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Phil Saran

Yamaha 2000 Generator vs Honda 2000 Generator??

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8 hours ago, JRP said:

A matter of personal preference and how you may use the two units when they are not paralleled.  I always preferred and used the external 30 amp plug adapter with 2 standard units, not the companion.  I frequently used both my individual units separately as a source of 120vac 15amp outlets or 12vdc battery charging.

If you get the companion with the builtin 30amp socket, you give up one of the 120vac outlets and the 12vdc charger outlet, in  that model. If you're going to frequently use the units separately just for 120 vac 15 amp needs and/or battery charging, you're better off with 2 standard units and the external 30amp adapter plug.  But if 99% of your use will be 2 units in parallel for 30amp service, then yes it makes sense to get the builtin 30amp.  (I'm speaking of the eu2000i models, I don't know anything about the newer 2200 model)

Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't run in parallel that often and alternate gensets for equal hour runtime.

Edited by Yarome

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7 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

When you can only get 13.3 amps, as per your photo, it's a moot point. 

16.7~ish at max output. But yeah... from the picture it would "appear" to be limited to 13.3a.

I got the impression the poster may have simply been referring to the plug type.. not the actual output of the outlets located on the genset... or it's capability (?) 

Edited by Yarome

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6 hours ago, Phil Saran said:

I was at Costco last week and they have the Yamaha ES2000 gas generator for sale for about $500 each

If it was the $500 "Yamaha" I've seen at Costco... they are NOT.... repeat NOT Yamaha generators. They are A-Ipower gensets "powered by Yamaha" engines and made to ressemble Yamaha's. The engine is not the same one used in actual Yamaha gensets and it's really the electronics and governor that make up the greater majority of what makes a great genset great.

Don't be fooled by knock-offs. This is likely what you saw at Costco.

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One point to consider when choosing between duals in parallel and a single, larger capacity, genset is that running in parallel will limit output to the combined continuous output of each portable where a single unit will have the full max output available.

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5 hours ago, Yarome said:

If it was the $500 "Yamaha" I've seen at Costco... they are NOT.... repeat NOT Yamaha generators.

I would bet that Yarome is correct as I too have seen the COSTCO generators for $449. There are several important things to consider before you spend that money. Note that the running rating is only 1600 watts, and not 2000. Noise level is 65 db while the others are about 10 db less. 

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18 hours ago, RV_ said:

My question is which is cheapest/easiest to tie together to tie two together to run the "honking big A/C units?" I see myself part-timing and not needing A/C every trip. For the cooler trips I'd then just take one with me, leaving the other at the house.  Yes I could buy a large one, but prefer lighter weight.

Sporadic generator use vs generator dependency and the ability for parallel hook up had me look at Champion, and in doing so noticed that the parallel accessory has the 30A outlet leaving the two generators with their full array of 20A available unlike the previously noted Honda. Also noticed price differences among sellers for the generators and for the parallel kit. Stackable generators with a fastened 30A kit looks pretty trick. Their 50A kit also has a 30A outlet. Honking big A/C units have been put on notice.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that all the specs on generators are established AT SEA LEVEL.  The higher up you go, the thinner the air gets, and the less power a non-supercharged engine can produce.  I think the rule of thumb is 3% less power for every thousand feet of elevation.  So at around 3,300 feet, you are down 10% in both horsepower and electrical power.

A generator that is capable of just barely  running an a/c at sea level might be completely incapable of running that same a/c at Denver.

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Good point and it's with this in mind that I'll knock off 25% of the listed capabilities of generators to obtain personal working numbers.

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1 hour ago, Optimistic Paranoid said:

Another thing to keep in mind is that all the specs on generators are established AT SEA LEVEL.  The higher up you go, the thinner the air gets, and the less power a non-supercharged engine can produce.  I think the rule of thumb is 3% less power for every thousand feet of elevation.  So at around 3,300 feet, you are down 10% in both horsepower and electrical power.

A generator that is capable of just barely  running an a/c at sea level might be completely incapable of running that same a/c at Denver.

Loss of power is not the only affect of high altitude operation. This is from the Champion user's manual.

Quote

Operation at High Altitude The density of air at high altitude is lower than at sea level. Engine power is reduced as the air mass and airfuel ratio decrease. Engine power and generator output will be reduced approximately 3½% for every 1000 feet of elevation above sea level. This is a natural trend and cannot be changed by adjusting the engine. At high altitudes increased exhaust emissions can also result due to the increased enrichment of the air fuel ratio. Other high altitude issues can include hard starting, increased fuel consumption and spark plug fouling. To alleviate high altitude issues other than the natural power loss, Champion Power Equipment can provide a high altitude carburetor main jet. The alternative main jet and installation instructions can be obtained by contacting Customer Support.  

From the Honda manual:

Quote

HIGH ALTITUDE OPERATION

At high altitude, the standard carburetor air/fuel mixture will be too rich. Performance will decrease, and fuel consumption will increase. A very rich mixture will also foul the spark plug and cause hard starting. Operation at an altitude that differs from that at which this engine was certified, for extended periods of time, may increase emissions. High altitude performance can be improved by specific modifications to the carburetor. If you always operate your generator at altitudes above 5,000 feet (1,500 meters), have your servicing dealer perform this carburetor modification. This engine, when operated at high altitude with the carburetor modifications for high altitude use, will meet each emission standard throughout its useful life. Even with carburetor modification, engine horsepower will decrease about 3.5% for each 1,000-foot (300-meter) increase in altitude. The effect of altitude on horsepower will be greater than this if no carburetor modification is made. When the carburetor has been modified for high altitude operation, the air/fuel mixture will be too lean for low altitude use. Operation at altitudes below 5,000 feet (1,500 meters) with a modified carburetor may cause the engine to overheat and result in serious engine damage. For use at low altitudes, have your servicing dealer return the carburetor to original factory specifications.

 

From the RV Tech Library:

Quote

The Onan Marquis Gold series of generators uses carburetors. These gensets do have an altitude compensation adjustment on the carburetor. By dialing in a higher altitude you will lean out the mixture to prevent spark plug fouling and excessive smoke. It is very important that you also dial it back when descending to lower altitudes or else the engine will run lean and you will burn the engine's valves.

We had a 2004 Class C with an Onan 2800 genset. Spent a  lot of time at over 7000' and the carburetor adjustment seemed to work very well. With our current Yamaha 2400, I have learned to always keep some spare spark plugs.

 

Edited by trailertraveler

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2 minutes ago, trailertraveler said:

From the RV Tech Library:

Quote

The Onan Marquis Gold series of generators uses carburetors. These gensets do have an altitude compensation adjustment on the carburetor. By dialing in a higher altitude you will lean out the mixture to prevent spark plug fouling and excessive smoke. It is very important that you also dial it back when descending to lower altitudes or else the engine will run lean and you will burn the engine's valves

I'll go along with what the RV Tech Library says, but on our Onan Marquis Gold 7000 that adjustment knob on the carb does absolutely nothing. Had 2 carbs on the POS and the same with both. It doesn't matter if it is at sea level in Yuma, AZ. or 6800' around Ely, NV. or West Yellowstone, MT.

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Both Honda and Yamaha have "jet" kits available for operation at high altitude for around $9-$10. Honda tech manuals state that the jet kit is not required below 7500ft. It may improve performance between 5k and 7.5k, but is listed for operation 7500ft and above.

Having measured output at different elevations on my Yamaha... the 3% per 1000ft of elevation did not hold true.  It may be for Champions or may be mathmatically correct, and I don't know if there is some electronic wizardry going on, but in actual use there was less than 1.25% drop in output at 4600ft (Yamaha 2000).

Both the Honda and Yamaha have a parallel cable/socket option. While Yamaha doesn't offer a "companion" equivelant, it is not required for running Honda's in parallel either. It's simply a convenience and a bit of a money saver to use a standard/companion Honda set.

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I'm also looking at some of the inexpensive models, some of which have high ratings over time. I can't abide a loud genset, so an inverter unit or an inverter/set is going to be my choice. I think I might have to make it a single unit that can run the A/C, Scamp recommends a 3000 watt genset for any of their A/C units equipped trailers, and 2000 for non air conditioned units. That is for the future in any event. Thanks for the great thread.

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On 8/18/2018 at 10:06 PM, noteven said:

A motor starter like Micro-Air manufactures is said to allow a single 2000 watt gen run a 13,500btu rv ac unit.

I went the micro-air route and my  Yamaha (and I have also tried a Honda) will only start the compressor about once every 5-6 times so not a silver bullet.

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1 hour ago, jpcoll01 said:

I went the micro-air route and my  Yamaha (and I have also tried a Honda) will only start the compressor about once every 5-6 times so not a silver bullet.

My Honda 2000 will start my Penguin 2 with micro-air easy start every time,  but won't do it if in eco-mode.

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Also, the $500 Costco Gen isn't a Yamaha it is "Powered by Yamaha" which means a Yamaha engine, the electronics are likely made by whatever off-brand manufacturer it is. Not saying it isn't a good gen, but it isn't a Yamaha.

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20 hours ago, RV_ said:

I'm also looking at some of the inexpensive models, some of which have high ratings over time. I can't abide a loud genset, so an inverter unit or an inverter/set is going to be my choice. I think I might have to make it a single unit that can run the A/C, Scamp recommends a 3000 watt genset for any of their A/C units equipped trailers, and 2000 for non air conditioned units. That is for the future in any event. Thanks for the great thread.

Refer to previous post, neglected to quote to refer to your post specifically 🙄

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Don't limit your horizons, check out the Boliy gensets lineup. They have a continous output of 3,000W, if you read the specs they outdo both Honda and Yamaha gensets of comparable weight, and electric remote start is an option. I bought one in 2008, it's still running fine although we sold our 5er in 2013, and now it's relegated to home backup duty.

I performed an at-home test and it ran a 15,500btu air conditioner and convection microwave at the same time, or that air conditioner and the 2nd 13,500btu air conditioner at the same time.

Everything electrical is user replaceable -plug N play. I have no idea the # of hours on my genset, however I have ran it powering our house until the tank rand dry, refilled tank and repeated that for a week without a hiccup from the genset. The carb has a drain screw in the bowl bottom to completely drain it W/hose directing draining gas outside the enclosure. Download the service manual for complete information.

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