LDT weigh ins with travel trailer - HDT immanent

[Pasperry]

Long time lurker, one time poster, thought I'd share some recent weight tickets that have expedited my HDT project.  Trailer is a Grand Design 3170BH, truck is an '06 GMC 3500 Dually (with a Transfer Flow 50 gallon tank in the bed).  Just a little background that this truck doubles as my hunting / fishing truck (with a topper) so fifth wheel really wasn't a consideration as I need the space in the topper for my extra curricular activities.

Truck weighed all on CAT scales...

10,320 (5020 front axle and 5300 rear axle) - truck in "fishing/camping" configuration with 84 gallons of fuel, 2 adults, 2 kids, Finn the dog, and camping stuffs

18,800 (4640 front axle, 6720 rear axle, and 7440 trailer) - weight distribution hitch, 84 gallons of fuel, 2 adults, 2 kids, Finn the dog, camping stuffs, and empty RV tanks

19,480 (4440 front axle, 6920 rear axle, and 8120 trailer) - standard hitch, 84 gallons of fuel, 2 adults, 2 kids, Finn the dog, camping stuffs, and 1/2 full gray, black, and freshwater tanks (give or take)

So the auxiliary tank weighs 263 pounds and full has ~350 pounds of fuel in it, for a total of ~500 pounds.  We just got back from a month long Alaska trip and I can say with confidence I wouldn't do it without having extra fuel capacity.  Having said that, even if we didn't have the tank we'd still only be 500 pounds lighter.  In current form and loading we're a whopping 40 pounds under max GVWR (11,400).

My conclusions are as follows (and somewhat obvious):

1.  An HDT based hauler is in the works 

2.  A shocking number of people towing big bumper-pulls and 5rs in trucks similar to mine (similar GVWR) are massively overweight (the only "luxury" items we carry are the extra tank, some tools, and a grill)

 

My only question to the group, though, is would you expect more than 200 pounds difference by using the weight distribution hitch vs not?

[jkoenig24]

I think the amount of weight transfer is determined by the spring bars used on a WDH. I'd check with the manufacturer of whatever WDH you choose to use and, follow their recommendation.

 

You are right in that so many RVers, especially newbies, are overloading their systems. Truck salesmen just want to sell whatever truck is currently on their lot and tell buyers "of course this truck will pull your trailer".  Pulling is the easy part. Controlling a heavy trailer, especially under less than ideal circumstances is a whole other story and then, you say you want to stop all that weight.....

Chad Heiser recently posted about a recent experience he had with a LGT.

[Lance A Lott]

Hi a wheight distributing hitch removes tongue wheight and speads it over the truck. In my understanding of the theory behind it a 1000 lb set of bars would put 500 on the front and take 500 of the rear. I dought it is that even. I use them on everything I bumper pull and am a believer. We have several brands including a Hemsly (spelling) and a cam lock style. They all work well. I have found the best way for me to set the chain length is on level ground, leval the trailer set the ball 2-3 inches higher than the hitch, this will depend on how heavy a truck you have as well as if you have air suspension, after you hitch up try and bring the trailer back to level. This is not always possible, if you want a front high ride then compensate for that before seting the ball hight.

 I hope this makes sense, my wife says I cant give directions worth a darn.

[noteven]

One thing about a class 8 set back front axle HDT ... you don’t need to transfer weight to the steer axle .....

Is your dually rig a scary business to travel with? 

[Pasperry]

I've put about 25k miles on the setup so far in MT, WY, ID, and WA along with a fairly circuitous route to AK and back.  I've only had 2 "soil the pants" moments. 

One coming down an 8% grade, curvy 7+ mile hill in eastern WA (not nearly enough engine braking).

The other was just the other day coming into Billings MT when a car pulled out in front of me and I had to stop as hard as I could and it wasn't enough for my desired margin of safety.

So overall it's honestly not that scary, but I don't want it to get the point of scary before making the switch later this fall.

[Lance A Lott]

My wife said to me, at the botom of the western slope of the Big Horns. "we need a biger truck!" I slyly said well if you think so dear. 

I never had a "soil the pants" moment with the ton flatbed but I did with my fathers 2500 towing the same trailer I took over the Big Horns.

[mr. cob]

1 hour ago, Pasperry said:

I've put about 25k miles on the setup so far in MT, WY, ID, and WA along with a fairly circuitous route to AK and back.  I've only had 2 "soil the pants" moments. 

One coming down an 8% grade, curvy 7+ mile hill in eastern WA (not nearly enough engine braking).

The other was just the other day coming into Billings MT when a car pulled out in front of me and I had to stop as hard as I could and it wasn't enough for my desired margin of safety.

So overall it's honestly not that scary, but I don't want it to get the point of scary before making the switch later this fall.

Howdy Pasperry,

That grade in eastern Washington, I am guessing its on Hwy 2, coming down the hill from Waterville, that's the one that convinced me after having to do a panic stop near the bottom that I NEEDED a real truck.  DO IT, you will never regret the decision.

Dave

[MoSKP9]

There are a lot of advantages to an HDT towing a larger TT or 5er. One reason that I seldom see talked about is trailer brake failure. So many things have to work prior to the trailer brakes actuation. 

1. TV brake actuator has to be adjusted properly and actually function. 

2. Usually a 10 gauge wire has to be separately run for both 12V positive and 12V Negative all the way from battery to EOH trailer brake actuator as most TV use a smaller gauge wire.

3. The EOH trailer brake pump has to work properly.

4. The brake signal wiring has to have flawless connections all the way including the problematic plug.

5. Trailer brake flexible and steel lines have to be leak free.

6. All brake wheel components have to work.

Everyone should take their TV and trailer out to a non traffic area and disconnect the trailer plug and practice stopping the trailer. This is your plan B for when you are driving and your trailer brakes fail to work. You are probably going to wish that you were driving an HDT if it ever happens to you. Of course,  you can leave a whole lot of extra room, however,  that won't matter if someone pulls out of a side street in front of you etc. Get your HDT as soon as you can. 

 

[HERO Maker]

And that is why I use an HDT, with air over hydraulic disk brakes on the trailer. None of that electric stuff loosing it's power for me.  That's not to say that you can't have a problem with a line popping and leak all your fluid on the ground, like it did to me in the Rockies one year!  But the fact that I had the HDT pulling that rig made is pretty safe.

I believe that is the single most important reason for pulling with an HDT.

[MoSKP9]

2 minutes ago, HERO Maker said:

And that is why I use an HDT, with air over hydraulic disk brakes on the trailer. None of that electric stuff loosing it's power for me.  That's not to say that you can't have a problem with a line popping and leak all your fluid on the ground, like it did to me in the Rockies one year!  But the fact that I had the HDT pulling that rig made is pretty safe.

I believe that is the single most important reason for pulling with an HDT.

AMEN to that. I have the Hayes air brake controller with the proper size wiring and a military style magnetic trailer plug (EZ Connector). Also have air disc brakes on all wheels on my HDT, so it stops good even without the trailer brakes. Not to mention the fact that you usually have a 2 speed engine compression brake for the hills with an HDT.

[rickeieio]

I'll echo Rocky's comments.  I'm running the same system as he, BluDot.

We first got serious about looking into towing with a larger truck while going down Monarch Pass in Colorado.  We had a 14k# fiver towed by a F-350.  I was fiddling with the brake controller and tapping the brakes as we descended the pass.  Memories of going down Wolf Creek with a pop-up and no brakes flashed through my cranium......  My DW asked if everything was okay, and I explained that if anything went wrong, we would be going home in a body bag.

We have experienced several brake failures since switching to the HDT.  Broken wire under the trailer, bad ground in a junction box, and total controller failure.  All were non-events, because we had ample truck.

There's no going back........

 

[noteven]

I had a brake controller fail while towing 15000 lbs trailer with the won ton. 

The GCW of that same trailer and the little KW dually is less than the brake rating of the truck itself. I like that configuration...

 

 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

We drove thru a wreck happening around us and came thru unscathed except for losing the RV brakes.  A front lower valance of a Toyota 4Runner will fit under a Dodge dually front and rear axles, but not a Dexter Axle on 16" tires.  Lost the brake line on the trailer.  A 18500lb Carrilite will shove a Dodge 3500 down the road all day.  Truck performed as designed, Anti-lock brakes were Anti-Locking, Transmission downshifting, Pac-Brake braking, anti-stain seating not staining....but 9 tons of momentum at 70mph is a pure B!t@h to stop.  

We bought the Volvo 3 months later...... Trailer Brakes?  Who needs 'em.......

[Lance A Lott]

Well To make my self look stupid I will share. I drove my 630 Volvo 250 miles with no trailer brakes about12-13k and thought I would have to read the book for my direct link controller as the trailer brakes felt light and didn't seem to have more power when i thought I was ajusting them. Turned out I had not gotten the obd plug in tight. 

I never had a hard time stopping and I thought they were working just not good enough. By the way they work manually even if not geting a signal from the truck.