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Detailed experience setting up Domicile in Florida


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Here is a detailed explanation of the process and what this couple did to set up their domicile in Florida, get their RV registered, drivers licenses and voter registration.

http://rv-dreams.typepad.com/rvdreams_journal/2018/06/setting-up-our-florida-domicile.html

 

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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It is a lot of things to get done.  The TWO FORMS OF ADDRESS PROOF is more difficult then many want to brush off.  You need to get a bank to mail you something.  Statements take a month to get.  Or you need to order something, or get an update to your address and print it off.  Not easy when the mail forwarding service is three states away from the domicile address.  Am sure it will happen, but takes time to organize.  

Just changed my address to my bank, which rejected the BUSHNELL FL address as an RV park, so they needed my sisters address to verify my RV park address.  Read that someone else had to have that done, so did not phase me when called by the bank.

When it stated you need two forms, I always bring three.  When the REAL ID law and homeland security rules took place, you kind of need to make sure no one questions your address or identity.  Just watched a video where someone got the third degree shake down with questions when crossing Canada USA border; as they had Nevada plates and stated they lived in California. 

So speculate that if I drove to Florida to get this all done, am i going to have problems at DMV?  Dont think so, but sure want contingency information.

 

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Sounds really complicated.  Our process was much simpler.  We set up mail forwarding in South Dakota.  We did not have much mail to begin with since all of our financials and bills were electronic.  We then drove to South Dakota and stayed overnight in a RV park.  We took the receipt to DMV and they made all the changes needed for new plates and licenses.  We then stopped at an independent agent and changed our insurances.    We maintained our previous healthcare insurance until we qualified for Medicare.   Everything was done in a couple of hours and we went to lunch. 

We then left South Dakota and did not return.  A couple of years later, we had a major theft including lose of driver's licenses.  I got on the phone with DMV and they emailed a temporary license until we could get new licenses through the mail.    A couple of more years later we settled near relatives and I eventually had to change States of residency because we bought a house.

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  • 1 month later...

adding to and finalizing my comments with what happened yesterday (July 12, 2018) at Fernandina Beach FL (just over border from Georgia on I95 highway - the quickest closest location to drive to without needing to drive all the way to BUSHNELL area, as that is not needed) ---

1)  Everything was done in one hour when they opened at 8am.  Only took an hour!!!  OMG this was outstanding.  Most of the ESCAPEES process was correct for Florida.  I used two bank account previously set up with the new address.  Some just use one bank account and the insurance. (note if you have GEICO make sure they use the Florida address only, and set everything for online billing and correspondence).

2) $850 for truck and RV travel Trailer.  For two years registration.  That included a fee for the specialized plates and a custom ham radio plate.  So maybe $100 extra for that special plate process. Every two years it will be around $250 to renew all by mail.  Eights years for driver license and that can be done by mail too.

3)  They did not like the ESCAPEES number # after the address of the county road, for domicile.  No PMB is acceptable either.  So we just claimed the number is a LOT number.  That worked in the Florida DMV system. This needs to be clarified at ESCAPEES.  But the TX mail forwarding service address was fine, and they had no problem with that in any way.  So two separate addresses can be set and work.

4)  Make sure you have paperwork to prove you are a veteran.  DD214 or such.  Having veteran status on drivers license might help you a little at some future time.  Also double check your motorcycle endorsement is moved over if you have that. 

 

 

 

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Florida has become problematic in the last couple of weeks.  The Supervisor of Elections in Clay County (where St. Brendan's Isle mail service is located) got an advisory opinion from the Florida Department of State concerning registering customers of St. Brendan's Isle to vote.  The advisory opinion ends with this summary:

Customers of a private mail forwarding service who attempt to establish legal residency in a county by filing a Declaration of Domicile that fails to list a residential address or that lists a nonresidential address at which they do not reside and who have no other meaningful contact with the county other than using the services of this enterprise in the county to receive mail, secure a Florida driver license or Florida identification card, and obtain a license plate, or hull number for a boat, without having a past or present physical presence and intent to establish permanent residency in the county is not sufficient to establish residency for voter registration purposes and are most likely not legal residents of the county.

 

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9 hours ago, Blues said:

Customers of a private mail forwarding service who attempt to establish legal residency in a county by filing a Declaration of Domicile that fails to list a residential address or that lists a nonresidential address at which they do not reside and who have no other meaningful contact with the county other than using the services of this enterprise in the county to receive mail, secure a Florida driver license or Florida identification card, and obtain a license plate, or hull number for a boat, without having a past or present physical presence and intent to establish permanent residency in the county is not sufficient to establish residency for voter registration purposes and are most likely not legal residents of the county.

 

And from The 10 Commandments of Texas Domicile, By K. Susie Adams #134068, Attorney at Law:

Quote

Unfortunately, there are five more requirements that aren’t so easy. It’s these other five “commandments” that you must also consider in order to actually be domiciled in Texas.

Number Six: Your connection to the Livingston, Texas, community.
I begin by asking a rather basic question: How much time have you spent in Livingston? What have you done locally to establish ties to the city? How much time do you plan to spend in Texas?

Sometimes, the response is an immediate shrug of the shoulders. If they explain to me that they don’t plan to spend any time in Texas, I tell them about case law, which says to establish domicile in a new state, you must spend time in that state, and you must show that you “intend to make that state your home.”

The courts will look at what community connections you have with your new state. It can be as simple as joining a local tennis club. I ask if they have a local doctor, dentist and veterinarian?

Number Seven: Business Papers
I ask if they have business connections in Texas. Do you have a local accountant? Do you use a local bank? Have you switched your health insurance to a local provider?

Number Eight: Estate Planning
Have you had your wills, trusts and powers of attorney drawn up in Texas? If you intend to make Texas home, as the domicile law requires, this is one way to show that intention.

Number Nine: Real Estate
Where do you own real estate? Do you still own a house somewhere else? Is it rented out or staying vacant until you return home? That will be hard to explain if the taxing authorities of the state you left question your new domicile.

Number Ten: Personality
This is the name for all that stuff that wouldn’t fit into your RV. Where are your personal items stored? If it is stored “back home” in a state you claim is no longer your home, it will make it difficult to prove that it really isn’t your home for domicile purposes.

The entire point is that while most of us are never challenged on our claimed domicile, that does not mean that we could win if we should be challenged. While TX law does recognize the right of a fulltimer to vote in the state and that law was upheld in the TX Supreme Court, even there the law does require more than just getting a driver's license, registering vehicles, and registering to vote. Even if the Escapee intervention should win their point, FL could still demand that you do the other things that are on this list, just as TX could, but had not recently.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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We have had two stints of full timing.  Each time we sold a home and had to change over our address.  The first time we used our oldest son's residence.  It was the same state as our vehicles were registered in and that was where we voted.  The only thing that was different was if we ever had to fill out a credit app we simply checked "renting" at our address instead of "own home".

Fast forward to our current full timing adventure.  We were preparing to do the whole mail forwarding service thing when a good friend of ours offered to let us use her address.  She lives in the same area where we sold our Florida home and it is working out the same as when we used our son's address.  

For us this was just a "cleaner" easier way to handle the whole domicile and address issue while full timing.

Joe & Cindy

Newmar 4369 Ventana

Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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2 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

We were preparing to do the whole mail forwarding service thing when a good friend of ours offered to let us use her address. 

Do you pay for her services? Not a bad choice if you have a reliable person who is willing.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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4 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:
Quote

I [K Susie Adams] tell them about case law, which says to establish domicile in a new state, you must spend time in that state, and you must show that you “intend to make that state your home.”

While TX law does recognize the right of a fulltimer to vote in the state...

For voting purposes, Florida is looking not at the state level, but at the county level.  SBI customers won't be allowed to register to vote if they haven't physically lived in Clay County in the past (or present).  This would apparently include a person who lived and voted in a different Florida county for many years, but is selling his house to go fulltiming, and using SBI.  His domicile is clearly in Florida and could be no place else, but he won't be allowed to register to vote because although he lived in Florida, he didn't live in Clay County

The people at rv-dreams chose Florida, and SBI.  They said in their blog that one consideration was:  "We purchased a rental property in Florida [in The Villages] last year, and down the road it will likely be our top exit plan option when we are ready."  That's a good move for supporting a Florida domicile, but it's a bad move for voting in Clay County.  They got in before Clay County stopped accepting new voter registrations from SBI customers, but the County has said they're going to review all SBI customers' voter registrations. 

I wonder if the rv-dreams people should have registered to vote at their address in The Villages, or if that would be subject to challenge because they're currently using it only as a rental property and have never actually lived there.

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5 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

Do you pay for her services? Not a bad choice if you have a reliable person who is willing.

We don't pay her anything.  She was our neighbor back in Illinois when we were all raising our kids.  She is by herself and is one of the DWs oldest friends.  I take care of any repair stuff around her condo that I can when we are camped in the area for the winter.  We leave her stamped large padded envelopes for times when we are not having mail forwarded, like in August when I have to renew all my Florida registrations.  It works really great because we trust her to open any mail for us if need be.

Joe & Cindy

Newmar 4369 Ventana

Pulling 24' enclosed (Mini Cooper, Harley, 2 Kayaks)

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Most interesting.  I wonder if SBI the mail forwarding service could/should ask all their customers to vote in the next election for the county Elections Supervisor and perhaps vote him out of office before he can purge everyone from the voting roles.  3000 votes would make a huge impact in the election.

As an aside, I strongly feel we RV'ers should NOT be voting in the local elections where we have very limited or no knowledge of the candidates.  That is what we did when we used the Escapees service in Livingston, TX as our domicile.  We did vote for state wide and national candidates. 

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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10 minutes ago, Al F said:

I wonder if SBI the mail forwarding service could/should ask all their customers to vote in the next election for the county Elections Supervisor and perhaps vote him out of office before he can purge everyone from the voting roles.  3000 votes would make a huge impact in the election.

That is exactly the issue that has brought this about. As an RVer, I take the side of supporting our right to vote where we pay taxes, but if I were a local resident it might be that I would see things differently. While Escapee's do encourage their members not to vote for local offices or issues, there is nothing to prevent us from taking part and anyone who reads RV forums can quickly see that many of those who use the mail services as domicile have no intention of ever living in that area. It isn't an easy issue to deal with fairly for everyone. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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7 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

That is exactly the issue that has brought this about. As an RVer, I take the side of supporting our right to vote where we pay taxes, but if I were a local resident it might be that I would see things differently. While Escapee's do encourage their members not to vote for local offices or issues, there is nothing to prevent us from taking part and anyone who reads RV forums can quickly see that many of those who use the mail services as domicile have no intention of ever living in that area. It isn't an easy issue to deal with fairly for everyone. 

Or for the locals there is the issue of seeing all "them there foreigner's" (foreigner's being anyone who isn't from our small community) coming and and voting in our local elections.  It matters little if there is any threat of the RV'ers actually doing this.  What matters in the fear of the foreigner's.

This is not limited to small communities.

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Journey 36G 
2020 Chevy Colorado Toad
San Antonio, TX

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

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When we domiciled in South Dakota we only voted for national offices unless there was a referendum that would affect us. South Dakota saw us RVers as a positive because we increased their census numbers without increasing the need for services. Perhaps that could be shared with Clay County.

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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6 minutes ago, sandsys said:

Perhaps that could be shared with Clay County.

Polk County, TX not only has no serious issues with that but the local folks realize that Escapees are one of the largest employers and contribute a large share of the local economy. But there was a challenge by a losing candidate for county commissioner back in the late 1990's. Today relations with the community are very good.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

Polk County, TX not only has no serious issues with that but the local folks realize that Escapees are one of the largest employers and contribute a large share of the local economy. But there was a challenge by a losing candidate for county commissioner back in the late 1990's. Today relations with the community are very good.

I doubt that Escapees are "one of the largest employers" in Polk County. Here is a list of the 20 largest employers in Polk County. Escapees is not on it...

  • Georgia Pacific

  • State & Local Law Enforcement

  • Alabama-Coushatta Tribe of Texas

    • Naskila Entertainment Center

  • Livingston ISD

  • Wal-Mart Super Center

  • CHI St. Luke's Health

  • Polk County (Gov't)

  • Lowe's Home Improvement

  • Brookshire Brothers

  • Corrigan/Camden ISD

  • Onalaska ISD

  • Sam Houston Electric Coop

  • The Bradford

  • Timberwood Nursing & Rehab.

  • First National Bank

  • Management & Training Corporation

  • RoyOMartin 

  • Pine Ridge Health Care

  • First State Bank

  • City of Livingston

Mark & Teri

2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350

Mark & Teri's Travels

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No doubt. A positive impact for sure.

But let's not get too carried away regarding their status as an employer or their providing "a large share" of the local economy.

You can see from the list above that Georgia Pacific  (Timber, paper, building products) is the largest employer in the county. And there is a prison just outside of Livingston that employs over 800 people with an annual payroll approaching $20 million. Now those are major economic drivers...

Mark & Teri

2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350

Mark & Teri's Travels

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On 7/20/2018 at 6:29 PM, remoandiris said:

Consider college towns that allow students to vote, even though they'll be there for only 4 yrs or less.  Austin, TX comes to mind.

Letting college students vote where they're attending school has been an issue, but not for the same reasons that letting fulltimers vote where their mail service is has become an issue.

The difference is that the students are actually physically living in the county in question, and the problem with fulltimers using a mail service is that they are not actually physically living in the county in question. 

 

 

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On 7/24/2018 at 11:37 AM, Blues said:

Letting college students vote where they're attending school has been an issue, but not for the same reasons that letting fulltimers vote where their mail service is has become an issue.

The difference is that the students are actually physically living in the county in question, and the problem with fulltimers using a mail service is that they are not actually physically living in the county in question. 

 

 

Meh.  Both situations allow a temporary resident to vote.  One day or 4 years, their vote on issues could resonate well beyond their stay.

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