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docj

Why can't DP owners learn the basics

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For the second time in a week, I can't sit outside my MH tonight because my new neighbor is idling his DP long, long after he finished hooking up his utilities.  I really wish  that people who buy a MH would learn something about using it properly.  Both Cummins and CAT make it clear that by the time you've pulled off the highway your engine has already cooled enough to the point where you can safely turn it off.  Continuing to idle it doesn't make things any better and, in fact, extended slow idling of diesels isn't good for them (that's why they have fast idle settings, but the same uniformed owners probably don't know they have that either!)

Sorry for the rant, but DP owners get enough of a bad rap for driving such "expensive" machines (regardless of how old they are) that they don't need additional criticism for something avoidable like excessive idling.  Does anyone want to bet how long my neighbor will let his diesel idle before he leaves?  

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Maybe you could discuss it with him/her in a questioning manner. 

Something along the lines of "hey, I noticed you idled your engine quite awhile after you were setup.  Is that to help it or something?  I have don't do that and am wondering if I am hurting my my engine." 

That puts the situation into a helping relationship instead of a confrontational one.  Then maybe you can actually educate the owner that the long idle is not necessary.

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17 minutes ago, chindog said:

I'm guessing until he gets his jacks down and slides out.

His slides and jacks, hoses and power cord have been out for ~20 minutes at this point.

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16 minutes ago, remoandiris said:

Maybe you could discuss it with him/her in a questioning manner. 

Something along the lines of "hey, I noticed you idled your engine quite awhile after you were setup.  Is that to help it or something?  I have don't do that and am wondering if I am hurting my my engine." 

That puts the situation into a helping relationship instead of a confrontational one.  Then maybe you can actually educate the owner that the long idle is not necessary.

Quite honestly, I'm past the point of caring about educating people I am unlikely to encounter again.  Life is too short to get into discussions with people who are no doubt convinced that what they are doing is correct because their sister's boyfriend's brother heard it from a guy who used to work at a garage somewhere! 😁

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I leave mine running long enough when I arrive to get he levelers down and the slides out. When I leave I need to have it running to get the slides in and the suspension aired up then I'm gone. 20 minutes is a bit excessive.

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49 minutes ago, Ranger Smith said:

I leave mine running long enough when I arrive to get he levelers down and the slides out.

If yours is like most MH's one or both of these functions requires the ignition to be on, but I doubt either one necessitates the engine running.  Didn't you turn off the engine when you went into the office to register?  If so why does it need to at your site once you get to your site?

This link points to a CAT paper on reducing idle time to save money.  Notice the comments about engine shutdown--"Limit idle time at shutoff. Older engines need 2 minutes, newer engines 
almost none."

Costs of excess idling

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1 hour ago, docj said:

 

Well said. 

 

 

Quite honestly, I'm past the point of caring about educating people I am unlikely to encounter again.  Life is too short to get into discussions with people who are no doubt convinced that what they are doing is correct because their sister's boyfriend's brother heard it from a guy who used to work at a garage somewhere! 😁

 

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Per my owners manual, I keep the engine running while leveling and extending the slides. 

By keeping the engine running you are keeping the battery voltage up which reduced the current (and resulting heat) required to run the hydraulic pump.  This reduced wear and tear on the pump.  If you had weak batteries and did not keep the engine running, pump current could very easily become excessive and result in premature pump failure.

Regardless, it only takes five minutes at most to get things level and slides out.

Lenp

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Leap, sounds like you need more batteries.  Pull/back in, make sure you are in the spot you want, THEN SHUT DOWN.  Plug in, the get water attached, put out sewer, if needed, by this time you should be on float, then level and extend slides (or extend slides/level is you have a Monaco IIRC).  No need for the engine to be running.   

When we leave, we get everything stowed, pull in slides, then start engine and hit store button for jacks.  By the time I get pads pulled out from under jacks we are ready to go.  She’ll be warmed up by the time we exit the park.

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I pull into site, shut off engine, plug in and then level and extend slides. Most big dp inverter/chargers will charge your house batteries at over 100 amps. [Assuming your slide pumps or electric motors run off your house batteries, mine do]. A soon as you plug in, your batteries are being charged. In my case no need to keep engine running. In any case, if running your slide motor for 30 seconds drops your voltage low enough to damage your pump, you might have a problem with your batteries or wiring. I think manufactures reccommending running your engine is just CYA. There is always one guy who will triy to extend his slides on a dead battery and get it stuck.

 

 

Edited by jcussen

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7 hours ago, lenp said:

Per my owners manual, I keep the engine running while leveling and extending the slides. 

By keeping the engine running you are keeping the battery voltage up which reduced the current (and resulting heat) required to run the hydraulic pump.  This reduced wear and tear on the pump.  If you had weak batteries and did not keep the engine running, pump current could very easily become excessive and result in premature pump failure.

Regardless, it only takes five minutes at most to get things level and slides out.

Lenp

My Manual says the same thing. It also says it right on my leveler panel that the engine needs to be running. If I try to put in my slides without engine on I will get "low voltage" on slide control panel.

Edited by Ranger Smith

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I've got a Detroit 6V92TA (two cycle engine) so mine is a bit different, but I still don't let the engine idle longer than needed. I get settled in the site, then put out the electric cord and tire covers, level, and shut down. Yes, probably the turbo has cooled enough by the time I get to the site, but I still need the engine running for leveling. Foretravels use the air bags for leveling (no drop-down jacks), so sometimes the coach is right on a tire, which is why the tire covers have to go on before leveling.

When departing, I get as much done inside and outside as I can, then start the Detroit and generator, put away the last things, and leave. Generally, by the time the air is up I'm ready to roll.

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10 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Leap, sounds like you need more batteries.  Pull/back in, make sure you are in the spot you want, THEN SHUT DOWN.  Plug in, the get water attached, put out sewer, if needed, by this time you should be on float, then level and extend slides (or extend slides/level is you have a Monaco IIRC).  No need for the engine to be running.   

When we leave, we get everything stowed, pull in slides, then start engine and hit store button for jacks.  By the time I get pads pulled out from under jacks we are ready to go.  She’ll be warmed up by the time we exit the park.

This is exactly why I would hesitate on walking over to a neighbor and trying to "educate" him on how to set up his equipment.  Most RVs, motorhomes included, the rig gets leveled first and then the slides get deployed.  For my current model I am required to deploy my slides prior to going off air suspension and leveling.  

I'll admit I can't think of any reason why he would be letting his engine run that long after setting up.  My toad is 9,700 pounds and I figure by the time I register and idle through a CG to my site my turbo is plenty cool to shut down.  To get back on air in the morning I have to run the engine for a few minutes of course but we generally try to leave after 8am.

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For some reason idling a diesel is a thing with some people.  A friend would start his Duramax 5 to 10 minutes before driving and let it idle for about that long before shutting it off upon arrival.  If they were delayed sometimes it would idle a LOT longer.  He was convinced it is the best way to care for a diesel.  He now does the same with his DP.  Trying to educate him would likely bring on anger. Some of us "youngsters" do not easily change.

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So it's better to rant than to teach someone who may be new, or not, to MH RVing?  I'm glad I pull a TT, but I do pull it with a RAM Turbo Diesel.  I'll be sure to look for you on the next site over as we travel.

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DocJ, I'm probably going to tick you off but here goes.  We all started out new and over the years have learned so much more and refined our techniques (as can be shown by the posts here). I was on another discussion group and it was amazing how many did not know their rigs enough to know how to get the two other idles let alone the reasoning behind them. With the massive increase in sales and the accompanying lack of training or even rudimentary familiarization of systems we're going to see a significant increase in those who don't know that they don't know and will simply do what they've heard from some guy whose brother's friend's cousin's sister-in-law was told at Jiffy Lube.

Personally, I will always (I hope) choose to help others and continue to learn and refine how I operate. If nothing else occurs, perhaps - just perhaps, they'll have a cold one to share :)

 

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18 hours ago, lenp said:

Per my owners manual, I keep the engine running while leveling and extending the slides. 

Ours said that, too. And since we would be at fault if we didn't follow the manual and something went wrong, we always did. Those few minutes of leveling and opening slides then doing the reverse on departure should not have been enough to make neighbors angry. Of course, on departure, we also ran the engine long enough to position the unit for hooking up our toad.

Linda

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5 hours ago, Randyretired said:

For some reason idling a diesel is a thing with some people.  A friend would start his Duramax 5 to 10 minutes before driving and let it idle for about that long before shutting it off upon arrival.  

That used to be SOP way back in the day.  Today, the only reason to idle a diesel LGT after running is IF it was run hard.  That allows the turbo to cool a bit before shutdown.  Says so in my owners manual.  I rarely do it and have no issues, but there is no definition, or even examples, of when it should be done.  I have yet to find a reason to idle an LGT before starting out.

My S&B neighbor allows his Ram hemi pickup to idle for several minutes every morning before he goes to work.  His father owned a garage decades ago and that is how they did it.  Old habits die hard even when they are useless.

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Diesel owners (operators) need to take a lesson from emergency vehicle operators,  like Fire Departments.

We had our first diesel powered fire apparatus in 1967.  In 30 years, never had an engine problem with any of the "fleet".  Start up and GO - whether emergency or non-emergency.  

On arrival at a location, some drivers (Engineers) *might* idle briefly prior to shut-down - *IF* -  it had not had a cool-down opportunity (slower speeds) before reaching the site of the emergency.  Ditto for a pumping operation.

Return to quarters - (normal driving) = shut down, with *NO* idle time.

BTW -  besides in-city (municipality) operation, many of those rigs traveled extensively on/for mutual aid (brush fires) etc., throughout the state - so response was both short and long distances.

The  specified length of service for equipment is usually 20 years, (which may include "reserve" status time).

Anyone who says otherwise (need to idle) is just......blowin' smoke!!

.

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, remoandiris said:

That used to be SOP way back in the day.  Today, the only reason to idle a diesel LGT after running is IF it was run hard.  That allows the turbo to cool a bit before shutdown.  Says so in my owners manual.  I rarely do it and have no issues, but there is no definition, or even examples, of when it should be done.  I have yet to find a reason to idle an LGT before starting out.

 

My HDT has a turbo exhaust gas temperature gauge and I like to these those temps around 300 before I shut down.  My LDT also has a exhaust gas temp guage.  Unless these have been run hard and then quickly stopped the temps are down by the time I arrive.  A few minutes at slower speed is all it takes.  The cooler temps are preferable to keep from burning oil stuck in the turbo but it is rarely a problem for me to see these lower temps after just a few minutes.

I like to start out as soon as the air is up but I baby it a little for the first couple of miles.  Usually the lower speeds at the start is all it needs.  I don't like to idle a cold diesel and I don't  like to listen to an idling diesel.

Edited by Randyretired

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7 hours ago, Chris-n-Dennis said:

We all started out new and over the years have learned so much more and refined our techniques (as can be shown by the posts here).

In the nearly eight years that we've been full-timing the proliferation of information on the internet has been enormous.  Lots of  information is available from reputable sources on virtually any topic.  A couple of Google searches is all it takes to find the answer to almost any question.  I prefer to get my answers from "primary sources" rather than from discussion groups or campground conversation; that's why I posted the link to the Caterpillar document.  That's something I can trust; not so with something I read in a discussion group or hear from someone at a campground.

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21 hours ago, lenp said:

Per my owners manual, I keep the engine running while leveling and extending the slides. 

By keeping the engine running you are keeping the battery voltage up which reduced the current (and resulting heat) required to run the hydraulic pump.  This reduced wear and tear on the pump.  If you had weak batteries and did not keep the engine running, pump current could very easily become excessive and result in premature pump failure.

Regardless, it only takes five minutes at most to get things level and slides out.

Lenp

 That's what I do, but in far less time than 20 minutes. 

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