Where is the best place to title a 5th wheel trailer when you don't know where you are going to live?

[leavingsoon]

Hello everyone,

Last year we purchased a 2008 5th wheel trailer while living in Illinois. I didn't title it because we were planning to move to Oregon....but now we are not sure about that move....we are actually looking at Texas or Arizona or Washington. In Oregon there is no sales tax so I figured no reason to title in Illinois thinking we were looking at Oregon, but in Oregon you have to have the vehicle physically there so they can verify the VIN.

I am looking for the best option to title/register so I don't have to keep changing no matter where we ultimately live. I have heard several states mentioned being good for different reasons. I know some choose SD, Florida, Texas, and even Montana. Do all these states charge sales tax? I have been reading through some of the previous post on this issue but haven't figured it out yet.

Any comments would be appreciated....thanks much!

[Optimistic Paranoid]

People who choose FL, SD, and TX usually do so because they don't have state INCOME taxes.  But these states still have to raise money SOMEHOW to pay for roads and stuff, so they usually have higher fees and sales taxes than states that have a state income tax.

(With the exception of places like CA, MA, NY, etc. where EVERYTHING - sales tax, income tax, fees - is high as a kite.)

[Kirk W]

14 minutes ago, leavingsoon said:

I am looking for the best option to title/register so I don't have to keep changing no matter where we ultimately live

I am not sure what you have in mind but it seems to me that you do not really understand the domicile issue. It isn't legal for us to choose a state to register our vehicle in based only on cost and convenience. We must declare that we live somewhere even if our RV is our only home and we are traveling constantly. Once you stop travel, the vehicle registration laws of that state will apply and you will be required to move the registration of all vehicles that you keep in that state where you then are. It sounds as though you are not planning to change domicile until you figure things out so that makes it simple. Your domicile has not changed so registrations should be where you are. I suggest that you read this article before you make your decisions.

Simplifying the Complex Issue of Domicile Law

[JRP]

Leavingsoon,  maybe you just worded your question wrong or maybe you really don't understand. The question is not where to register your vehicle, the question is which state do you want as your new home state. Vehicle registration is just one of the many factors that go into choosing your new home state. You can't really say I'm going to become a resident/domicile of the state of Texas or Fl or SD, but I'm going to register my vehicle in some other state to avoid sales tax. (I'm not a fan of the Montana LLC game, so I'll let others explain that)

How have you been using an untitled, unregistered vehicle since last year?  or is it stored somewhere, not in use?

I agree with Kirk, since you have not yet changed domicile, you are legally still a resident of Ill and that vehicle should have been registered in Ill. Once you establish a new domicile state, then you can transfer all your vehicles, insurances, taxes, drivers lic, voter reg, social security, medicare, etc to your new home state. 

Yes all those fulltimer states have some degree of sales/use/excise tax on vehicles. In SD its a 4% excise tax, in Fl its 6% and TX 6.25%

 

[leavingsoon]

Thanks guys.... and you are probably correct, I don't have a clue what I am doing. I will spend some additional time reading up on the subject. I have probably not given enough information in my question. The trailer was purchased through a dealer and delivered to our site with a 30 day dealer tag and parked since purchased....never moved. 

I will continue reading on the subject.... thanks much!

[rynosback]

8 hours ago, JRP said:

Leavingsoon,  maybe you just worded your question wrong or maybe you really don't understand. The question is not where to register your vehicle, the question is which state do you want as your new home state. Vehicle registration is just one of the many factors that go into choosing your new home state. You can't really say I'm going to become a resident/domicile of the state of Texas or Fl or SD, but I'm going to register my vehicle in some other state to avoid sales tax. (I'm not a fan of the Montana LLC game, so I'll let others explain that)

How have you been using an untitled, unregistered vehicle since last year?  or is it stored somewhere, not in use?

I agree with Kirk, since you have not yet changed domicile, you are legally still a resident of Ill and that vehicle should have been registered in Ill. Once you establish a new domicile state, then you can transfer all your vehicles, insurances, taxes, drivers lic, voter reg, social security, medicare, etc to your new home state. 

Yes all those fulltimer states have some degree of sales/use/excise tax on vehicles. In SD its a 4% excise tax, in Fl its 6% and TX 6.25%

 

I believe that if you paid 4% or more in another state that you do not owe the 4% excise tax in SD.  

[rynosback]

46 minutes ago, leavingsoon said:

Thanks guys.... and you are probably correct, I don't have a clue what I am doing. I will spend some additional time reading up on the subject. I have probably not given enough information in my question. The trailer was purchased through a dealer and delivered to our site with a 30 day dealer tag and parked since purchased....never moved. 

I will continue reading on the subject.... thanks much!

You want to check other things like voting, insurance (health and auto) and any other things that might effect you.  Like stated TX, Fla and SD are the three friendly fulltimer RVer stated to claim as your domicile.  I went with SD.

[JRP]

1 minute ago, rynosback said:

I believe that if you paid 4% or more in another state that you do not owe the 4% excise tax in SD.  

Yes that's correct, as long as you have documentation. Most (not all) states have reciprocal tax agreements and don't make you pay twice on the same vehicle.  Even If you go from a low tax state to a higher one, you would only owe the difference. If you had paid the 4% in SD, then later decided to move to Fl where its 6%, you would only owe them the 2% difference (assuming you kept the documentation showing the 4% paid to SD).

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, leavingsoon said:

The trailer was purchased through a dealer and delivered to our site with a 30 day dealer tag and parked since purchased....never moved. 

1

So I would assume that means that you have never completed the vehicle registration to get license plates for it? Depending on how long it has been since you took delivery, you may have a problem when you do register it, at least in some states. Each state has a set of rules and laws regarding vehicle registrations and when it must be done. Since your documentation will show the date of purchase, you will need to somehow explain the time lapse since then as I'm sure that IL laws do require you to license a vehicle within a time period, as do most states. If IL has an annual tax that is collected as part of the registration fees, you may have to pay that. Your domicile is currently in IL under any legal definition you choose so that is the law which applies. You need to figure out where you plan to claim as domicile and get that done soon. You can't legally have two domiciles so if you are still living and are employed in IL I suspect that you have little choice in meeting their legal requirements. You might be able to move without being caught, but if caught there could be penalties. 

Of the three states that you mention to reside in, only TX is popular as a domicile for fulltimers for differing reasons. Keep in mind that not many states will accept a mail forwarding service as your legal address. I don't believe that WA is one of those that do. If you should choose to join the Escapees and use their mail service as your domicile, you will find that both the Escapees RV Club and the Polk Co. Texas authorities are very helpful to new folks in getting things set up. If you have not yet started to read up on domicile and what it means, you need to do that ASAP!

The Ten Commandments of Domicile                        Choosing Your State

How to Choose a State of Domicile

 

[leavingsoon]

Thanks Kirk.... I appreciate the help.... this is all new to us and lots to learn.

You are correct, I never titled (therefore registered) the trailer in Illinois simply because we had plans to move to Oregon. My thoughts were since the trailer was parked stationary in Illinois and no plans to move it until the move to Oregon, why title in Illinois when I would just have to turn around and title in OR at a later date. I even called the DMV in OR and they said they would issue me a temporary plate for travel to OR when that time came.

But then when OR move fell off the radar because of work and family issues we ended up moving to WA. But that also changed as of a couple months ago and now we are looking at TX or AZ. Our life is somewhat complicated at the present time and still both working fulltime trying to determine where to ultimately reside.

It sounds like even though I know we are not going to continue to reside in IL maybe I should just go to the local DMV and title the trailer in IL so I can get a title and plate so the trailer can be moved around. I know all I have to do it walk in and they will title it even 18 months later, all they want is the 6 3/4% sales tax. But then when we do establish the new state of residency I will the just have to re-title in that state. I guess that was the reason I was asking the original question. I hope my ramblings made sense....

[Kirk W]

34 minutes ago, leavingsoon said:

But then when we do establish the new state of residency I will the just have to re-title in that state.

Sounds as though you haven't retired like you were planning? It has often been said, if you wait to retire until you know that you have enough money, you will never retire. I struggled with that myself as I took an early retirement as early as I could and did hesitate at the last moment but then did so. As I look back now (18 years later) I am so happy that I did go out early!

[leavingsoon]

That is correct....we are both still working age.... 60 and 56

[FL-JOE]

5 hours ago, leavingsoon said:

Thanks Kirk.... I appreciate the help.... this is all new to us and lots to learn.

You are correct, I never titled (therefore registered) the trailer in Illinois simply because we had plans to move to Oregon. My thoughts were since the trailer was parked stationary in Illinois and no plans to move it until the move to Oregon, why title in Illinois when I would just have to turn around and title in OR at a later date. I even called the DMV in OR and they said they would issue me a temporary plate for travel to OR when that time came.

But then when OR move fell off the radar because of work and family issues we ended up moving to WA. But that also changed as of a couple months ago and now we are looking at TX or AZ. Our life is somewhat complicated at the present time and still both working fulltime trying to determine where to ultimately reside.

It sounds like even though I know we are not going to continue to reside in IL maybe I should just go to the local DMV and title the trailer in IL so I can get a title and plate so the trailer can be moved around. I know all I have to do it walk in and they will title it even 18 months later, all they want is the 6 3/4% sales tax. But then when we do establish the new state of residency I will the just have to re-title in that state. I guess that was the reason I was asking the original question. I hope my ramblings made sense....

You didn't really say when "last year" you purchased the fiver.  Being from Illinois, plus the job I retired from, I can tell you what will probably happen when you take your paperwork into the Driver's License station.  If the dealer has assigned the title to you with it already dated then they will probably collect the sales tax, re-assign the title to you, plus sell you the two years registration due.  If the title isn't signed over to you and/or dated then you don't want to take that in there because in Illinois and "open" title is illegal in this circumstance.  

The other issue is that it doesn't matter if the vehicle is being driven or stays parked in a campground, Illinois law required it to have valid registration.  In other words, they want their money.  It has been a misconception for years that you can buy a vehicle, title it in Illinois, and if you just park it you are good to go.  

Looking to the future.  When you end up deciding on what State you are going to call home how will they respond when you ask them to transfer an open unassigned title on an RV that has not been registered?  I would think that any state would have issues with that situation. 

[leavingsoon]

17 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

You didn't really say when "last year" you purchased the fiver.  Being from Illinois, plus the job I retired from, I can tell you what will probably happen when you take your paperwork into the Driver's License station.  If the dealer has assigned the title to you with it already dated then they will probably collect the sales tax, re-assign the title to you, plus sell you the two years registration due.  If the title isn't signed over to you and/or dated then you don't want to take that in there because in Illinois and "open" title is illegal in this circumstance.  

The other issue is that it doesn't matter if the vehicle is being driven or stays parked in a campground, Illinois law required it to have valid registration.  In other words, they want their money.  It has been a misconception for years that you can buy a vehicle, title it in Illinois, and if you just park it you are good to go.  

Looking to the future.  When you end up deciding on what State you are going to call home how will they respond when you ask them to transfer an open unassigned title on an RV that has not been registered?  I would think that any state would have issues with that situation. 

Thanks FL-JOE....I appreciate the feedback.

The title is not "open", it is filled in with my name. I purchased the trailer from a dealer in TX in May 2017 and yes it is still in the same status today.

When I walk into the DMV to title it they will simply title it for $95.00 (and give me the option of purchasing a plate for it or not) and charge me sales tax on the purchase. I have done this two previous times in the past with two other 5th wheel campers and at least four cargo trailers ....they do not require me to purchase the plate if it is not driven on the road.

When I called Oregon DMV two months ago and explained the situation they told me to come into their office and they would issue me a temporary tag for transport ($30.00) from Illinois to Oregon so they could physically verify the VIN number then they would title it and issue me a two year plate if I wanted a plate.

Seems all states have their own rules....

[Pappy Yokum]

My preference:  South Dakota

For friendly, reliable info,  call - Americas Mailbox, Box Elder, SD.

BTW - AM also has mail forwarding in FL -&- SKPs is also avail in SD.

[FL-JOE]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 8:51 AM, leavingsoon said:

Thanks FL-JOE....I appreciate the feedback.

The title is not "open", it is filled in with my name. I purchased the trailer from a dealer in TX in May 2017 and yes it is still in the same status today.

When I walk into the DMV to title it they will simply title it for $95.00 (and give me the option of purchasing a plate for it or not) and charge me sales tax on the purchase. I have done this two previous times in the past with two other 5th wheel campers and at least four cargo trailers ....they do not require me to purchase the plate if it is not driven on the road.

When I called Oregon DMV two months ago and explained the situation they told me to come into their office and they would issue me a temporary tag for transport ($30.00) from Illinois to Oregon so they could physically verify the VIN number then they would title it and issue me a two year plate if I wanted a plate.

Seems all states have their own rules....

Do not confuse how an Illinois DMV office will treat this situation and how a LEO would.  A clerk at the DMV can not force you to purchase the Illinois registration plate along with transferring the title to Illinois from Texas.  However, unless something has changed drastically over the past 8 years since I retired, you are still required to maintain valid registration on that RV if it is titled in Illinois.  I will agree that if you sneak it into your back yard and never move it there is about a 100% chance you would never get a ticket for no registration, however it is still "suppose" to have a valid RV trailer plate.   We are actually in a park district CG in central Illinois currently.  A couple weeks ago everyone had to produce copies of their registrations for the office to copy.  This was targeted to a couple specific individuals who had old Illinois RV plates on their vehicles and had not updated them for several years.  

Since you have purchased several trailers out of state and brought them back to Illinois, titles them, paid sales tax on them, but never registered them, then I'm not sure why you are asking the original questions in your post.  Why not just do the same thing with this one, then when you finally decide where your new domicile will be just change the unregistered RV and all your other vehicles over?

[leavingsoon]

Thanks Joe.... very helpful info....I appreciate the feedback and will try to get our ducks in a row.

[Fhkw9DPJ8V1g]

Maybe things are different in Illinois but how do you insure a 5th wheel without having it registered and tagged? I'm guessing that you don't have it insured either?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

31 minutes ago, DonCoyote said:

Maybe things are different in Illinois but how do you insure a 5th wheel without having it registered and tagged? I'm guessing that you don't have it insured either?

 

I could be mistaken - it's been known to happen - but I was under the impression that the TOW VEHICLE'S liability insurance automatically covered any trailer you are towing.  If you want collision and/or comprehensive, would you need license plates on it if you have a title that clearly identifies it?

[OregonJim]

On 9/9/2018 at 7:02 AM, FL-JOE said:

Do not confuse how an Illinois DMV office will treat this situation and how a LEO would. 

That is a good point.  The DMV is not an enforcement agency.

 

Years ago, I purchased a motorcycle on a whim.  I learned how to ride as a kid, but realized (after I bought it) that I had never bothered to get my motorcycle endorsement.  So I made an appointment to take the test at the DMV, and I asked them if it was legal to ride my motorcycle to the DMV to take the test.  They told me that they were not an enforcement agency, and to "try and not get caught".  Since then, I treat what the DMV says as not necessarily the same as what a LEO (or judge) would say.

 

-Jim