Heating the basement

[noteven]

Me toy hauler is a south country rig - it’s single LP forced air and dust furnace supplies some heat to the basement but once the sustained temps are below freezing the basement is not warm enough. When sitting and on shore power I can supplement. 

Idea 1:

When boondocking / repositioning I was thinking about installing a small pump and controls that would circulate the fresh water to the hot water heater. The controls could be set to hold the fresh water tank at a temperature, or the basement itself at a certain temp...

The fresh tank would become a radiator in effect...

Idea 2:

A Webasto air heater. Diesel is the most common in the heavy truck business for cab heating when parked but they also sell a gasoline model. 

 

Neither ideas draw many amps vs heat produced. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dartmouth01]

In my rig I used a 12V computer fan to force warm air from the living space into the duct that feeds the underbelly.  This was because I was actually using electric heat since I had a hookup with included electric, so I had no furnace heat to push through the duct.  Was a simple and cost effective solution for me at least.

[Wrknrvr]

 On most RV furnaces there are sometimes extra duct openings on the furnace  You maybe able to sneak some air to the basement area with your existing furnace . If you can get it to the rear then the returning air will heat the whole floor.

 

just a thought,.  Vern

[FL-JOE]

We used to place a ceramic heater in our fiver's bottom storage when camped in temps below 40 degrees.  It was nice to get up in the morning and have warm floors.  Of course when boondocking it would require a power source.

[noteven]

Thanks for the ideas.

I forgot to mention I don’t use the furnace much except when away from the trailer or travelling in cold weather. I use a catalytic heater in the living area. Is why I’m dreaming about a stand alone low electricity load basement heat source. 

Why is this guy asking about heat? We had our first frost since spring at sunrise August 28, 2018.

[Wrknrvr]

 Signs of frost have been our place for two weeks. 

 

 Thinking about my in ground water and waste water line since last years episode

 

 Vern

[noteven]

Don’t be getting froze down again Vern...

[Kirk W]

Quote

We used to place a ceramic heater in our fiver's bottom storage when camped in temps below 40 degrees.

While not practical for dry camping without electric power, I would never sleep with this in operation either since it could start a fire. When power is available, one or two electric drop lights are usually enough to keep temperatures above freezing in most RVs and are far less likely to start a fire.

[FL-JOE]

1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

While not practical for dry camping without electric power, I would never sleep with this in operation either since it could start a fire. When power is available, one or two electric drop lights are usually enough to keep temperatures above freezing in most RVs and are far less likely to start a fire.

I'm not sure how a ceramic box heater could start a fire, you can't even burn your hand on it.  I think you have to use your head on where you put it in the storage area, obviously not close to anything in case it would malfunction.  I would worry more about some cheap drop light that you can't touch with your hand it is so hot.

In addition Kirk, every RV I have ever taken possession of I have installed at least two fire/smoke detectors in the bottom storage areas.  I think they should be required just as they are in the living areas of RVs.

[bigjim]

I assume you mean using incandesant bulbs.  Are they still available? Even with those I would think that placement  would be key as they can get hot enough to start a fire if not properly placed.

[noteven]

I don’t want a heat source that requires 110volt power supplied when boondocking and/or towing. 

12volt and hydrocarbon fuel, that fires automatically when needed, like the Webasto mentioned above, or having the circulating pump / water heater system, or both. 

[Kirk W]

40 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

In addition Kirk, every RV I have ever taken possession of I have installed at least two fire/smoke detectors in the bottom storage areas. 

In this case, I see no problem there either, but I would use one of the types that also triggers another located in the bedroom. I don't remember ever having seen a smoke detector in a basement compartment, but it would be a good thing. In our previous motorhome the water heater, 120V distribution panel, and converter were all in one basement compartment and it should have had a smoke detector! I must say that while I consider myself to be very safety aware, I never thought of that and probably should have. 

Quote

I would think that placement  would be key as they can get hot enough to start a fire if not properly placed.

Most drop lights have a safety shield to prevent that as long as you match the proper wattage for the selected light and you need to use good judgment with any heat source.  They are getting hard to find and it wouldn't be good without shore power.

[ALLOY]

As Vern said I've run two 3" furnace ducts into the basement. Each has a knife (dust collector) valve so heat only goes into the basement when needed.

We also have a Propex 2100 propane heater that is ducted into the basement and a boot drying locker.

We have 2 direct vent heaters for use outside but these never come inside the trailer.

[noteven]

Hi Alloy - I’m going to check out the Propex heater. Thanks

[Jack Mayer]

Propex or Webasto are both excellent heaters designed for commercial application. The Webasto is widely used in semi trucks.  It is likely overkill in a basement unless you really want it warm. But you will occasionally see them in some of the custom 5ers. We will have one in our new 5er; diesel fired. 

[noteven]

The Propex looks good but my rig only carries 60lbs of LPG right now. Users on a Westphalia forum report it is quieter on startup than Webastos and Espars. New price is not bad.

Webastos are far more common in Canada and the USA and now available and serviced through Cummins. They come available in the gently used market as well. I have a 30 US gal fuel tank I could supply it with. This would be a 400 hour supply of fuel for the 7000 btu model and would be easy to replenish from the truck if needed.

[ALLOY]

I had Bosch - Wallace - Webasto - Espar - Propex o nthe list when I was looking for back up heater for the Suburban furnace.

The primary concern was low amp draw, after this noise and installation.

At +/- 200W ( through an inverter) draw and very little noise a Bosch Buderus condensing boiler is ideal but the install was going to be hundred plus hours on a trailer that is not used more than 30 days during the winter.

https://www.bosch-climate.us/files/75H995352-_New_SSB_Residential_brochure_8-30-17_US_1.pdf

 

Wallace is less amp draw than Webasto/Espar.  Price and a tank with fill/venting kept me from choosing one of these.

https://www.scanmarineusa.com/wp-content/uploads/30GB-2018s.pdf

 

Price, low power and noise is why I chose the Propex.  The difficult part was finding a location that kept the heating ducts and the exhaust as short (less than 6') as possible. 

These are the valves. The ducting for the Suburban and Propex is 4" metal.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LPPF0S6/ref=twister_B01NASOMOX?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

 

 

 

 

[noteven]

Thanks Alloy - is the Propex a complicated device in your opinion?

I have a vintage 10ft plus cab over Alaskan camper with a direct vent propane heater with room temp control that requires 0 volts. Standing pilot and basic gas control. It was about 40F in the camper when I lit it last night. It is 34F outside today at sunrise. It has kept the camper at 68F all night on setting 2 out of 9. I have only been asked 8 times by ice fishing shack owners if I want to “upgrade” my camper with a “modern” Heater and sell them this one 😀

I am attracted to the simplicity of propane equipment vs pumps and so on...

I’ve discovered a Manchester tank that is available that could be installed on my trailer to increase LPG capacity...

[ALLOY]

It is more complicated than one of these  http://ventedcatheater.com/2.html  but less complicated than a Webasto/Espar.

Our 35,000btu Suburban draws 9.2 amps and the 10,300btu Propex draws 2.2amps.  The exhaust temp on the Propex is 20 degrees lower which makes it more efficient and the fan it does not produce a high pitch whine.

Manchester, Flame King and Sleegers make ASME propane tanks that can be permanently install and do not need testing after 10 years.

 

 

[Wrknrvr]

 If you need a fuel tank to put deisel fuel in I convetred a 40 lb propane bottle for my Auquahot system . It has a return and vent lines installed. Fill it from our HDT with a pump and 30' fuel hose.

 

 I just finish building a 20 + - gallon gasoline tank for my generator on out HDT. It was a used horizontal propane tank from a junked class C Rv. It can be filled with a pump at a gas station.

 

 Under floor heating in a fifth where is so much better than a propane furnace .

 

 Now another simple idea would be to install a coil of copper on the rear side on the propane water heater with a heat transfer mastic. Then a simple low amp circulating pump to move the antifreeze solution. Now installing the Pex tubing for heat transfer to the ear of a fifth where my get interesting. 

 

 Going walk with Grizzlies this weekend in GNP.

 

 

 Have a great day Vern

 

[noteven]

Thanks Vern - I’ve got that #2 gas tank on board I don’t use too.

Remember how to tell grizzly scat from black bear?