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jlc1988

Getting hot going over mountains

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2 minutes ago, mptjelgin said:

I don't know of a single engine manufacturer that recommends pure water in lieu of an anti-freeze mixture. Including Chrysler...

A few other sources of the same information:

NAPA Know How Blog                                      Hot Rod magazine                          Community Car Talk

Stack Exchange                                            CGI Radiator                                Practical Motoring

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1 hour ago, mptjelgin said:

I've heard this claim before, and often the comparison is between pure water and pure (100%) anti-freeze.  I think that everyone agrees that 100% anti-freeze is a bad idea. But the recommended 50/50 mix of water and anti-freeze not only lowers the freezing point and raises the boiling point, but provides much needed anti-corrosion properties and (in diesel engine) cavitation protection. 

I don't know of a single engine manufacturer that recommends pure water in lieu of an anti-freeze mixture. Including Chrysler...

Pure antifreeze will not work alone. I was just making rhe comment that water has better cooling properties than what it sounds like on a jug of antifreeze. Go back and read my comment you will see the corrosion comment (distilled water) an a water pump lubticant needed. Since anti freeze doesn't like to evaparate (cooling process) try poring some on yourself on a hot day. I'll take water. Everybody have a cool day.

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The part of your comment stating "" Biggest Lie" is calling anti freeze a coolant. Any engine will run cooler with water." was what caught my attention. 

Of course anti-freeze is a coolant. When mixed 50/50 with water it is an excellent coolant. What else would you call it? You labeling it the "Biggest Lie" and stating that any engine will run cooler with water is pretty provocative.

While strictly speaking, pure water has a higher specific heat capacity than a 50/50 anti-freeze mix, and that "should" make it a more efficient coolant. But an engine cooling system is just that, a system. The coolant is only one part of it, and if you decide to run pure water you're inviting damage to that system over a pretty short term. 

You did mention adding a water pump lubricant, and by doing so you've addressed one other issue which is lubrication. That may or may not also address corrosion, and it certainly impacts the specific heat capacity of "pure water" that I've just discussed. 

Bottom line is that advocating pure water with a "water pump lubricant" will likely not solve the "Getting Hot" issue that the OP originally posted about, and may very likely lead to long-term problems with the engine. It will certainly lead to immediate problems if OP encounters freezing weather!!!

And BTW, how quickly a liquid evaporates has little to do with it's value as a coolant inside of a closed, recirculating system where the entire idea is to not evaporate (boil) the coolant. Alcohol evaporates very quickly, but has a much lower specific heat capacity than either water or ethylene glycol. Think it would make a good coolant?

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13 hours ago, beemergary said:

Son has a 5 yr. engineer degree from Kettering University former GMI. Works in the heating and cooling division at Chrysler Engineering. Before that did an intership with a company that designs automotive heating and cooling radiators-condensors. Tests vehicles at Death Valley and over the continential divide for Chrysler. Didn't work for only a couple days at his intership and called his mother saying Dad was right about water cooling better than anti freeze. Your radiator cap will raise the boiling point. To be old and wise had to be dumb and stupid

Obviously he is one that shouldn't have passed freshman chemistry.   Yes, the cap raises the boiling point (as does a pressure cooker), but the colligative properties of a mixture also raise the boiling point - - so using a combination gets a higher boiling point at a lower pressure.   But hey, if you want to run with just distilled water in your radiator, be my guest.  Just don't expect Chrysler to honor a warranty claim made when radiator goes with just distilled water in it.

BTW - when you mentioned adding a water pump lubricant to the water, you have created a mixture, which will have colligative properties, as is outlined above.  

Edited by Barbaraok

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On 8/13/2018 at 10:11 PM, beemergary said:

Wow  Lots of good info. Don't use good for nothing cruise. Don't lug or over rev. Just find the lowest rpm sweet spot where you can gain alittle speed. I have to run electric fans on my high perfornce street strip cars as a back up. " Biggest Lie" is calling anti freeze a coolant. Any engine will run cooler with water. Distilled water (non corrosive) and a lubricant for the water pump. Look and see if some deflectors can be made to direct more air to radiator. Good luck

Distilled or deionized water will leach-ions out of metal, which weakens it, and actually is a form of corrosion. Barbaraok correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Edited by Ray,IN

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9 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

Distilled or deionized water will leach-ions out of metal, which weakens it, and actually is a form of corrosion.

I am not the chemist that BarbOK is, but I do know that most antifreeze manufacturers suggest using distilled water to mix with their products to get the 50%/50% mix in your radiator. 

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If you run a diesel engine, the properties of the engine coolant far exceed just managing heat.  The coolant mixture is incredible important to protecting the engine.  Because of that, I never used "anti-freeze" that needed to be mixed.  I only purchased pre-mixed coolant that I knew was the proper mix and type.

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OMG!  Does it really matter if straight distilled water would actually cool an engine better than the generally recommended 50/50 mix?  No one is going to drain and flush their modern day cooling system and fill it with distilled water anyway, right beemergary?  So why even start a debate about it and then continue?  None of this is really helpful to the original poster.

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1 hour ago, FL-JOE said:

OMG!  Does it really matter if straight distilled water would actually cool an engine better than the generally recommended 50/50 mix?  No one is going to drain and flush their modern day cooling system and fill it with distilled water anyway, right beemergary?  So why even start a debate about it and then continue?  None of this is really helpful to the original poster.

It just bugs me that that a jug of anti freeze makes one think your engine will run cooler with it. Wish I didn't make that comment-brought out some self rightious people who end up out in a left field. I did make constructive comments to poster. Have a nice day. 

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Back on subject. A lower radiator hose may look fine but over time gets weak and will collapse under load and heat restricting coolant flow. Yours may have a spring in it or may not. One more thing to check.

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30 minutes ago, beemergary said:

It just bugs me that that a jug of anti freeze makes one think your engine will run cooler with it. Wish I didn't make that comment-brought out some self rightious people who end up out in a left field. I did make constructive comments to poster. Have a nice day. 

Your lack of understanding of what a coolant does, and that you passed it on to your son, is what should concern you.  It is all about the capacity of the fluid to conduct heat away from the engine, while not 'chewing' up the inside of the piping in the process.    

Hopefully the OP has a list of things to check including the proper coolant for the system and that all of the parts fit and do their jobs.

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4 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

OMG!  Does it really matter if straight distilled water would actually cool an engine better than the generally recommended 50/50 mix?  No one is going to drain and flush their modern day cooling system and fill it with distilled water anyway, right beemergary?  So why even start a debate about it and then continue?  None of this is really helpful to the original poster.

Not to mention distilled water will cease being pure H2O and will become a solution containing minerals and other contaminants soon as it touches the iron inside the engine.

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2 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Your lack of understanding of what a coolant does, and that you passed it on to your son, is what should concern you.  It is all about the capacity of the fluid to conduct heat away from the engine, while not 'chewing' up the inside of the piping in the process.    

Hopefully the OP has a list of things to check including the proper coolant for the system and that all of the parts fit and do their jobs.

Read my comment. After getting a job at a heating and cooling engineering facility (I think Valeo was the name in Auburn Hills, Mi.) He called and said what I always said about water vs anti freeze. Have been dealing with heat transfer for years running a Pontiac 421 super duty in a 61 Tempest which came with a 4 cyl. radiator. Reproduced a factory radiator in aluminum with 2-1" coolant tubes. Did a modification to water pump to help eliminate cavitation. I do use a corrosion additive in summer before switching back to 50/50 in winter. I also have a 63 Pontiac tempest with same engine that I race and you don't want to be caught using ant freeze on a race track. Having a radiator hose to high above a radiator will hold air causing cooling problems.

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On 8/16/2018 at 10:50 AM, Barbaraok said:

Your lack of understanding of what a coolant does, and that you passed it on to your son, is what should concern you.

And they say I am an ass on the forum. ding ding ding...You win!!

 

As much as I really hate agreeing with FL-JOE, who cares and how is this helping the OP? 

Edited by Big5er

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Incorrect information needs to be highlighted so that someone doesn’t actually try running with just distilled water.  BTW, beemergary was actually making up a ‘coolant mixture, he just didn’t  know it.  

And I could never outdo you, wouldn’t think of trying!😎

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Ok back to what will help the OP. Yes doing maintenance on the cooling system will help. After you do the last flush with distilled water to get an accurate 50/50 mix I recommend using full strength antifreeze. What you do is find out what the total capacity is and put 50% full strength then fill it the rest  of the way with distilled water. This will allow for the water you can't drain out of the system. I would look at a high flow thermostat and a heavy duty fan clutch. There are also hi flow water pumps available for the 460.

 jlc1988, do you have a fans on your oil cooler? You might upgrade to a bigger transmission cooler. One outher thing check your timing.

Bill

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On 8/16/2018 at 7:36 AM, Kirk Wood said:

I am not the chemist that BarbOK is, but I do know that most antifreeze manufacturers suggest using distilled water to mix with their products to get the 50%/50% mix in your radiator. 

Good catch! The mixture of water and  ethylene glycol is used because straight ethylene glycol doe not have enough ability to transfer heat as does a solution of water and ethylene glycol, The only reason most ethylene glycol mfgrs. say to use distilled water is explained in that linked article; chlorine in city water is corrosive. Since mixtures/solutions greater than 50/50 reduce cooling capacity, and few live where temperatures where -30°F are reached, it's counterproductive to use more than 50% ethylene glycol.

If anyone wishes to increase their coolant mixtures ability, this product is the additive  recommended: Water Wetter https://www.redlineoil.com/waterwetter-coolant-additives  

This discussion forum for mechanic /w pictures, about running straight water vs a solution of water and anti-freeze may be enlightening for some folks.

Edited by Ray,IN

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I put a water mist system in front of the radiator on my Duramax. I just put a switch in the dash and turned it on when temp when up. I haven't gotten the amount of cooling others claim but I did get some. Easy to do on a RV all you need is a solenoid valve. Google it to see what others did. I think I need more tips on mine.

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I'd use distilled water in a mister system, otherwise you're likely to get mineral buildup on the radiator as the water evaporates (which is what creates the extra cooling).  Also note that, like a swamp cooler, you'll get more cooling in the dry desert air than in the humid southern states.

Distilled water is 88 cents a gallon at Walmart.

Edited by Lou Schneider

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1 hour ago, Lou Schneider said:

I'd use distilled water in a mister system, otherwise you're likely to get mineral buildup on the radiator as the water evaporates (which is what creates the extra cooling).  Also note that, like a swamp cooler, you'll get more cooling in the dry desert air than in the humid southern states.

Distilled water is 88 cents a gallon at Walmart.

Yes and the nozzles need to point out the front not back onto the radiator. However I have used mine for 4 or 5 years and have put dozens of gallons of tap water through it with no mineral build up. But that may depend on the water you have.

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