Waiting to 65 to retire - death risk versus finances

[sandsys]

4 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Remember that the retirees you see on this forum tend to be a little healthier and have better retirement planning than our age cohort as a whole

I know a lot of people living in vans and cargo trailers that are just barely getting by, bu, they don't tend to be on this forum. They're more like to be on Bob Well's forum because they see that as being their tribe.

Linda

[RV_]

Good one Linda. Tribe. Americans of all tribes used to trade and enjoy each other. I just do the golden rule, love your neighbor - NO EXCEPTIONS! <grin>

If you don't like long posts, don't read this. But you can see that before you start right? 

Zulu, I've met many in our age/RV peer group from full timing 1997-2003 and some more since. Just because someone says they did well does not mean they are lying. And in the South we have folks who "Po' mouth" meaning they pretend to be broke and are far from it.

I agree that our age bracket of retirees are usually a good spread. But the generation of my 45 and 42 y/o sons are going to be much less fortunate with exceptions of course. My grandkids, the millenials are really changing goals and standards for their living. That generation will not have a middle class as we have now.

You know Zulu, as an RVr you can travel and visit the folks you think are putting on airs. I have found that a large percentage of folks can't believe what even a less than lucky in money matters career military family has seen and done. It's not my job to worry I don't exceed their capacity to believe. Just being ourselves intimidates a lot of good ol boys. Some try to sharpshoot us and catch us out, and once I see that, it is too tedious to be worthwhile. I'm no better than another, and no worse. But certainly have no need to prove anything. I've found it is just fine to accept others at their word until they ask for money or prove to be toxic. No time for toxic. I have my circle of close friends and we are a very diverse group, from paycheck to paycheck to independent like us. The key is we like each other and are tolerant as a group.

As far as "limited resource thinking" here's a piece I wrote while still active duty:

"Generally, folks measure their success and security in life by "things." Some folks never ever can have enough things and are horrified when another makes the decision that "things" are like a millstone around your neck. You have to pay for them, then find a place for them, then dust them, then fix them when they break, and store them when you realize you aren't using them, and even getting rid of them is a pain whether yard sale, arranging for a goodwill pick up or just hauling them to the dump, involves re-inventorying, moving around and finding a new order to keep the "things" you are saving in. Many folks have beautiful furnishings yet buy all new furnishings every year or two just to validate their feelings of having things!

An illustration. I used to build and restore custom super stock VWs and Porsches. I restored a Porsche 911 Targa that I found for 900.00 rusting away and fortunately discovered it only needed some new vacuum lines and an Air Box to run perfectly along with some minor seals etc. So just couple of thousand later I had what looked and ran like a brand new 911. I enjoyed it for two years and then decided to sell it when I got orders to Germany. My friends and a few family members on finding out I was selling it were horrified Saying the same thing-"How can you sell it!!!???" I knew what they were really saying, that if they had a 911 they'd never be able to part with it because of the prestige, pride, image or whatever. As if a hunk of metal with an engine would make them "different." That's conditioning. Knowing what they were really saying (and with a few it was really disappointing to hear that they were that way) I didn't lecture or try to explain. I'd answer with an innocent look-"How can I sell it? Well, I put an ad in the paper/online and people call me and one of them buys it." (With a straight face) To which every one replied that's not what I mean-I mean you have a Porsche 911! How can you part with it? Then my answer was "If I want another one, I can just buy it, they have after all made millions of them haven't they."

People don't realize what they really tell you about themselves a lot of the time with comments like that. You see, they were "limited resource thinkers." They truly feel that when someone gets something, it has been removed from their possibilities. Like a limited pie with four pieces, they view the world as limited and when you get a piece of the pie that is one less available to them. I'm sure you have sold a car or something at one time or another and had a friend say something after the fact like "You sold it for that?? I would have given you that or more!!" I could never resist, you see they were viewing your good sale price as something they didn't get (limited resource thinking) and so had to try to rain on your parade some with a silly statement like that. They also do the same when you buy something and instead of being as thrilled as you are, have to say Oh man you could have gotten it cheaper at . . .or I could have gotten it for you cheaper from . . .?  I can't resist that scenario! LOL! My response (on a sale) Oh really? Well I told the guy that until he pays the cash, which he said he'd do next week, that it is still on the market and will go to the first person who comes up with the cash! I'm so glad we talked! So when do you want to pick it up?" I almost always can keep a straight face while they start to fumble for a way out of their faux pas. Not once, of hundreds of times I have pulled that on a limited resource thinker, have they been sincere. Every time the car or whatever was actually sold, but those people want everybody to be as unhappy as they are. And speak volumes of their view of the world.
 

The decision to RV indeed is not for everyone. But for some it is an acquisition of freedom that they lack the courage or desire to make. It invalidates their clinging to "things" or people, neither of which is forever. In life you can't freeze it and stay in a good time or place-there is no neutral, you are either in forward or reverse. Put another way the only difference between a grave and a rut are the dimensions. Some view RVing as a freedom that has somehow been removed from their realm of possibilities. I just tell them that there is no difference if we don't see each other for few months at a time from across town, or for the same time from experiencing this great land and its people in person. We will still be alive and coming for a visit, just like before, and boy will we have stories. See you can always get another house or apartment if you choose to, they have after all made millions of them haven't they. All it takes is a few shiny pieces of gold and silver or their equivalent and that's easy. The horizons, camaraderie, wonder, and adventure of the next real experience cannot be compared to sitting at home watching the Discovery channel. But if that's what floats their boat, it's OK with me. I won't try to impose my choices on them, and expect them to not try to impose theirs on me. On the road we get almost 100% genuine kudos from the folks we meet saying they wish they could be doing the same thing. They have the same dream for someday, we are living the dream now!
Safe travels
On edit:

I cross-trained from Medic and Med Lab technologist to Combat arms, training all our base personnel on pistols, shotguns, rifles, lt squad and heavy Machine guns, Shoulder fired rockets, grenade launchers and grenade machine guns like the Mk 19. And we fixed them when they broke, designed and maintained our indoor and outdoor range complexes.

I came from a college educated family and military and even went to kindergarten and first grade in Spanish, when we lived in Colombia for two years. I speak German OK, Spanish fluently, some French, Arabic (Farsi) and several others. So from knowing the chemistry and blood work, physical symptoms, sewing folks up and doing ER work, my vocabulary was pretty wide and diverse. Well the gun guys were a bit put off and after I'd been in the field for six months one of my guys, (I was a SSgt. In four years) asked me if I went home every night and looked up big words to use. ??

I thought about after I realized he was serious. I didn't play superiority games and explained it to him like this. I told him the way I speak is my natural speech. And if I use a word he didn't know just ask, and soon you'll have folks asking if you go home to look up "big words."

But I told him, if I looked down on him, and thought him less than me, I would be using small words which would make me patronizing and shallow. Then I would be looking down. In friendship we're all equals. I got a lot of that once my folks in a new unit got to know I was sincere. I do believe as Flaubert put it, in "Le mot just." The perfect word. I don't talk down to, or up to folks. And certainly am not ashamed nor feel the least bit apologetic for my education and experiences to any limited resource thinker. If they have a problem, THEY have the problem, and it isn't my job to fix or teach the world, unless asked like in the vocabulary example above. But it is to be kind, yet live by my honor code, "We will not lie cheat or steal, nor tolerate among us, anyone who does."

I expect folks to be nice, and people always will live up to, or down to, our expectations.

(Just don't tell the asylum you saw me here)

 

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by RV_

[Jesse A]

My wife and I recently started full-timing in our new to us 2015 Keystone Cougar. We decided to start this  full-time RV journey after surviving the Route 91 Harvest festival shooting. We were right at ground zero, saw and experienced things that no one should ever see. After a near death experience and struggling with daily life, we realized that the life we were living was not living! We started to make the switch to full-timing, sold off most of our possessions, rented out our house and bought the 5th wheel. We are three months in, we talk about retirement all the time and how its not guaranteed that you make it to retirement. We are going to try and keep the full-timing going as long as we can.

[TrapperBob]

I told people that worked for me to retire when you know you can afford it. I retired at 59yr. 9months of age and sold everything to go full time. No regrets. Started SS at 62 felt pretty good. Only you know when it is time. 

 

Enjoy the journey 

[Matthew]

Why wait to retiree?

Because it wasn't until age 63 the I was 100% vested in work's pension plan.

Because if I retired before the wife qualified for Medicare, she would have no insurance.

Because downsizing the house was a part of my retirement financial plan.  Wife cried at the thought so I had to work longer to make up for keeping the house.

Because every year I wait the higher the Social Security payout would be. 

[Kirk W]

On 6/5/2019 at 9:19 AM, Jesse A said:

We are three months in, we talk about retirement all the time and how its not guaranteed that you make it to retirement.

How far do you still have to go in order to reach your projected retirement? We were fortunate in that I made most of my career with a company that had early retirement as a part of their benefits package. I was able to meet the requirements of that program and retire at the age of 57, with a health care plan as part of the benefits. I don't know if that programs still exists for my previous employer today or not. I hesitated to leave then as I could have increased the size of my retirement checks by staying there longer but looking back and very glad that I resisted temptation. 

[Jesse A]

28 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

How far do you still have to go in order to reach your projected retirement? We were fortunate in that I made most of my career with a company that had early retirement as a part of their benefits package. I was able to meet the requirements of that program and retire at the age of 57, with a health care plan as part of the benefits. I don't know if that programs still exists for my previous employer today or not. I hesitated to leave then as I could have increased the size of my retirement checks by staying there longer but looking back and very glad that I resisted temptation. 

I'm 33 and my wife is 31. We are very fortunate that she can work remotely, we have a house and a rental that we rent in CA.  I was self employed so I dont have any retirement, wife has a 401. We plan to have our properties pay themselves off and live off the monthly income.  Little unconventional but hopefully it works. Life is short!

[Jesse A]

Everyone's situation is different, hopefully my response didn't conce off as rude (I was not trying to be what so ever). We just have a slightly different look on life after route 91.

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Jesse A said:

We plan to have our properties pay themselves off and live off the monthly income.  Little unconventional but hopefully it works. Life is short!

You may also want to look into work-camping to add some extra revenue & a free site or you could try being an RV volunteer as many of us here have done as that dramatically lowers your expenses. 

[PODebbie]

I have seen so many co-workers and friends and family blow thru their weekly paychecks.  They smoke, drink, have the latest phone, play the lottery, and cable and a lot of channels.  They spend money on cars and clothes.  All the things that are depreciating in value.  My husband and I were government workers.  We drove puddle jumpers, we bought a house that took most of our take home paychecks.  We ate out at Mickey D's and fast food, they ate out at sit down restaurants.  We bought our clothes at K-mart and resale shops, they shopped at Macy's and bought designer clothing.  Now.....30 years later, we have a house paid for, a savings account and a couple of pensions.  We chose to work for the government at lower wages than Ford, GM or Chrysler.  We are in the Detroit area.   My family seems to think that we are lucky to be able to retire at 52 and 57.  It has been 10 years, my brother in-laws are still working with no end in sight.  They borrowed off their 401K plans and spent every dime.  We camped in a tent when the kids were growing up, my sisters stayed in hotels.  We currently have a van.  I visit CheapRVLiving website and this website.  We could pay cash for a new motor home, but why.  I hate camping in campgrounds.  I do plan on doing a world trip with my daughter in 2020.   So, we are like little kids building a tent, we are going to go on another trip with our van.  We are probably going to buy a winter home in Florida, why, because we did not spend every penny for the last 30 years.  We lived under our budget, now we can retire in style.  It is not because the stars shone down on us, it was because we did not have any major problems and we didn't buy everything in sight, 

[Zulu]

1 hour ago, PODebbie said:

We ate out at Mickey D's and fast food, they ate out at sit down restaurants. 

Since your diet may have lowered your life expectancy, it's probably a good thing you retired early. Kudos!

[Jesse A]

5 hours ago, Kirk W said:

You may also want to look into work-camping to add some extra revenue & a free site or you could try being an RV volunteer as many of us here have done as that dramatically lowers your expenses. 

Thanks for the advice we have! We want to travel and move around for a while then I would definitely love to camp host!

[Kirk W]

When you are ready to slow, campground hosting is only 1 of a long list of volunteer and paid positions that are available to you.

[Jesse A]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

When you are ready to slow, campground hosting is only 1 of a long list of volunteer and paid positions that are available to you.

Definitely some great options out there, as of now we move weekly!

[Ray,IN]

Interesting reading  on Social Security:https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/dont-believe-these-social-security-myths

[Barbaraok]

On 6/6/2019 at 1:51 PM, Matthew said:

Why wait to retiree?

.......

Because every year I wait the higher the Social Security payout would be. 

And you will be a year closer to limited mobility or death.   I am so glad we took early retirement.  We couldn't do today (13 years later) what we could do when we first retired.    More money doesn't mean more happiness or ability to enjoy what you have worked so hard to accumulate.   So many friends have died working that "extra year or two" and never got to enjoy anything.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Barbaraok

[Kirk W]

59 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

I am so glad we took early retirement.  We couldn't do today (13 years later) what we could do when we first retired.    More money doesn't mean more happiness or ability to enjoy what you have worked so hard to accumulate.  

We very much agree with your thoughts! I left at the very earliest that my employer would give me retirement without penalty (age 57) and that has now been almost 20 years ago. We started to draw our social security at the age of 62 and that too was, for us the right decision. Yes, we would have more money if we had waited, but we would have missed out on so many wonderful experiences that we will always remember from those extra yeas. Remember that the only thing you have which once gone can never be recovered or replaced is time. Use it well as yours will run out far more quickly than you think!

[2gypsies]

5 hours ago, Kirk W said:

We very much agree with your thoughts! I left at the very earliest that my employer would give me retirement without penalty (age 57) and that has now been almost 20 years ago. We started to draw our social security at the age of 62 and that too was, for us the right decision. Yes, we would have more money if we had waited, but we would have missed out on so many wonderful experiences that we will always remember from those extra yeas. Remember that the only thing you have which once gone can never be recovered or replaced is time. Use it well as yours will run out far more quickly than you think!

This was us, also.  However, we left at ages 52.  Never regretted it!

[justRich]

I don't like leaving money on the table.  
It's a big pile of money not in your pocket if you wait.
 

[Matthew]

On 6/15/2019 at 6:24 PM, Barbaraok said:

And you will be a year closer to limited mobility or death.   I am so glad we took early retirement.  We couldn't do today (13 years later) what we could do when we first retired.    More money doesn't mean more happiness or ability to enjoy what you have worked so hard to accumulate.   So many friends have died working that "extra year or two" and never got to enjoy anything.

In my case, I'm healthy.  No past health problems.  Height and weight for a 66 year old are within norms.  Grandpa lived to 99 and dad to 92, both died in their sleep and nether had any health problems that prevented them from enjoying life. 

On the wife's side, one grand mother lived to 93 and the other to 103.  Her mother is still going strong.  Wife had her female plumbing removed and bladder rehung.

So in our case working a few more years, delaying Social Security checks for a few more years will provide for a bigger retirement nest egg for us.

Your mileage will vary.

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Matthew

[2gypsies]

Matthew, the family history you gave doesn't mean it's an absolute given for you.  A lot of things aren't hereditary.  You could also be in a car accident, for instance.

[Barbaraok]

Our cardiologist was 48 (in practice with his 70+ yr old father), no family history of heart disease, in great physical shape, out mountain biking with teenage son and had a massive heart attacked and died.    

[Matthew]

52 minutes ago, 2gypsies said:

Matthew, the family history you gave doesn't mean it's an absolute given for you.  A lot of things aren't hereditary.  You could also be in a car accident, for instance.

True.  But family history does tilt the odd towards my favor.  Let's bring this up again in 25 years so we can compare notes?  😀

[hemsteadc]

On 6/6/2019 at 8:55 PM, PODebbie said:

I have seen so many co-workers and friends and family blow thru their weekly paychecks. .... We ate out at Mickey D's and fast food, they ate out at sit down restaurants...   We are probably going to buy a winter home in Florida, why, because we did not spend every penny for the last 30 years.  We lived under our budget, now we can retire in style.  

In my office working days I saw the same things.. blowing through every paycheck as if it was their last. But what really blew my mind was listening to them bitch about the forced retirement savings coming out of their paychecks (city gov't.)  What they could do with the extra money, how they could invest it better..bitching about Social security.. blah blah..   all the time I'm thinking "yeah, right, you're just going to blow it." I think I was rather lucky to be concerned about retirement when I was 30.

I hope fast food wasn't a habit, because that's neither thrifty nor healthy!  And when you hit your 60s you need all the health you can get. And that comes from a lifetime of taking care of yourself.

I never had to be quite that thrifty, I was a weekend musician with a 40 hr job, but I bought a house I could afford, a car I could afford, and cooked at home. And when married, there was no way I wanted a brood of children to support.  

Good on you for the winter home.  Like Dave Ramsey says "live like no one else so later on you can live like no one else."

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by hemsteadc

[GR "Scott" Cundiff]

12 hours ago, Matthew said:

In my case, I'm healthy.  No past health problems.  Height and weight for a 66 year old are within norms.  Grandpa lived to 99 and dad to 92, both died in their sleep and nether had any health problems that prevented them from enjoying life. 

On the wife's side, one grand mother lived to 93 and the other to 103.  Her mother is still going strong.  Wife had her female plumbing removed and bladder rehung.

So in our case working a few more years, delaying Social Security checks for a few more years will provide for a bigger retirement nest egg for us.

Your mileage will vary.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would want to debate with you about when you plan on retiring.  It's an individual decision and you do a good job of explaining how you arrived at your decision.  
 

We retired a bit early and we are glad we did but I certainly don't think everyone should do what I did.