Mastercraft Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 I took apart the DPF and had it cleaned since I don't know how long its been since it was done and it seemed like the regens were happening more often. After it was baked out, contacted Volvo for gaskets to put it back together. Volvo really likes the stuff they put their name on, so got aftermarket on line for 20% of what Volvo wanted. Now the fun starts. I talked to the mechanic types at Inland Kenworth where I had the DPF baked out. They said to check the doser (7th injector) and clean the carbon off to insure the regen process works and get as hot as it should. Ok, no problem. Again Volvo wants $85 for the doser gasket kit......aftermarket $20. It seems the doser had never been taken off and the two metric bolts (less than 1/4" diameter) that hold the doser on had made themselves one with the cast iron pipe that is Vband clamped to the outlet of the turbo. So, I do my 50/50 trans fluid and acetone to attempt to penetrate the threads. Didn''t really work too well. You can't get to the bolt to add any heat. So, one bolt came out after doing the loosen tighten dance all the way out. The other one, well, most of it stayed with the cast pipe, but I got the rest of it. By the way, a mule skinner would have taken notice of my descriptors when it was obvious the bolt had been twisted past its material elasticity limit. Unless there are suggestions, my path is to weld a nut onto the 3/16" of exposed bolt. If that doesn't work, drill it out and don't break off an easy out in there. Or maybe drill out both of them and put a more substantial diameter bolt in there. Progress pictures to follow 2009 Volvo 780 D16 535hp 1850 ft-lbs I shift 3.36 Thermo King Tripac APU DIY Bed and Frame Extension ET Hitch, Stellar EC2000, EcoGen 6K 2002 F350 CC Dually w/ Lance 1181 2012 Mini Cooper S 2007 Teton Royal Freedom " The only place you will find success before work is the dictionary " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewhoknowslittle Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 I Myself I’ve had great luck with welding a nut on the end of a broken off bolt and then removing it with an impact, I do it while it’s still hot as the heat will help break it loose you have nothing to lose by doing this and everything to gain. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 I would try all of above, but worse case you can always helicoil it. 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adept99 Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 Not real common, but plumbers have a torch that uses ambient air and straight acetylene through a pretty small torch (8"-9") and it will get what you're working on hotter than a firecracker. If you need one & can't find one, shoot me a PM. Keep on with the ATF & Acetone. Grease your drill bits so you don't dump a bunch a metal chips down the throat. Good Luck Paul & Paula + Daisy the amazing wiggle worm dog... 2001 Volvo 770 Autoshift, Singled, w/ Aluminum Bed - Toy Draggin 2013 395AMP XLR Thunderbolt Toy Hauler 2013 Smart Passion 2012 CanAm Spyder RT 2013 Harley Davidson Street Glide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 If you can, drill a very small hole down the center of the broken fastener, then heat it and the surrounding area. Rub a candle on it and let it wick in the wax. Then shoot compressed air through the hole you drilled. The air will chill the broken bolt enough to turn it out with a pliers. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 Based on my experiences with ez outs, i would try other methods above, then just drill the bolt out and tap the hole before i would attempt breaking an ez-out in the bolt. much harder to drill out high carbon steel. 98 379 with 12.7 DD LG Dodge w/5.9 CTD Chrome habit I’m trying to kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob A Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 I ussually weld a washer to bolt then weld a nut to washer, you get a better weld that way, then quench nut and washer to shrink bolt and turn out 2014 jayco siesmic 3914 1998 volvo 610, singled short ( bought in 2005) 14 speed volvo tranny 2014 Toyota yaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atv_idiot Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 Any part numbers for the DPF gaskets and doser kit that can be purchased elsewhere? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moresmoke Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Bob A said: I ussually weld a washer to bolt then weld a nut to washer, you get a better weld that way, then quench nut and washer to shrink bolt and turn out I'm with Bob. Weld a flat washer first then nut. Bolts usually come out of cast fairly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercraft Posted June 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 These are the P/Ns I got Doser kit https://www.ebay.com/itm/DPF-INJECTOR-SERVICE-KIT-Gasket-Bolts-For-ISX-ISM-CUMMINS/272010514808?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 DPF and exhaust pipe gaskets From www.dpfgasketsupply.com 21371339 crosses to CGI-71339 21095726 crosses to FSS-95726 2009 Volvo 780 D16 535hp 1850 ft-lbs I shift 3.36 Thermo King Tripac APU DIY Bed and Frame Extension ET Hitch, Stellar EC2000, EcoGen 6K 2002 F350 CC Dually w/ Lance 1181 2012 Mini Cooper S 2007 Teton Royal Freedom " The only place you will find success before work is the dictionary " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atv_idiot Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Mastercraft said: These are the P/Ns I got Doser kit https://www.ebay.com/itm/DPF-INJECTOR-SERVICE-KIT-Gasket-Bolts-For-ISX-ISM-CUMMINS/272010514808?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 DPF and exhaust pipe gaskets From www.dpfgasketsupply.com 21371339 crosses to CGI-71339 21095726 crosses to FSS-95726 Interesting.. Thanks for the info. Looks as if everything crosses over to Cummins... Good luck getting the bolt out. Let us know what finally works for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runaway parents Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 If I got this right for every 100 degrees of heat metal expands 1000s of an inch so with that being said drill a hole threw screw. and take a can off air (you know the kind that you can buy at office depot they use it to clean computers and such)turn it up side down and blow it threw the bolt freezing it . Should cause the screw to constrict enough to back it out of there with a easy out. but you have to work quick .Might use a hot air gun on outside area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercraft Posted June 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 I think this is a blind hole for these two bolts. That is they don't break into the exhaust path.....seems like if they did, you could never get these out, even on a good day. This is my weld plan Smashed a penny pretty thin on the anvil. Drill hole to match bolt diameter (this is if I get carried away with the MIG so I don't weld the bolt to the cast) This copper washer goes on first. ( i know...ain't much copper in a penny any more) Next a steel washer and small tack Next a little thicker/bigger steel washer with a tack and puddle weld the whole deal Next a nut, little tack outside and puddle the inside full I like the quench idea for the next step Hit it with a hammer Then get a box wrench on it and do the tighten loosen thing and hope it cooperates. So, looking forward, when I put the new bolts in....anti seize or is there something that will take the heat better......Teflon tape, or ??? 2009 Volvo 780 D16 535hp 1850 ft-lbs I shift 3.36 Thermo King Tripac APU DIY Bed and Frame Extension ET Hitch, Stellar EC2000, EcoGen 6K 2002 F350 CC Dually w/ Lance 1181 2012 Mini Cooper S 2007 Teton Royal Freedom " The only place you will find success before work is the dictionary " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiaHybrid Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 Instead of a penny, get a 3/4" copper pipe cap and flatten it. Nothing will stick to it and you should be good to go with your welding. Since 1982, a penny is 97.5% zinc and only 2.5% copper. That zinc will melt, coat the broken off bolt and make it very difficult for you. 2017 Kenworth T6802015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites2016 Smart Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 All of the above solutions have worked for me at various times. Do the least invasive things first so you always have a "Plan B". That's why I suggested the hole and compressed air. If the air nozzle is small enough, it won't matter if the hole is blind. The escaping air will still chill the broken bolt. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moresmoke Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 As long as you don't get too wild with the welder, the weld will not stick to the cast. I have successfully pulled Cat manifold bolts out of the head that were broke off 3/8 into the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 7:20 AM, Mastercraft said: I took apart the DPF and had it cleaned since I don't know how long its been since it was done and it seemed like the regens were happening more often. After it was baked out, contacted Volvo for gaskets to put it back together. Volvo really likes the stuff they put their name on, so got aftermarket on line for 20% of what Volvo wanted. Now the fun starts. I talked to the mechanic types at Inland Kenworth where I had the DPF baked out. They said to check the doser (7th injector) and clean the carbon off to insure the regen process works and get as hot as it should. Ok, no problem. Again Volvo wants $85 for the doser gasket kit......aftermarket $20. It seems the doser had never been taken off and the two metric bolts (less than 1/4" diameter) that hold the doser on had made themselves one with the cast iron pipe that is Vband clamped to the outlet of the turbo. So, I do my 50/50 trans fluid and acetone to attempt to penetrate the threads. Didn''t really work too well. You can't get to the bolt to add any heat. So, one bolt came out after doing the loosen tighten dance all the way out. The other one, well, most of it stayed with the cast pipe, but I got the rest of it. By the way, a mule skinner would have taken notice of my descriptors when it was obvious the bolt had been twisted past its material elasticity limit. Unless there are suggestions, my path is to weld a nut onto the 3/16" of exposed bolt. If that doesn't work, drill it out and don't break off an easy out in there. Or maybe drill out both of them and put a more substantial diameter bolt in there. Progress pictures to follow Master.... Sounds a little Hi-Tech coming from a old hill Billy but IF you really want that bolt out cleanly without any damage just look for a local machine shop that has a EDM machine and have them Electro-Discharge-Machine the bolt out in very little time .....no fuss....we removed broken taps in $700,000 turbine parts without any sweat..... Many large motorcyle machine shops use EDM to recover broken studs in bike cylinders a lot. Drive on...... (Try EDM ...... you will like it/ 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runaway parents Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Dollytrolley said: Master.... Sounds a little Hi-Tech coming from a old hill Billy but IF you really want that bolt out cleanly without any damage just look for a local machine shop that has a EDM machine and have them Electro-Discharge-Machine the bolt out in very little time .....no fuss....we removed broken taps in $700,000 turbine parts without any sweat..... Many large motorcyle machine shops use EDM to recover broken studs in bike cylinders a lot. Drive on...... (Try EDM ...... you will like it/ This sounds interesting. Need more input is there any videos on how this thing works. Yet another way to skin a cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollytrolley Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 56 minutes ago, runaway parents said: This sounds interesting. Need more input is there any videos on how this thing works. Yet another way to skin a cat Hey Runaway...... Esentually EDM simply "sparks-away' the metal by precise placed Electro-Discharge ...... Not new but most folks don't know about the process..... Very handy if you need a hole smaller than a human hair drilled into solid carbide...... Drive on.......(EDM......handy) 97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiaHybrid Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Dolly, EDM is also really good at putting ports in barrels to reduce muzzle rise. It doesn't disturb the rifling by leaving a burr like a normal machining process would. 2017 Kenworth T6802015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites2016 Smart Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from SoCal Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 A tap burner is not quite a wire EDM. I have an old Electro Arc machine, they are great for removing the broken carbide drill in the broken E-Z out in the broken bolt. Seems everybody starts with the most readily available means and go down the rabbit hole until there are no more ways to try. E-Z outs are pretty good on 3/8+ bolts where you can drill clean through the bolt, blind holes or smaller sizes are less successful. Welding a nut is a good option, wax when the bolt is still hot is a good idea too. It makes sense to try and remove the bolt in place IF there is good access and a bit of work to remove the part. Worst case you will have to find someone with a burner. Steve 2005 Peterbilt 387-112 Baby Cat 9 speed U-shift 1996/2016 remod Teton Royal Atlanta 1996 Kentucky 48 single drop stacker garage project Pulls like a train, sounds like a plane....faster than a Cheetah sniffin cocaine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercraft Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 I got the rest of the *^%&$$ bolt out. Did the "weld a nut on" three times....got maybe a 1/2 turn out of it total. At the point where the bolt was flush or below the surface of the cast pipe, drilling became my next step. So, $35 for a Harbor Freight right angle air drill and off I went. Did everything right, no broken bits. I will have to put a Heli-Coil in as my drilling got into the minor thread diameter a little. I used this thing call a screw remover to get the last bit of the ^%$^&^&*^ bolt out. first time I used one of these but it worked good. Never gave me the feeling that is was going to get itself stuck in the hole. I see this as a win since there are no broken off tools in the hole right now. 2009 Volvo 780 D16 535hp 1850 ft-lbs I shift 3.36 Thermo King Tripac APU DIY Bed and Frame Extension ET Hitch, Stellar EC2000, EcoGen 6K 2002 F350 CC Dually w/ Lance 1181 2012 Mini Cooper S 2007 Teton Royal Freedom " The only place you will find success before work is the dictionary " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercraft Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 2009 Volvo 780 D16 535hp 1850 ft-lbs I shift 3.36 Thermo King Tripac APU DIY Bed and Frame Extension ET Hitch, Stellar EC2000, EcoGen 6K 2002 F350 CC Dually w/ Lance 1181 2012 Mini Cooper S 2007 Teton Royal Freedom " The only place you will find success before work is the dictionary " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercraft Posted June 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 Update - The threads in the cast pipe were fine. A big win for me. So, the reason I pulled the DPF out and cleaned it was regens seemed to be happening more often over the last two summer adventure seasons. Based on the doser gasket, the doser function may have been the cause.....things may not have gotten hot enough to do a decent regen. Looks like the path for the 7th injector to put fuel in the exhaust path is almost blocked 2009 Volvo 780 D16 535hp 1850 ft-lbs I shift 3.36 Thermo King Tripac APU DIY Bed and Frame Extension ET Hitch, Stellar EC2000, EcoGen 6K 2002 F350 CC Dually w/ Lance 1181 2012 Mini Cooper S 2007 Teton Royal Freedom " The only place you will find success before work is the dictionary " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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