charged !!! I also fabricated my own wiring harness for far less then ninety bucks

2) Since my RV is the old 3 wire system (Left Turn & Stop, Right Turn & Stop, Tail/Marker) while the Honda is the modern 4 wire system (Left Turn, Right Turn, Stop, Tail/Marker) I installed a solid state 3 to 4 black box converter on the Honda so its lights function properly when its being towed.  In addition (to the front base plate and Blue Ox) I installed a 2 inch Reese type rear hitch receiver on the Honda so I can tow my golf cart trailer or plug in my bike carrier.

3) I installed my Brake Buddy in the Honda and connect the break away switch when towing plus use the wireless brake activation indicator in the RV which isn't really so important because I can feel the Honda Brake Buddy activation.

I follow the owners manual instructions for four down towing and just to be on the safe side after maybe 3/4 hours of towing (Rest stop time anyway by then) I start the Honda and let it run a while and cycle through the gears ending up Drive then Neutral as called for in the owners manual.   

 Works fine for me in my Honda CRV AWD and I don't have to mess with pulling and replacing fuses

 

John T

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3 hours ago, gyadon4 said:

Since the Motorhome charges the house battery is there any reason I could NOT run a ten gage wire from house battery (or motorhome battery) to the seven pole plug and then on to the CR-V battery?

No reason at all and many of us have done just that. 

3 hours ago, gyadon4 said:

It says to remove two ACC fuses to keep from running down the battery. 

We towed 2 different model year CR-Vs and never pulled any fuses on either one, but we also rarely towed for longer than 3 or 4 hours. Keep in mind that the 8hours time at which you need to start the CR-V is 8 hours by the clock, whether you are towing or not. We usually unhooked the CR-V and drove it at nearly every stop. If you supply the charge wire that should completely eliminate any need for removing fuses if you remove the key when you stop for the night but do not unhook the CR-V. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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As for running a charge wire to the rear to charge your towed vehicle, I will add one thing.  When I do this, I like to add a relay in the line so the charge wire is only active when the key is on in the tow vehicle.  This way your towed vehicle can't draw down your tow vehicle's battery if you forget to disconnect or turn keys off in the towed for extended periods of time.  I can supply part numbers from Napa for the relay I use if you are interested.

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5 minutes ago, gyadon4 said:

I would be interested in the part number.  However, this is O'Riley country in Branson.  Does this relay just wire in line or where is it connected.

I can get the part number tonight when I get home.  It is installed in line with the charge wire and then you run smaller gauge wire from the relay to an accessory powered circuit so that it turns on and off with the ignition key.  It is pretty simple to wire up.

I also used one in line with my aftermarket heated seats that the installer direct wired to the batteries in my truck.  Now with the relay in place, the seat heater can't draw down my batteries when my DW leaves it on.  ;)

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31 minutes ago, gyadon4 said:

Thanks  I should also ask what size wire did you run? I was thinking #10 however, a 12 might be heavy enough.

Either will work.  10 Gauge will be a little harder to fit into the 7-pin connector, but is doable.  I went 12 gauge with my set up because my HDT has the batteries in the middle of the frame and also has a short bed.  This made for a pretty short wire run so 12 gauge was sufficient.  If I were doing the same thing on a crew cab long bed pickup with the batteries at the front, I would probably go with 10 gauge.

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1 hour ago, Chad Heiser said:

When I do this, I like to add a relay in the line so the charge wire is only active when the key is on in the tow vehicle. 

I just put a blocking diode in mine to prevent that from happening. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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1 hour ago, gyadon4 said:

Thanks  I should also ask what size wire did you run? I was thinking #10 however, a 12 might be heavy enough.

The bigger the wire the less the voltage drop and as distance increases this becomes more important. Not knowing the distance or current draw I cant say for sure, but if I had the choice between 12 or 10 Gauge Id opt for the 10 myself even if 12 would "work". The thing is the current your charging wire will pass depends on several factors: Source voltage, Honda's battery voltage, Hondas other current draws, resistance of the charging wire, RV's alternator regulation voltage, etc., so a pure guess might be only a few up to say 30 amps BUT I CANT SAY NOT KNOWING ALL THE DATA.

As far as any relay, all you need to know is the activation "coil" requires 12 VDC (common automotive relay) and the contact current rating of which 20 amps may well suffice or 30 just to be on the safe side. If the Honda battery is near the charging source voltage the current draw will be small.  The simplest relay description would be for a 12 volt coil with a set of NO 30 amp contacts.  If the run is long due to line voltage drop and subject to the alternator and Honda loads you may not charge much over 10 amps if that much??? A disadvantage of using a diode to prevent reverse discharge (versus the relay set up) is its inherent 0.6 voltage drop and when you're only working with 12 to begin with that's more relevant, even though sure it will still "work" perhaps at slightly less efficiency due to its dropping voltage.

Looks like others beside myself have done this and NOT pull fuses, so all you have to decide is whether or not to add a diode or relay and what activates its closing (Ignition or elsewhere) ???????????

Don't forget overcurrent protection in the charge wire !!!!!!!!! Since BOTH the Honda and the RV have batteries to which this is wired, I protected at BOTH ends...…..

 

John T

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22 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

I just put a blocking diode in mine to prevent that from happening. 

Blocking diodes cause a volt drop, which a relay doesn't. When it comes to battery charging, maximizing voltage to the end, is the name of the game. 

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

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On 9/19/2018 at 5:38 PM, Kirk Wood said:

Keep in mind that the 8hours time at which you need to start the CR-V is 8 hours by the clock, whether you are towing or not.

With all due respect, that's not what the manual for my 2014 CR-V says. The attached screen shot is from the manual.  It specifically says that you should go through the procedure "if you  tow for more than 8 hours" not "if you have the vehicle hitched and ready to be towed for more than 8 hours".

This isn't the first thing in the Honda manual that is ambiguous.  There is a statement that transmission fluid should be changed every 30,000 miles if the vehicle is towed behind a motorhome.  I've spoken with Honda personnel at length about this and no one knows if the statement means change the fluid after 30,000 miles of towing, or if it means 30,000 miles of driving regardless of how far it's been towed, or what?

 

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Here is the relay I used from Napa.  I bought it for my seat heaters (as I mentioned above) and decided to use the same one for my charge line.  It is probably overkill for that purpose, but has been working great for five years now since I installed it.

2000 Kenworth T2000 w/ Cummins N14 and autoshift
2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard
2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan
2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage)
2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage)
My First Solar Install Thread
My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build
My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet!

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9 hours ago, docj said:

With all due respect, that's not what the manual for my 2014 CR-V says. The attached screen shot is from the manual.  It specifically says that you should go through the procedure "if you  tow for more than 8 hours" not "if you have the vehicle hitched and ready to be towed for more than 8 hours".

Doc, good information, your 2014 manual reads a bit different them my 2010 manual which states:

Extended Towing

If you tow more than 300 miles (500

km) in one day, you should repeat

the above procedure at least every

300 miles (500 km), (when you stop

for fuel, etc.)

I don't typically drive much over 300 miles in a single day, but regardless to be on the safe side if I stop at a rest area and am going to be there a while I start the car and let it run a bit then go through the gears and do as the manual states BETTER SAFE THEN SORRY AND NO HARM IN OVER PREPARING AND LUBING UP THE TRANNY EVEN IF MORE OFTEN THEN REQUIRED is my method, but to each their own.  

Finally as far as worrying about leaving the Honda and RV batteries connected when stopped and potential discharging, in order of expense the choices/options are as follows:

1) Simply unplug the Honda when not towing   (now that's super cheap n easy lol)

2) Install a diode in the charge line, but that causes a small voltage drop in the circuit yet still works.

3) Install a NO relay in the charge line. Most installation time and expense, but very handy once in place.

One other choice/option to consider is to feed the Honda charge circuit from the RV or house batteries?? That depends on your set up and house battery and RV battery charging systems. What's best for one rig may not be for another. Then the question is are fuses or circuit breakers or auto reset breakers to be used in the charge line ?? Depends on the rig and a few factors. 

Fun discussion yall, hope we helped the OP

John T  Tows a Honda CRV AWD Four Down with a protected charge line and NEVER had any problems

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11 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Blocking diodes cause a volt drop, which a relay doesn't.

Agree, but in this case, I was not concerned about maximizing voltage but only in preventing discharge. A relay might be somewhat better but the blocking diode would be sufficient, in my opinion, and it is more easily done. As I have mentioned, with the fulltime coach and 2 different CR-Vs I didn't bother to do this or to remove the fuse but we never towed for more than about 6 hours.

10 hours ago, docj said:

With all due respect, that's not what the manual for my 2014 CR-V says. The attached screen shot is from the manual.  It specifically says that you should go through the procedure "if you  tow for more than 8 hours" not "if you have the vehicle hitched and ready to be towed for more than 8 hours".

2

Yours is worded slightly different than our manuals were. I can't give you a screenshot since I don't have the manuals any longer but mine were a 2001 and then 2009. As I remember it stated that you should go through the procedure every 8 hours when towing. I would agree that either version is rather ambiguous but I would rather advice doing it too often than not often enough. As I look at your screenshot, I think our manual had the word "and" between "procedure" and "at least every 8 hours." If you are correct, then you could hook up the RV, do the procedure,  then tow it for 2 hours max per day for 4 days and not do the process again. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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1 hour ago, oldjohnt said:

Finally as far as worrying about leaving the Honda and RV batteries connected when stopped and potential discharging, in order of expense the choices/options are as follows:

1) Simply unplug the Honda when not towing   (now that's super cheap n easy lol)

2) Install a diode in the charge line, but that causes a small voltage drop in the circuit yet still works.

3) Install a NO relay in the charge line. Most installation time and expense, but very handy once in place.

IMHO, just as important is making sure that the Honda's key doesn't stay in the ACC overnight while you are parked which would really drain the battery.  For me that creates a quandary because if I take the key out of the ignition and leave the car hitched, I run the small, but finite, risk of forgetting to put it back before we leave the next morning.  Sure, we need to run the Honda through it's pre-tow procedure, but Murphy's Law says that someday we might forget to do that.

My solution to this is to have attached a small piece of industrial Velcro to the MH's steering wheel and to the keyring for the Honda's key (we use the "Valet key" for towing).  When I take the key out of the Honda when we stop for the night it is immediately Velcroed to the MH's steering wheel where it is both visible and available the next morning.  Maybe I'm overcautious about this, but accidents do happen!

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54 minutes ago, docj said:

Maybe I'm overcautious about this, but accidents do happen!

Hey Doc, I hear you were cut from the same mold lol. We each have our own Honda keys which have the lock/unlock feature right on the key itself which can help with overnight parking and morning restarts. After pre tow procedures and take off in the morning, I start very easyyyyyyyyyy the first few inches to insure all is well, the Honda follows me and all its wheels turn !!!!

 

PS How NOT to tow, jump ahead to 4:32    

 Or even worse lol  

 

John T 

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10 hours ago, docj said:

Velcroed to the MH's steering wheel where it is both visible and available the next morning. 

That is what I did as well if I didn't unhook the CR-V. But we typically stopped very early and did our best to make those stops in places we had not stopped before and so took at least a short drive to see what the community had to offer. More than once we stayed an extra night to see some attraction we had not known was there. But when I did leave the Honda on the towbar I did the same. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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I want to say thank you to all that responded to my questions.  Very informative and has helped me decide which way I will go.  I proves one thing, there is more than one way of doing things.

As someone said I seldom travel 300 miles in a day and I don't think I have much to worry about.

Thanks again

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15 hours ago, gyadon4 said:

I want to say thank you to all that responded to my questions.  Very informative and has helped me decide which way I will go.  I proves one thing, there is more than one way of doing things.

As someone said I seldom travel 300 miles in a day and I don't think I have much to worry about.

Thanks again

 You're welcome, its been fun as well as informative for us all. Like you I seldom tow my Honda CRV 300 miles at a time and indeed there's more then one way of doing things that still "work", be it simplest cheapest and easiest to run a charge wire and disconnect when parked,,,,,,,,,,, Or install a diode in the line but that produces a voltage drop,,,,,,,,,,,, Or go the relay route, more expensive but no diode voltage drop..... Heck there may be even more ways lol but these three choices are plenty to chew on for now.

NOTE, just a side comment:  Ifffffffffff a person had his Toad wired to his HOUSE battery bank,,,,,,,,,And ifffffffff he was parked in the daylight,,,,,,,,,,,,And iffffffffffffff he had solar panels and a charge controller charging his house batteries, he wouldn't have to disconnect during such time out of fear the Toad battery may discharge !! ALL subject to the charging system, capacity, design and wiring etc. etc. When I designed my system I have a switch so if I choose when driving (say at night) my engines alternator can deliver some degree of charging to my house batteries (and Toad if so connected) and my solar panels can, of course, charge my house batteries during the day. I'm NOT saying which is best nor discussing advantages or disadvantages,I'm ONLY throwing out options be they the best or not.  Battery balancing and cable voltage drop and the charging system are all factors that need considered when making these decisions and one size doesn't fit all. If you are charging different batteries and there are long wire runs its difficult to achieve good charge and load balancing, although, things can still "work" to a degree even if NOT the most efficient and absolutely engineering prefect.

 Best wishes n God Bless

John T

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This project has been more expensive than I expected from the beginning.  But that is nothing new.  The first thing I did was go to a RV dealer and got a price for everything installed. Got a quote of $4500.00, base plate, brakebuddy and all installed.  For me that was out of the question.  I have been working on everything from jet engines to tractors all my life.  I am a DIY type of guy.  I thought the base plate was high but you cannot find them used.  Bought one and installed it with the help of Youtube.  Bought most of the items I needed from others that had used them but not damaged them.  I got the equipment to wire the tail lights, easy to install via Youtube.  But when I got to the fuse part and they had a wiring harness for $90 with switch I bulked.  Too expensive for what it is.  I can make that.  Also with the charging equipment, I can do that.

So thanks to all the replies, Youtubers and Google.  There is so much information out there on any subject, if you are an average DIY type it can be done.

Again, Thanks

Gary

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51 minutes ago, gyadon4 said:

There is so much information out there on any subject, if you are an average DIY type it can be done.

You are correct and most of us who own RVs for a long time become more and more of that bent. Just keep safety first in all that you do and be careful and you can do this as many others have before you. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/19/2018 at 3:38 PM, Kirk Wood said:

 If you supply the charge wire that should completely eliminate any need for removing fuses if you remove the key when you stop for the night but do not unhook the CR-V. 

I can see myself easily forgetting to re-insert the key in the toad the next morning, especially if we are trying to get an early start before enough coffee.

 

Would it be reasonable to permanently defeat the steering column locking mechanism in order to not require the key at all while towing?  It seems to me that it would remove one more opportunity for an expensive OOPS moment...

 

-Jim

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8 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

Would it be reasonable to permanently defeat the steering column locking mechanism in order to not require the key at all while towing?  It seems to me that it would remove one more opportunity for an expensive OOPS moment...

 

 

 A much better way is to attach the key for the CR-V to the steering wheel of the RV when you remove it for any reason while connected to the coach. I know that I am not the only one who did that but it was our practice for the entire time that we were towing with a motorhome. Someone suggested that to me when we first started to tow our Ford Ranger behind the 1987 Allegro that we had back in the 90's. I don't remember who first suggested that to me, or I'd give them credit for it. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Just now, Kirk Wood said:

 A much better way is to attach the key for the CR-V to the steering wheel of the RV when you remove it for any reason while connected to the coach. I know that I am not the only one who did that but it was our practice for the entire time that we were towing with a motorhome. Someone suggested that to me when we first started to tow our Ford Ranger behind the 1987 Allegro that we had back in the 90's. I don't remember who first suggested that to me, or I'd give them credit for it. 

I understand, but instead of removing an opportunity for error, that just adds one more.

 

Remove key, put in pocket, walk back to motorhome, see something else that needs to be done, do it, forget to finish original task of attaching key to steering wheel.

 

By defeating the wheel lock, which is nothing more than a (weak) anti-theft device, and which is pointless anyway since the key is right there in the ignition half the time, it seems to me to be a far more idiot-proof solution, no?

 

-Jim

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