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mysticmd

National Parks' New Dog Rules?-Updated

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Just got a text from friend visiting Black Canyon National Park with his dog Monte ..... he got a ticket for walking his dog on a leash on the paved road in the campground  $100; was told new rule went into effect June 1 stating dogs are allowed on leash only at campsite, no roads, not even in the campground.     Ranger sounds rambunctious with the ticketing.   If the dog was off the leash, ticket yes.  A new rule, one week old, give campers a break with a stern warning for not knowing... do you think?     Did you all know about this?!!!!!   I'm Googling the topic, and nothing popping up about this so far.

Edited by mysticmd

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I'm answering my own question now, as I just found this.... and apparently very park specific:

 

In Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park, pets on leash may be walked on roads, in North Rim Campground, to the overlooks, and are allowed on the Cedar Point Nature Trail, and North Rim Chasm View Nature Trail. Pets are not allowed on the southern portion of the Rim Rock Trail from June 1 to August 10, but are allowed north of Tomichi Point.

Pets are not allowed on any other hiking trails, inner canyon routes or in the wilderness area. Pets are also not allowed on ranger-led geology walks or evening programs in the campground amphitheater.

Owners are responsible for their pet's behavior and may receive fines if their animal creates problems with wildlife and/or other visitors.

South Rim Campground and Rim Rock Trail Dog Restrictions
From June 1 to August 10, 2018, dogs will be allowed in campsites in South Rim Campground, but may not be taken on walks (even on leash) or be carried around the campground or on the southern portion of the Rim Rock Trail due to potentially aggressive deer protecting their fawns. Over the past few years, female deer have acted aggressively and even attacked park visitors walking dogs. The deer perceive the dog as a threat to their fawns. This has resulted in several deer being euthanized and a visitor almost getting mauled to death.

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23 minutes ago, mysticmd said:

Over the past few years, female deer have acted aggressively and even attacked park visitors walking dogs. The deer perceive the dog as a threat to their fawns. This has resulted in several deer being euthanized and a visitor almost getting mauled to death.

Man, those sound like some tough does!!

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A visitor almost getting mauled to death by a Doe? Ha!😀 Lol. I guess so😜. We volunteered at Rocky Mountain National Park in Moraine Camp ground and had daily and nightly visits from bears. It wasn't  unusual for a bear to tear a cars interior to shreads after gaining access. They had a leash regulation and you could not have your dog on any unpaved roads or trails. 

Inside Moraine campground and the surrounding area you could be mauled by Elk very easily if you agitated the Bucks. Which was another duty they required of you. To walk the roads edge and ask the public to please stay out of the Moraine while the herd was grazing. Its a very large area and gets large amount of people around sunset the come out to see the Elk descend upon the Moraine in the evenings.

Edited by funesytrvl

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Mamas being protective of their kids!   I've heard of the male deer kicking  and the does stomping their feet as a warning but not charging.    Then again, these were East Coast deer - maybe more polite, ha ha.     Guess these partic. deer were too campground familiar to drop their young so close and then get ornery over activity.

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Very interesting.  Guess what pops up just by going the Black Canyon NP:  https://www.nps.gov/blca/index.htm

 

Quote
Park Closures

I would be very highly surprised if there were no warning signs about the dogs on the bulletin boards in the campgrounds. 

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Al F:   I would be very highly surprised if there were no warning signs about the dogs on the bulletin boards in the campgrounds.     -----   I agree they must have had it posted.   But we all think we know what the rules are - 6 ft leash, not in buildings, blah blah blah - and apparently just never concerned himself with standing there reading.  Normally he is a boondocker, so not in the habit of looking for the posted rules, I imagine.    Lesson learned, and $100 contribution to the National Park Service.

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2 minutes ago, mysticmd said:

Al F:   I would be very highly surprised if there were no warning signs about the dogs on the bulletin boards in the campgrounds.     -----   I agree they must have had it posted.   But we all think we know what the rules are - 6 ft leash, not in buildings, blah blah blah - and apparently just never concerned himself with standing there reading.  Normally he is a boondocker, so not in the habit of looking for the posted rules, I imagine.    Lesson learned, and $100 contribution to the National Park Service.

Expensive lesson.  

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A bit more to the story:  Appears the ticketing ranger is a friend of the camp host.   The host called the ranger on my friend walking his dog past her trailer and her barking, lunging German Shepherds.   They got into words when she kept screaming:  You can't walk here, you wan't walk here, and my friend responded:  Why is it my problem you can't control your dogs?     The ranger came and kept querying about 'having any guns/weapons', then came the $100 ticket for the dog on the leash.  Other campers complained about the camp host and her dogs - same issues, saying their kids could not walk by her campsite and be in her loop.  My friend has written a letter to the Park's Superintendent based mostly on poor communication, lack of signs, etc.    - so, to be continued, perhaps.

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4 hours ago, mysticmd said:

A bit more to the story: 

How would your friend even know that the host called? 

It would be interesting to hear of that same incident, as told by the accused park host. 

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The ranger accused him of yelling at the female host.... only one there to make the call of complaint!  (This was a somewhat remote loop)  Then the questioning started about a gun - !   This guy had been camping there for days, walking around the campground with his dog on a leash, all the rangers saw it, there was no problem, he checked in with his dog which they saw - again, no problem, no mention of any new restrictions, nada.   The rangers had even stopped in the past few days just to chat with him while he had his dog - again, no problem - until the yelling started.  Will be interesting how the Supt. of Parks responds.  Yes, there are always two sides to a story, different perspectives, etc.

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A doe with a fawn can/will be very aggressive. I used to work for a man that raised deer, we quite often moved them with trained Border Collie stock dogs. When the does had fawns they would rush to the gate when we approached and yes if we went in they would attack both man and dog.

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Hi "Somewhere" - never heard of anyone raising deer--- Venison farm?      I orig. come from NJ ; deer were considered a huge problem in the Tri-State area as the deer and vehicles crashed, and deer and homeowners clashed.  Sharpshooters were hired by individual communities to resolve problems.   I did view stomping, snorting deer as they munched on homeowners' landscaping and refused to budge as the people yelled, waved arms, threw stones, etc.   

 

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54 minutes ago, mysticmd said:

Hi "Somewhere" - never heard of anyone raising deer--- Venison farm?      I orig. come from NJ ; deer were considered a huge problem in the Tri-State area as the deer and vehicles crashed, and deer and homeowners clashed.  Sharpshooters were hired by individual communities to resolve problems.   I did view stomping, snorting deer as they munched on homeowners' landscaping and refused to budge as the people yelled, waved arms, threw stones, etc.   

 

Google search on "deer farm" and "deer attack". I think you'll be surprised at how prevalent both are. There are a number of deer farming operations in New England, NY, and PA. I don't know of any in NJ, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are some.

On edit: I found some deer farms in NJ as well.

Edited by Dutch_12078
additional info

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Dutch, Hi - I did start reading about 'deer farms' and almost sorry I did.   Horrible photos of humongous deer shot by proud hunters, and the antlers looked like alien mushrooms;   supposedly  a 'secret' by article was suggesting hormonal manipulation and excessive/low quality foods, etc...... and then the hunters get to pay to shoot these engineered 'trophies'.  And here I was foolishly picturing natural/organic grazing for pasture-fed deer and healthy venison.... I trust they're out there, too.

 

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We have several deer and elk farms in Vermont but as far as I know they are not for hunting. In Texas and I assume  other parts of the country they have deer and other game ranches where the animals are contained with perimeter fence but otherwise roam free.

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Notice of Due Process is required so signs informing campers of the rules or information in writing when you check in would be required. If I were the party who got the ticket I would go to court and contest it. 

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48 minutes ago, Twotoes said:

Notice of Due Process is required so signs informing campers of the rules or information in writing when you check in would be required. If I were the party who got the ticket I would go to court and contest it. 

I think you are mistaken. Many of the regulations on public lands (National Park, Forest Service, US Fish & Wildlife) are strict liability just like traffic laws. It is the visitor's responsibility to know the rules. For example, how far one can park an RV from the travelled portion of a Forest Service Road when boondocking is a prime example. The rules are published in the Travel Maps and Motor Vehicle Use Maps (MVUM) and not posted on the ground and not included in general public information.

I believe "Due Process" applies to the implementation of penalties not the initiation of proceedings such as issuing a citation. The citations I am familiar with give an explanation of the accused's right to a trial and due process in the determination of the penalty.

Edited by TCW

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