TPMS, or not

[rickeieio]

As mentioned in another thread, I lost three tires at once yesterday.  I have a TPMS, ( tire pressure monitor system), but it's inoperative due to low batteries in the wheel sensors.  All tires had proper pressures, verified by gauge, prior to the start of the trip, which was three hundred miles.  Pressure had held for over two years prior, so no slow leaks.

If you have the system, why not spring for new batteries?  Because I need 8 of them at $49 each, so maybe I should change to a system where the batteries can be changed rather than buying new sending units.  Meanwhile......

In looking over the carnage, I noticed only the middle tire, which blew first, had the sensor.  The flying debris had caught the other two sensors and ripped out the valve stems, causing air loss.

It makes sense that a TPMS doesn't report a blowout until after the event. Had I just pitched all the sensors, I perhaps would have only had to buy one tire, not three.

I won't be buying batteries, wheel sensors, or any other tire monitoring gadgets, other than for my IR heat sensor gun, which lives in the door pocket of the truck.  YMMV.....

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

We used PressurePro for the truck, trailer, and car so at 7.5 years, we preemptively changed out 16 sensors (we do spares too).  When we changed out the sensors, we got new technology including a much better stem seal.

We had a tread separation and the TPMS didn't have a pressure loss until after the thread was gone and the carcass blew.  There is no magic in the foretelling of thread separation.

I wouldn't screw with replaceable battery sensors that are prone to O-ring issues.

[Jim & Wilma]

2 hours ago, rickeieio said:

As mentioned in another thread, I lost three tires at once yesterday. 

Unbelievable!  I can get pretty creative on failure modes and spent a good part of my career analyzing system failures, but would never have come up with this one. Thankfully you are ok and only short a bit of time and money.

Mark, we use the TST 507 system and with 12 installed sensors and a couple spares it takes a bit of time to replace the batteries. Button batteries are pretty cheap and definitely need to replace the O-rings and we use a silicon grease on the cap threads. Have had no problems . . . yet. 

[Hot Rod]

What kind of valve stems were you using?  The first TST system I had years ago recommended rigid bolt in valve stems as opposed to the pop in rubber variety.  I don't see it in the instructions on my current unit (flow through, replaceable batteries), but still a good idea.  If you were using rubber stems the rigid ones may have helped on the other two tires.  That's the only thing I don't like about the flow through sensors, they stick out more than I am comfortable with. 

I stock those bolt in stems (I'm a wheel dealer), if anybody needs some shoot me a message and I'll mail them out no charge.

[edatlanta]

11 hours ago, Jim & Wilma said:

Unbelievable!  I can get pretty creative on failure modes and spent a good part of my career analyzing system failures, but would never have come up with this one. Thankfully you are ok and only short a bit of time and money.

Mark, we use the TST 507 system and with 12 installed sensors and a couple spares it takes a bit of time to replace the batteries. Button batteries are pretty cheap and definitely need to replace the O-rings and we use a silicon grease on the cap threads. Have had no problems . . . yet. 

I have the 507 system with the original sensors, non flow through, and in 8 years of full time use I have had one sensor fail (8 sensors in service).  I had a two pack of spares so I was back up and running in the time it took to program the monitor for the new sensor which isn't long.  No other issues in 8 years and I do change batteries when the monitor reports which sensor is due.  I do have the original black/white monitor and an upgrade to the new color one would be nice, but definitely not necessary.

[rickeieio]

I use nothing but bolt in stems, except on a couple of pieces of farm machinery (nitrogen fertilizer eats brass). Also, not flow through sensors.

Hot Rod, I for sure need one wheel, and may be coming your way next week, on the way to a motorcycle rally in PA. If I remember correctly, you're in NE Ohio?

[Brad & Jacolyn]

I also have the 507 system with 10 sensors. Just installed it a couple of months ago and it works great. I purchased the set from Technorv and the price was pretty good. I had an old Tiretraker that got unreliable after 7 years. I got in the habit of changing the batteries every year but it could have just been the sensors. The batteries are CHEAP and easy to change.

Brad

[rickeieio]

Does anyone make a system where the sensors are inside the wheel, like newer passenger vehicles?  

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

Yes but when the batteries  need replacement, it is as issue of discounting the tires, just like a car after several years, like in the timeframe of PressurePro sensors.

Quite a,while ago their was a system that mounted on a band on the rim.  It did honest wheel temperature sensing.  To install, the tires had to.come off a d it was not uncommon for the sensor to be damaged during a ride replacement.

 

[Chad Heiser]

1 hour ago, rickeieio said:

Does anyone make a system where the sensors are inside the wheel, like newer passenger vehicles?  

TST has sensors that mount inside the wheel (like OEM type sensors).  I have thought about switching to that type, but don't really want to put out the extra money to replace existing, working sensors.

[Hot Rod]

11 hours ago, rickeieio said:

I use nothing but bolt in stems, except on a couple of pieces of farm machinery (nitrogen fertilizer eats brass). Also, not flow through sensors.

Hot Rod, I for sure need one wheel, and may be coming your way next week, on the way to a motorcycle rally in PA. If I remember correctly, you're in NE Ohio?

I am in NE Ohio.  Sorry, we don't sell trailer wheels though.  At least nothing heavy enough for a fifth wheel.  Hot rods and 4x4 trucks mostly.  I was just offering the stems since I stock that type and they are really cheap by the case...

Not sure exactly what wheel you need, but www.trailertiresandwheels.com is NW Ohio not too far off the turnpike.  I have no connection with them other than meeting them at a show.  I know they stock a lot of heavy duty wheels/tires for trailers and have a good rep in the RV community.  They do a lot of 17.5 upgrades.  Hope that helps.

[rickeieio]

Thanks Hot rod.  I already have a wide safety margin with 6 load range E 16" tires.  I only need one wheel.

[Hewhoknowslittle]

5 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

TST has sensors that mount inside the wheel (like OEM type sensors).  I have thought about switching to that type, but don't really want to put out the extra money to replace existing, working sensors.

I have the TST system with the internal pressure sensors on the Freightliner and my 3 axle DRV, I was having theft issues with the stem sensors, and I do like the new sensors, I put them on during tire change, and they should last till the next tire change, so no issues there, and TST will send you the sensors and give you time to replace them when it's time for the battery to be replaced.

[lockmup68]

15 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Thanks Hot rod.  I already have a wide safety margin with 6 load range E 16" tires.  I only need one wheel.

IMO, moving to 17.5" rims and tires is your first step to really solving the issue. On all the trailers I've had over the years, getting rid of 16" rims was the best move I've ever made for eliminating blowouts. I got the Hi-spec HD rims from trailertireandwheels.com and Hercules H-902s is 6,840 per tire, which is 13,680 lbs per axle. Yes, huge safety margin per axle. I know way, way, way overkill, but the tires were much cheaper than the 16" goodyears G-114s or similar, so I figured safety factor was a bonus. I got them for $185 each shipped at the time about 1.5 years ago. My OTR friends say hercules is a great commercial tire and so far I have been impressed. They have been on 1.5 years and on pre-trip last Monday, they are still at 125 lbs. I have about 20k miles on them so far. Wear is great and ride is good. 

Load range E tires are 3,640 lbs per tire or 7,280 per axle. Don't know what your axle ratings/weights are, but for most trailers, you are right at max capacity for those tires all the time, which contributes to tire failure in my non-expert, non-educated, redneck opinion. With all the 16" load range E, F, G tires I ran over the years and the many, many tire failures on flatbed trailers, always during a wheelin' trip, I finally moved to 17.5s and knock on wood, have not had a failure yet. Buddies who tow dozers and backhoes/shovels educated me on trailer tires a few years ago after I had another 16" blowout on a wheeling trip to PA. YMMV and just my dumb opinion, that doesn't have any weight to it anyway!

 

[rickeieio]

You're preaching to the choir.

 I had 17.5 wheels/tires on the last trailer.  It needed them.  This trailer carries about 16k on the axles.    16,000/6 tires is 2,666, or 25% margin, if I'm running load range E, which is NOT the long range plan.  I have 4 of the heavier 16" wheels (yes, they are rated for the higher pressures), and will convert to all load range G on the toy hauler, giving me even more margin, and putting the "E" tires on another trailer.

[DJohns]

I am with lockmup68 in regards to overkill.  I have lt215/75-17.5 h rated on my fifth. When I come of the road on a 95 degree day the tires are not burning hot. That translates into less chance of blowout. I don't care what the numbers say but if your tires are steaming hot your past the limit.  Why are the hurculese tires so much less in price than the goodyear. Sounds to good to be true.

[rickeieio]

If I were tandem, I'd go with 17.5 in a heartbeat.  Been there on the old trailer.  But with load range G @ roughly 4k rating per tire, times 6 tires = 24k# for a 16K load.  

Where do you stop?

My tire failure was a sudden event.  One tire blew, for an unknown reason, and took the valve stems off the other two.

BTW, my trailer tires run cooler than the tires on the truck.  I check at most stops, and did so two days ago to verify.

[Scrap]

Quote

Where do you stop?

Just after the last grain bin is empty and the credit card won't approve another cent, of course! 😉

[Hewhoknowslittle]

I have 17.5 tires on every trailer I own except the one that’s got a 12 inch tires on it. That being said I do it so all my trailer tires are the same size one spare fits all nine trailers one spare tire, but I wouldn’t put anything on my camper but 17.5 tires over Kill is your friend.

Roger

[rickeieio]

That would be pretty sweet to have so many tires the same size.  Unfortunately my trailer tires range from 9" to 24.5".  Heaviest rated trailer (25 ton drop deck )  has 15".

In my towing, over 45 years, I've needed a spare for the trailer maybe 6 times.  Twice, I needed more than one, and both of those, it was a sudden failure that took out additional tires. Every trailer tire failure I've had has been on an RV. (Pop up and fifth wheel)

Having a large safety margin is crucial.  36% would seem like plenty (where I will be with the load range G).

 

[Jack Mayer]

On 8/2/2018 at 6:42 PM, Chad Heiser said:

TST has sensors that mount inside the wheel (like OEM type sensors).  I have thought about switching to that type, but don't really want to put out the extra money to replace existing, working sensors.

I'm probably going to put those on our new coach. But I will leave the truck with the external sensors. Don't ask me why, because there is no logical explanation. Just what I "feel like". It is relatively easy for me to mess with this stuff since we are dealers.

[noteven]

I’m running six Bridgestone R250 16” moccasins carrying 14,000lbs. Speed rated at 99mph. I have a time getting the toyhauler going that fast. They run cool. They are “commercial” truck tires and have heavy curbing protection on the sidewalls. Not that I would need that 🤭

 

[rickeieio]

2 hours ago, noteven said:

Speed rated at 99mph. I have a time getting the toyhauler going that fast.

Pedal harder.

[rickeieio]

On 8/4/2018 at 12:57 PM, Scrap said:

Just after the last grain bin is empty and the credit card won't approve another cent, of course! 😉

For sure.  As I ease into retirement, empty grain bins take on a new meaning.

[Parrformance]

I have begun running super short valve stems on my jeep and trailers.

Just a thought.

On Amazon;

eBoot Black TR-412 Rubber Snap-in Valve Stems Tire Valve Stems Tyre Valve Stems, 12 Pack