jcussen Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 So if I have a regular trailer and put a 5000 lb load on it centered over the trailer axle, my tongue weight will be 2500 lbs? I have a car trailer that carries a 3000 car on a single axle like the tote and my load on the back of my truck [the hitch] is 230 lbs. Why would the tote transfer so much weight to the airstream? Half the weight is in front of the axle, and half behind the axle. Please explain why so much is transfered to the airstream. Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al F Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 7 hours ago, jcussen said: So if I have a regular trailer and put a 5000 lb load on it centered over the trailer axle, my tongue weight will be 2500 lbs? I have a car trailer that carries a 3000 car on a single axle like the tote and my load on the back of my truck [the hitch] is 230 lbs. Why would the tote transfer so much weight to the airstream? Half the weight is in front of the axle, and half behind the axle. Please explain why so much is transfered to the airstream. While I agree that with the Idaho Tote or any other swivel wheel doesn't put 50% of the weight on the towing vehicle, the REAL issue is with statements that NO weight, or at the very least no significant weight (think 1-3%) is put on the tow vehicle. For anyone thinking of using a Idaho Tote, a call to the company to find out what their loading recommendation is for safe travel would be recommended. Now, about a 3000 pound car on a trailer with ONLY 230 pounds of hitch weight. That is a dangerous setup. Unless you have 10% to 12% of the total weight of the trailer & cargo on the hitch you have a greatly increased possibility of trailer sway. Once the sway gets beyond control (which can happen quickly) both the trailer, the cargo and the tow vehicle are pretty much toast. A 3000 pound car would be on a trailer weighting probably 400-500 pounds or more, for a total weight of 3400 pounds. The tongue (hitch) weight should be from 340 to 408 pounds. The higher number would be safer. Al & Sharon 2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 2020 Chevy Colorado Toad San Antonio, TX http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orca Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 The swivel wheel has the wheels at the rear of the deck while the idaho tote have the wheels in the center of the deck. They are two different concepts. 2004 Freightliner m2 106 2015 DRV lx450 Fullhouse 2019 Indian Springfield 2014 Yamaha 950 V-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, orca said: The swivel wheel has the wheels at the rear of the deck Some swivel wheels have wheels at each corner. Yes, 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orca Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I have seen 4 wheels on the Smart Trailers but have never seen 4 wheels on a Swivel Wheel trailer. They are two different companies. 2004 Freightliner m2 106 2015 DRV lx450 Fullhouse 2019 Indian Springfield 2014 Yamaha 950 V-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Al F said: While I agree that with the Idaho Tote or any other swivel wheel doesn't put 50% of the weight on the towing vehicle, the REAL issue is with statements that NO weight, or at the very least no significant weight (think 1-3%) is put on the tow vehicle. For anyone thinking of using a Idaho Tote, a call to the company to find out what their loading recommendation is for safe travel would be recommended. Now, about a 3000 pound car on a trailer with ONLY 230 pounds of hitch weight. That is a dangerous setup. Unless you have 10% to 12% of the total weight of the trailer & cargo on the hitch you have a greatly increased possibility of trailer sway. Once the sway gets beyond control (which can happen quickly) both the trailer, the cargo and the tow vehicle are pretty much toast. A 3000 pound car would be on a trailer weighting probably 400-500 pounds or more, for a total weight of 3400 pounds. The tongue (hitch) weight should be from 340 to 408 pounds. The higher number would be safer. Agree with you that 10 to 15% of trailer weight is the recommended tongue weight, but cannot get it that high with my trailer setup. So far I have no problems towing, but I do use a heavy suv to tow. Called Idaho tote and they told me the tote connection to the airstream would be hinged, so it would be best to load it just like a regular trailer. Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, orca said: I have seen 4 wheels on the Smart Trailers but have never seen 4 wheels on a Swivel Wheel trailer. They are two different companies. Lower case swivel wheel, not upper case, as in the name of a company. I have seen a company that makes a trailer with swivel wheels on all 4 corners. The company is not Swivel Wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orca Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 3 hours ago, remoandiris said: Lower case swivel wheel, not upper case, as in the name of a company. I have seen a company that makes a trailer with swivel wheels on all 4 corners. The company is not Swivel Wheel. Smart Trailers is the trademark of Iron Men Industries is likely the the 4 wheel trailer that you are thinking of. Swivel Wheel is the trademark of Fast Master Products. 2004 Freightliner m2 106 2015 DRV lx450 Fullhouse 2019 Indian Springfield 2014 Yamaha 950 V-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly2low Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 6 hours ago, jcussen said: Agree with you that 10 to 15% of trailer weight is the recommended tongue weight, but cannot get it that high with my trailer setup. So far I have no problems towing, but I do use a heavy suv to tow. Called Idaho tote and they told me the tote connection to the airstream would be hinged, so it would be best to load it just like a regular trailer. I towed race cars for several years. I had a scale that I put into the ball of the trailer to position the car to get the weight into the 10 - 15% range. With one of the cars, I had to back it onto the trailer to get it into a position where the weight was right and the tie down angles were right. Scales is similar to this: https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/Sherline/5780.html Weight distribution/anti-sway bars are also helpful. Rich and Carol 2007 Dynamax DQ 340 XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcussen Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, fly2low said: I towed race cars for several years. I had a scale that I put into the ball of the trailer to position the car to get the weight into the 10 - 15% range. With one of the cars, I had to back it onto the trailer to get it into a position where the weight was right and the tie down angles were right. Scales is similar to this: https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/Sherline/5780.html Weight distribution/anti-sway bars are also helpful. Borrowed my buddies weight reading hitch. https://www.weigh-safe.com/product/weigh-safe-drop-hitch/ Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM 1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 The wheels on an Idaho Tote are attached to a common axle. They don’t do the swivel wheel thing. It is a steer axle. I’ve napkin designed a carrier like this that uses 2 retractable big airplane tail wheels. High speed high load tires. If and when LEO stops you’ve retracted the wheels into the underbody of the carrier just as you stop and now it’s an elegant long tail. It’s much safer because it’s not a double tow “trailer”. Just working out the details of the reinforcement kit for lip art frames ... "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Those weight reading hitches are excellent - I could have used one yesterday... "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4ord Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 I built my own motorcycle lift for my victory to ride on the back of my 5th wheel. I've used it but to get it good I need to move my trailer axles back 20". I'm curious as to what the OP ended up doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4ord Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, rm.w/aview said: Putting the front behind the back, or moving them both? In my case I need to move them both back 20". To put the front behind the back would put too much weight on the pin. Adding a third axle behind the rear axle would work very well but it would be more expensive than moving the tandems back. When I move the axles back I will build a sub frame to lift the trailer up a few inches as a secondary goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 8/27/2018 at 2:37 PM, fly2low said: and talk to Airstream. That's the foremost item to investigate, strength of Airstream's construction. Personally, I seriously doubt any TT is constructed to withstand the stress's involved; 1000# bouncing on the back of a TT could go as high as 3000# when encountering a large pothole. It would be a wreck waiting to happen. 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynosback Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 8 hours ago, rm.w/aview said: Recent views of the costs of toy haulers at an RV Show vs the value of your Airstream as a trade may have possibilities. I thought the same thing. A toy hauler would be a great solution. It could carry the two motorcycles and bicycles with no issue. This would would cost more then attaching something to there trailer. But you have to ask what is your and the people’s safety around you worth? It would be a TON cheaper to keep the airstream and buy a toy hauler vs not doing it safely and causing a massive wreck and legally would cost you a lot more. “We are able to carry another motorcycle, bicycles, and kayaks in the bed of the pickup, but, alas, there is no room for the Harley Electroglide. This would be a much less expensive solution to upgrading to a toy hauler.” 2015 Ram 3500 RC DRW CTD AISIN 410 rear 2016 Mobile Suites 38RSB3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Wanderer Posted January 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 This has been a great discussion. We decided to sell the Airstream and just purchased a toy hauler. Thanks for all your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 8/29/2018 at 12:29 AM, jcussen said: So if I have a regular trailer and put a 5000 lb load on it centered over the trailer axle, my tongue weight will be 2500 lbs? I have a car trailer that carries a 3000 car on a single axle like the tote and my load on the back of my truck [the hitch] is 230 lbs. Why would the tote transfer so much weight to the airstream? Half the weight is in front of the axle, and half behind the axle. Please explain why so much is transfered to the airstream. Happy wander, I'm sure you made the correct decision, I hope you both make wonderful memories together. jcussen --Trailer axles are not placed in the center of the frame, normal spacing is 60/40, with tandem axles the ratio is measured from the center of the axles, with 60% to the front. there are exceptions to the 60/40 rule, one is toy haulers, which are designed to carry heavy cargo behind the axles, which are set further back on the frame per RV mfgrs calculations. 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al F Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 8:47 AM, 4x4ord said: I built my own motorcycle lift for my victory to ride on the back of my 5th wheel. I've used it but to get it good I need to move my trailer axles back 20". I'm curious as to what the OP ended up doing? Just a thought....Did you check the GVWR for your trailer? Many or most 5th wheels CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) are not very large. When you put in all your clothes, food, tools, fill the fridge and etc, most weekenders or vacationers put in 1000-1500 pounds of stuff in the trailer. Then you add the the 8.3 pounds per gallon water to that for your fresh water tank, water heater tank and whatever winds up in your gray & black tanks. Adding the 1000-1500 pounds of lift and motorcycle could put you way over what the trailer was built to handle. Also hanging that weight off the back end put even more stress on the frame. Al & Sharon 2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 2020 Chevy Colorado Toad San Antonio, TX http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4ord Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 With the bike loaded I'm only slightly over the GVWR of the trailer and well within the axle rating. The frame on this particular trailer is very strong (18" deep frame rails) so I'm not worried about the frame strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynosback Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 hours ago, 4x4ord said: With the bike loaded I'm only slightly over the GVWR of the trailer and well within the axle rating. The frame on this particular trailer is very strong (18" deep frame rails) so I'm not worried about the frame strength. This says it all. What do engineers know.... Things have limits for a reason. The weight police 😊 2015 Ram 3500 RC DRW CTD AISIN 410 rear 2016 Mobile Suites 38RSB3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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