50 Amp RV Plug to 250V/30A (3 Wire) Dryer Plug

[oldjohnt]

10 hours ago, NoDirectionHome said:

Yeah, even thought of driving in a copper ground bar but, I'm too old to have come this far and survived to be knocked off by a chafed wire.  I'm gonna trench a line and put in an RV pedestal.  Ya can't eat the money, especially if you're dead.

GREAT IDEA Congratulations...…….. By the way,  a copper rod driven into the earth ESPECIALLY if ones not already there, is what's called in the NEC as I best recall, a "Made Electrode" and its a good safety measure to help protect against lightning and surges. In our jurisdiction that necessary and required earth grounding of the Neutral (usually via a No 4 soft copper wire to the grounding electrode(s),  occurred near the weatherhead riser,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or in the meter base,,,,,,,,,or the main service entrance panelboard. Neutral Ground BONDING took place typically in the main service entrance panel.

If  they make ?????? and you can purchase some of the gray type UF direct burial rated 6/3 with Ground (that's 4 conductors) that will work or better yet place perhaps 4 THWN 6 gauge conductors (Red Black White Bare/Green) inside buried conduit out to the pedestal....If the distance is excessive and voltage drop becomes an issue upsize may be necessary. Its handy to have an RV park type of power pedestal that also has a 15 or 20 amp 120 volt GFCI receptacle for convenience use and, of course, circuit breakers.    Its fun to spend your money lol

Congratulations and thanks again for the feedback. 

John T

[Kirk W]

12 hours ago, NoDirectionHome said:

Yeah, even thought of driving in a copper ground bar but, I'm too old to have come this far and survived to be knocked off by a chafed wire.  I'm gonna trench a line and put in an RV pedestal.  Ya can't eat the money, especially if you're dead.

Now you are thinking the right way! When I read exchanges like those in this thread I always remember a saying from the Navy Chief Electrician who taught my electrical safety course. "There are many old electricians and there are also bold electricians, but there are very few old bold electricians." It will be money well spent. 

[57becky]

On 9/5/2018 at 6:43 AM, Optimistic Paranoid said:

I've been trying to imagine what would happen to a PLUMBER who tried to work on a pipe that some idiot was using as a conductor.  I imagine if he died, the person who did it would not only be looking at a MASSIVE civil suit, he'd also be looking at an involuntary manslaughter charge.

I was sent out to check an underground direct buried service some years ago due to our troubleman finding good voltage at a customer's house service panel, as the customer's son kept getting bit when taking a shower.  I got there, isolated the service cables and found no faults in any of the cable.  While looking over the area, I saw that an old water softener had been replaced with a new one and the plumber had used plastic to re-plumb the new unit.  I also found that the panel ground was attached to the water pipe, but now, due to the reworked plumbing, there was no panel ground.  I advised the customer that I could not reconnect the service until suitable grounds had been installed.  She contacted an electrician who came out while I was still there, and he drove a couple of ground rods and made a ground connection to the panel.  I then reconnected the service.  I found out later on, that the customer wanted the utility I worked for to pay for the electrician's bill for the work he did, which they denied.  This was an older house, and newer homes were using a ground separate from the plumbing system.  Fortunately, the plumber must have kept clear of any electric while he was doing the plumbing work.

[oldjohnt]

16 hours ago, 57becky said:

I also found that the panel ground was attached to the water pipe, but now, due to the reworked plumbing, there was no panel ground

In days gone by when incoming utility services were primarily buried conductive pipe, it was commonly used as a "Grounding Electrode" to which the Electrical Service Entrance Neutral (aka Grounded conductor) was bonded, but for several years now with so much plastic non conductive pipe its not  adequate. If there's no suitable conductive underground utility piping, in our jurisdiction like many NEC compliant locations we utilized a "Made Electrode" by driving a copper rod into mother earth then testing it and if it didn't pass we moved over and drove a second. The code when I was practicing required Bonding to 'All Readily Available Grounding Electrodes' including such things as buried conductive utility piping, structural frame steel, foundation steel etc and finally driven ground rods. If the guy was getting shocked in the shower there had to be a voltage difference not getting grounded OUCH …………………..

So for the non sparkies YES proper buried conductive utility pipes can be used as a Grounding Electrode and bonded to the electrical service entrance Neutral, but they obviously CAN NOTTTTTTTTTT be used to carry normal return current !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Neutral is for normal return current, Equipment Ground is ONLY for fault current NEVER normal return !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's the reason later model appliances now for safety utilize separate Neutrals and Grounds UNLIKE older equipment when the Ground was scabbed and used for a Neutral or Neutral was used as Ground grrrrrrrrrrrrrr lol   

John T

[Sehc]

I worked in a water utility. We had jumper cables to connect each side of the meter before replacing meter. More than once, when cutting an underground water line for a street connection upgrade, we found sparks. I also was raised in a house without ground outlets. I remember may times a shock. I also knew of people that died from the 120V. I will keep my green wires.

[Lou Schneider]

I once thought about using an unused dryer outlet in this fashion.  When I took the outlet apart, I found the third pin was connected to nothing but the metal frame of the electrical box, which then relied on the the surface mount metallic conduit to get back to the distribution panel.

All it would have taken is one loose screw in the couplers joining the 10 ft. lengths of EMT to make every exposed section of the conduit between that point and the trailer electrically hot.

[Kirk W]

51 minutes ago, Sehc said:

I also knew of people that died from the 120V. I will keep my green wires.

There are more people killed by 120v-ac than any other electrical source. In fact it has been reported to be more than all other sources combined. 

[oldjohnt]

5 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

All it would have taken is one loose screw in the couplers joining the 10 ft. lengths of EMT to make every exposed section of the conduit between that point and the trailer electrically hot.

Lou, even where the NEC allowed metallic conduit/raceway,  with all the proper couplers and connectors (which amateurs and even some electricians NEVER used correctly if at all) as the Equipment GroundING Conductor, in all my years of engineering design I NEVER specified its use, but instead the Green wire conductors throughout even though it increased the cost.

 Of course, the mere absence of the Equipment Grounding Conductor system/path bond doesn't necessarily energize everything else at 120 Volts, while using the Ground as a Neutral can indeed make it a live current carrier with which I don't like my body in parallel with !!! I grew up in the old 2 wire system with NO green grounds and in those days they manufactured so called "Hot Chassis" radios  where the metal chassis was bonded to one of the two incoming wires and they did NOT use polarized plugs, so the metal chassis had a 50 50 chance of being HOT YIKES although the radios had plastic outer cases.     

Likewise I ALWAYS specified grounding metal outlet boxes as well as the receptacles green grounding screw direct to the bare equipment grounding conductor versus relying on grounding bushings and the sort.     

Fun sparky chatting with you, I enjoy your postings.

John T