Why can't DP owners learn the basics

[Pat & Pete]

11 minutes ago, hdrider said:

 That's what I do, but in far less time than 20 minutes. 

But , how many breaks do you take ? LOL

[lenp]

Barbaraok,

My batteries are fine.  Please understand that a fully charged battery (at rest) will have a maximum of 12.67 volts available.  Sure, after initial shutdown of the engine, that voltage will be much higher (13.4 to 14 volts) but that is only a surface charge that is quickly dissipated.  As soon as you start lowering jacks and extending slides WITHOUT the engine running the pump will drop the battery voltage well below 12 volts.  That pumps needs a certain amount of power to run.  If the voltage drops, the current MUST increase.  This means heat and excessive wear on the motor.  By keeping the engine running, the voltage is maintained closer to 13 volts, thus less current  (and heat) required.

The same thing applies to any motor - 12 volt DC or 120 AC - that is why many AC compressors fail due to low line voltage.  It is called HEAT.

I WILL run my engine when leveling and extending/retracting slides.  For 20 minutes - I don't think so. Perhaps five minutes but it takes close to that long to air up anyway.

Lenp

[Barbaraok]

16 hours ago, Ranger Smith said:

I only get a low voltage when extending or retracting the slides when NOT plugged in and engine NOT running.

How many batteries, what size, etc. do you have.   If only 2 6 volt, I can understand why the low voltage.  Next question, why aren't you plugged in before putting slides out?   We can put ours out (we have 4 6volt batteries), etc., without being plugged in, but it just makes sense to plug in and get to float before doing those things.    When we've been boon docking, we just start the generator up after getting to the spot we want, when the batteries are at float we then dump air and level, put out slides.  

[sandsys]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

When we've been boon docking, we just start the generator up after getting to the spot we want, when the batteries are at float we then dump air and level, put out slides.  

How is it better to run the generator long enough to get to float instead of running the engine the few minutes it takes to level and put out slides? Most boondockers don't want to hear your generator.

Linda

[Ranger Smith]

5 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

How many batteries, what size, etc. do you have.   If only 2 6 volt, I can understand why the low voltage.  Next question, why aren't you plugged in before putting slides out?   We can put ours out (we have 4 6volt batteries), etc., without being plugged in, but it just makes sense to plug in and get to float before doing those things.    When we've been boon docking, we just start the generator up after getting to the spot we want, when the batteries are at float we then dump air and level, put out slides.  

I guess it is each his own. When I get to a site I level with motor running then open slides with motor running. I then shut off motor and go outside and plug in and hook up water. I have 6 house batteries and they are all brand new along with my new chassis batteries. I'm sorry I mentioned about the low voltage thing as that is what my power gear full wall slide will show. It will only do it when putting slide in only when engine is not running. This is a normal operating condition for them. It happened once when I did not have motor running. Everyone is trying to read into something that isn't there. Bad batteries etc.

[Ranger Smith]

5 hours ago, lenp said:

Barbaraok,

My batteries are fine.  Please understand that a fully charged battery (at rest) will have a maximum of 12.67 volts available.  Sure, after initial shutdown of the engine, that voltage will be much higher (13.4 to 14 volts) but that is only a surface charge that is quickly dissipated.  As soon as you start lowering jacks and extending slides WITHOUT the engine running the pump will drop the battery voltage well below 12 volts.  That pumps needs a certain amount of power to run.  If the voltage drops, the current MUST increase.  This means heat and excessive wear on the motor.  By keeping the engine running, the voltage is maintained closer to 13 volts, thus less current  (and heat) required.

The same thing applies to any motor - 12 volt DC or 120 AC - that is why many AC compressors fail due to low line voltage.  It is called HEAT.

I WILL run my engine when leveling and extending/retracting slides.  For 20 minutes - I don't think so. Perhaps five minutes but it takes close to that long to air up anyway.

Lenp

Babaraok said the same thing to me. My batteries are also fine. Does not realize that as voltage drops current rises and more heat build up. I do it the exact same way as you LenP and will just keep doing it that way because it works.

[Ranger Smith]

9 hours ago, Pat & Pete said:

But , how many breaks do you take ? LOL

It's about a 4 beer setup

[TCW]

Putting slides out and leveling aside; I like to plug in right away to let the EMS do its thing and test the voltage, ground, etc. Nothing much more aggravating then getting setup and then finding that there is a problem with the power pedestal that requires a move. 

[Kirk W]

8 hours ago, lenp said:

I WILL run my engine when leveling and extending/retracting slides.

If a pusher has to keep the engine running to extend their slides, how does the fiver and travel trailer owner ever get his slides out, unless he has added a heavy gauge wire between the tow vehicle and his batteries since most harnesses will not carry enough power to operate a slide motor? I watched a fiver with 5 slides unhook and park his truck and successfully opened all of his slides. 

[justRich]

"Sticking with the wrong choice" research from the University of Minnesota may explain why it's better to NOT try to educate people.

 

[Pat & Pete]

3 hours ago, Ranger Smith said:

It's about a 4 beer setup

 Heck , I'd never finish setup . LOL

 

[richfaa]

We are going to have to pay more attention to folks running there generators and their diesel trucks. We  hear them run but have never been overly annoyed.We have several  MH' around us at our Florida  residence there are two right behind us. They all seem to choose the same day to run their diesels usually for about 30 minutes .We take this time to run our portable generator that is in the rear of our F-350. We have never been annoyed by this nor has it prevented us form being outside. What does annoy us are those long legged Florida birds that will stand around outside and honk till we throw something at them

[Pat & Pete]

1 hour ago, richfaa said:

We are going to have to pay more attention to folks running there generators and their diesel trucks. We  hear them run but have never been overly annoyed.We have several  MH' around us at our Florida  residence there are two right behind us. They all seem to choose the same day to run their diesels usually for about 30 minutes .We take this time to run our portable generator that is in the rear of our F-350. We have never been annoyed by this nor has it prevented us form being outside. What does annoy us are those long legged Florida birds that will stand around outside and honk till we throw something at them

That sounds like a sure way to become annoyed .

[docj]

On 7/14/2018 at 8:34 PM, lenp said:

Per my owners manual, I keep the engine running while leveling and extending the slides. 

My coach makes it easy for me.  Slides are to be extended first and the ignition must be OFF.  I've never checked the battery voltage after extending our large slide since I don't care--we almost always have an electrical hookup for recharging the batteries.  The amount of energy used for deploying the slides is minimal compared to the total energy contained in 4-six volt batteries.

As for leveling, the ignition must be on but, since the engine is already off because that's what was necessary for the slides, there's no reason to turn it back on just for the jacks.  I dump the air then turn the ignition on to deploy the levelers.

[Barbaraok]

11 hours ago, sandsys said:

How is it better to run the generator long enough to get to float instead of running the engine the few minutes it takes to level and put out slides? Most boondockers don't want to hear your generator.

Linda

Generator is DESIGNED to be run just sitting.  Big diesel OVR engines are designed to be RUN at highway speeds.   Plus generator takes a lot less fuel and is a LOT quieter.   

[sandsys]

1 minute ago, Barbaraok said:

In fact, we CAN'T level nor put out the slides with engine running.

Apparently your system was designed differently than mine and LenP's since you can't do what we were required to do. I don't understand why you insist we do things your way when that's obviously wrong for us. Are you going to pay for our repairs caused by doing it your way?

Linda

[Barbaraok]

7 hours ago, Ranger Smith said:

I guess it is each his own. When I get to a site I level with motor running then open slides with motor running. I then shut off motor and go outside and plug in and hook up water. I have 6 house batteries and they are all brand new along with my new chassis batteries. I'm sorry I mentioned about the low voltage thing as that is what my power gear full wall slide will show. It will only do it when putting slide in only when engine is not running. This is a normal operating condition for them. It happened once when I did not have motor running. Everyone is trying to read into something that isn't there. Bad batteries etc.

Ah, so your slide isn't hydraulic?  And why doesn't plugging in bring sufficient power to the coach to enable you to be able to put slide in and out?  

[Barbaraok]

2 minutes ago, sandsys said:

Apparently your system was designed differently than mine and LenP's since you can't do what we were required to do. I don't understand why you insist we do things your way when that's obviously wrong for us. Are you going to pay for our repairs caused by doing it your way?

Linda

I, and others I guess, just assume that people have decent electrical systems in their rigs so once plugged in they can operate all house systems without a problem.  I can't believe that people would do a lot of set up before verifying that they have good power.  Now, if you're boon docking, then I can see the difference, but if you are plugged in, why would the engine be going?

[jcussen]

Many full size diesel pushers and even smaller ones, will have a 100 to 160 amp alternator that will probably put out 60 to 100 amps at idle. These same coaches would probably have inverter/charger that will put out as much as 125 amps when plugged in. So engine running or plugged in will have the same results. The reason manufacturers say run the engine is because they assume that someone will try to run out their slides or level the coach with depleted batteries and not be plugged in, and cause an unacceptable voltage drop that my damage the electric motors on the pumps.  The simplest solution for the manufacturer is to say leave the engine running. Barbarok understands his coach, and realizes [as do I and many others that know their coaches], that being plugged in, will result in the same voltage and current being applied to your batteries, as running your engine.. This may not apply to all smaller coaches, vans etc.

 

 

 

[Mr. Camper]

6 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

If a pusher has to keep the engine running to extend their slides, how does the fiver and travel trailer owner ever get his slides out, unless he has added a heavy gauge wire between the tow vehicle and his batteries since most harnesses will not carry enough power to operate a slide motor? I watched a fiver with 5 slides unhook and park his truck and successfully opened all of his slides. 

I keep the RAM running while I check the power at the site, then we level.  That's when we unhook the truck and stabilize and hook up the utilities.  Then we open the slides and Mrs. Camper takes care of the inside while I finish the outside.  Having said that, it's also not what we did many years ago when we bought our first RAM diesel.  I learned to do it more efficiently when other, seasoned campers explained to me how to do it more efficiently.  I've since learned to pay it forward, many times over.  It only takes a minute to show/explain it to someone and keeps me from ranting in a discussion forum.

[sandsys]

2 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Ah, so your slide isn't hydraulic?  And why doesn't plugging in bring sufficient power to the coach to enable you to be able to put slide in and out?  

Maybe because I've never found an outlet in the desert? OK, there was that one that IYQ set up plugged into a current bush.

Linda

[Ranger Smith]

WHO CARES . . . Your way is right for you and mine is right for me . . . GIVE IT A REST instead of arguing about it.

[jcussen]

24 minutes ago, Ranger Smith said:

WHO CARES . . . Your way is right for you and mine is right for me . . . GIVE IT A REST instead of arguing about it.

Actually I am interested, Some people think that if their grandad did it that way, it has to stay that way. I like to see others methods and look at other points of view, and if I see one that is easier or more efficient than the one I am using, I will change.  Used to think that cooking with gas was the only way,  till someone showed me an induction cooktop........

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, jcussen said:

Many full size diesel pushers and even smaller ones, will have a 100 to 160 amp alternator that will probably put out 60 to 100 amps at idle. These same coaches would probably have inverter/charger that will put out as much as 125 amps when plugged in. So engine running or plugged in will have the same results. The reason manufacturers say run the engine is because they assume that someone will try to run out their slides or level the coach with depleted batteries and not be plugged in, and cause an unacceptable voltage drop that my damage the electric motors on the pumps.  The simplest solution for the manufacturer is to say leave the engine running. Barbarok understands his coach, and realizes [as do I and many others that know their coaches], that being plugged in, will result in the same voltage and current being applied to your batteries, as running your engine.. This may not apply to all smaller coaches, vans etc.

 

 

 

Yes, SHE does understand her coach. 

[Barbaraok]

41 minutes ago, sandsys said:

Maybe because I've never found an outlet in the desert? OK, there was that one that IYQ set up plugged into a current bush.

Linda

And the discussion started about people running engines to set up IN AN RV PARK.