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Tesla battery for RVing


Loki

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I think, everyone who wants to get serious about living off-the-grid (and saving thousands of dollars annually) wants to watch how these RVers enhanced their boondocking capability by replacing lead-acid batteries with a Tesla battery module: 

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Considering the fact that lead acid batteries can  be only discharged down to about 65% of their capacity on a regular basis without compromising their life expectancy, whereas a lithium battery can be used down to 15% for their entire life span (which per se is much longer than that of a lead acid battery), you would need about 8-10 conventional 110 Ah batteries to yield the same usable energy before recharging. That's more than 10 times the space and weight. Of course, nobody is doing that - more than 440 Ah is not practical. But that's about half the usable energy and 5 times the weight of a Tesla battery module.

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My friend put an entire Tesla model S battery in his off-grid house, he runs AC/Geothermal, everything from it and recharges with a ton of solar panels.  I posted on here about it and folks didn't seem to be impressed 🙂

I plan on getting one model from a model S and can charge it every couple days when I am somewhere with hookups.

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I think Volt batteries can be picked up quite a bit cheaper than the Tesla batteries based on the name alone, but as mentioned the Volt batteries are configured in 48v so you need a 48v to 12v step down converter vs only needing a 24v t 12v on the Tesla. If you've priced a 48v to 12v converter, they are pretty pricey compared to a 24v to 12v one. 

I almost wondered if you went the Volt route if it would be cheaper to keep the 12v systems on say 2 6v batteries maybe on a standard converter. Let the higher end charge controller charge the 48v batteries. I'm not sure the whole logistics though of getting both sets of batteries to charge off solar? I guess that would require 2 charge controllers. Hmm that may not work as well as it did in my head. :D

Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK
Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin

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2 hours ago, GlennWest said:

In my case just lights, furnace, water pump. Now slides and Jack's separate battery. Now I question if that small battery in video will run Jack's and slides. 

That Tesla battery? Sure why not. If my math is correct, I think that 5.3kwh translates to around 232ah at 24v or 464ah at 12v. Those things pack way more punch then a conventional led acid battery. Most RV's get cheap 12v hybrid batteries that have maybe 80ah on them. 

Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK
Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin

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11 hours ago, GlennWest said:

In my case just lights, furnace, water pump. Now slides and Jack's separate battery. Now I question if that small battery in video will run Jack's and slides. 

It would be interesting to know if the Tesla battery can handle the jack and slide motors. 

2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger "
  Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood "
    2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog "
 

 

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23 minutes ago, alan0043 said:

It would be interesting to know if the Tesla battery can handle the jack and slide motors. 

Pretty sure it can, with proper wiring. Video said capable of 1000 amps continuous, [short period obviously]. You slide and jack motors are probably not more than 100 amps. 400 amp/hrs in a lithium is equivalent to 3 or 4 8D lead cell batteries for output.

 

Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM  1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement.

 

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I was commenting on the small 12 volt battery he had for slides. The Tesla battery has plenty of juice for this but its 24V. Now that buck converter would likely burn up trying to run that load thru it.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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Guys these questions are from a kinda truck guy who calls his trailer a "trailer" or "toyhauler" and the thing that couples to the pin on the trailer (which is actually a semi trailer don't believe me ask Big5er)  a "5th wheel". 

And what pulls the above a "tractor" if it has a nekked frame with only a 5th wheel and a "truck" if it has a body/deck... 

Who is a big electrical dummie...

Isn't a device that steps voltage up or down a "transformer"?

And in rv speak a converter converts ac current to dc current ?- usually 110v ac to 12v - 15v dc? 

Isn't one of the main benefits of old fashioned batteries is they don't mind sitting plugged into rv parks, being charged at 20F, solar charging and generally taking crap and abuse while working on their top 10 or 20% of capacity...

Isn't some of the main benefits of lithium rv chemistry batteries light weight, very fast charge recovery  (as in generator run time) when boondocking, and more safe usable capacity ( 80% of rated amp hrs I think I read), self protection from excessive discharge...

Not a benefit - accidental oops a daisie if you try to charge them a 5 below zero? Farewell $$$?

Anyhoo - if I were plugged into shore power 90% / more wouldn't I stay with plain old less expensive technology?

If I were boondocking and had lotsa solar to charge all daylight hours - old battery tech?

If I were boondocking - cloud country - shade - lithium - for fast charge by generator, auto alternator on the road, solar, wind?

And then specifically to this thread: what is the attraction to car lithium batteries of the wrong voltage for an rv? Is it cost and the challenge of doing a project?

Thanks

Signed 

Trying to learn this off grid electric stuff

 

"Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. 

 

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19 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

I was commenting on the small 12 volt battery he had for slides. The Tesla battery has plenty of juice for this but its 24V. Now that buck converter would likely burn up trying to run that load thru it.

I see your point now. They do make bigger converters, the bus converters use them, but do not how reliable they are. https://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-to-12V-100A-STEP-DOWN-DC-DC-CONVERTER-REGULATOR-REDUCER-100AMP-1200W-US-Ship-/322066948349

Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM  1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement.

 

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23 minutes ago, noteven said:

Guys these questions are from a kinda truck guy who calls his trailer a "trailer" or "toyhauler" and the thing that couples to the pin on the trailer (which is actually a semi trailer don't believe me ask Big5er)  a "5th wheel". 

And what pulls the above a "tractor" if it has a nekked frame with only a 5th wheel and a "truck" if it has a body/deck... 

Who is a big electrical dummie...

Isn't a device that steps voltage up or down a "transformer"?

And in rv speak a converter converts ac current to dc current ?- usually 110v ac to 12v - 15v dc? 

Isn't one of the main benefits of old fashioned batteries is they don't mind sitting plugged into rv parks, being charged at 20F, solar charging and generally taking crap and abuse while working on their top 10 or 20% of capacity...

Isn't some of the main benefits of lithium rv chemistry batteries light weight, very fast charge recovery  (as in generator run time) when boondocking, and more safe usable capacity ( 80% of rated amp hrs I think I read), self protection from excessive discharge...

Not a benefit - accidental oops a daisie if you try to charge them a 5 below zero? Farewell $$$?

Anyhoo - if I were plugged into shore power 90% / more wouldn't I stay with plain old less expensive technology?

If I were boondocking and had lotsa solar to charge all daylight hours - old battery tech?

If I were boondocking - cloud country - shade - lithium - for fast charge by generator, auto alternator on the road, solar, wind?

And then specifically to this thread: what is the attraction to car lithium batteries of the wrong voltage for an rv? Is it cost and the challenge of doing a project?

Thanks

Signed 

Trying to learn this off grid electric stuff

 

Lot more stuff available with 24 or 48 volts. Think residential vs rv.  The beauty of these car batteries is you can run the whole camper on them with the right inverters. Steve Dixon does this. I like the configuration of the Tesla battery. Stops there though. Really believe the Volt battery better choice.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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Not sure about 5th wheelers and trailers, but more and more motorhomes are going all electric. These coaches require a lot of power for fridges, stoves etc. This means a lot of battery power. Combine this with tile/marble floors, countertops etc, and you are fast approaching the max axle weights of many 2 and some 3 axle coaches. Of course, for power you can run your generator all the time, but installing 300 lbs of lithium batteries compared to 2000 lbs of lead acid is becoming more popular.  Parliament Coach [before they went broke] actually designed a bus that used 48 volt lithium battery banks, with a 48 volt dedicated dc generator with inverters running all 110 equipment. It was so efficient [48 volt ac units] that they could run entire coach, including ac's for 72 hours on battery alone, before generator lit off.

Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM  1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement.

 

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18 hours ago, BlueLghtning said:

That Tesla battery? Sure why not. If my math is correct, I think that 5.3kwh translates to around 232ah at 24v or 464ah at 12v. Those things pack way more punch then a conventional led acid battery. Most RV's get cheap 12v hybrid batteries that have maybe 80ah on them. 

Just for comparison to YOUR statement (464 ah at 12v) my four Trojan T-105's wired in series/parallel are rated 450 Amp Hours at 12 volt, not much less then 464 Amp Hours but cheaper I bet ??

I'm unsure of the rating of the 12 volt so called RV/Marine "hybrid" batteries but for sure I prefer true Deep Cycle myself for RV dry camping purposes.

Take care Blue, nice chatting with you.

John T

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29 minutes ago, oldjohnt said:

Just for comparison to YOUR statement (464 ah at 12v) my four Trojan T-105's wired in series/parallel are rated 450 Amp Hours at 12 volt, not much less then 464 Amp Hours but cheaper I bet ??

I'm unsure of the rating of the 12 volt so called RV/Marine "hybrid" batteries but for sure I prefer true Deep Cycle myself for RV dry camping purposes.

Take care Blue, nice chatting with you.

John T

John, can you draw your Trojans  down to 10 or 20% SOC? If so I will stop looking for Lithiums and buy your deep cycle batteries. Appreciate you chatting with me. As I am already toting around 42000 lbs, If I can save 3-400 lbs battery weight, I am happy.

 

 

.

Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM  1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement.

 

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4 hours ago, oldjohnt said:

Just for comparison to YOUR statement (464 ah at 12v) my four Trojan T-105's wired in series/parallel are rated 450 Amp Hours at 12 volt, not much less then 464 Amp Hours but cheaper I bet ??

I'm unsure of the rating of the 12 volt so called RV/Marine "hybrid" batteries but for sure I prefer true Deep Cycle myself for RV dry camping purposes.

Take care Blue, nice chatting with you.

John T

John, that's actually what I have also 4 T105's at 225ah each, so 450 total. However, we can only use 225ah of that vs the Tesla that could easily use about 37ah of that and much higher discharge and charge rates. 

Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK
Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin

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22 minutes ago, ALLOY said:

My preference was Lithium but I ended up with FLA.

Couldn't find a Lithium system lasting longer than FLA.

 

Not sure what you mean there? I certainly have nothing to go on since I don't have Lithiums yet, but Lithiums are supposed to out last FLA by a long shot. That's one of their big advantages over FLA. I haven't decided if i would be keeping this rig that long to actually make that time back and I figured if I was going to kill batteries from being stupid as I learned about things, it would be better off to be FLA first time around. :D  I really do want Lithiums though at some point. 

I think Technomadia who was pretty early into the Lithium is about 5-6 years in on theirs, maybe more? 

Dan (Class of 2017) - 2012 Ram 3500 & 2005 Alpenlite Valhalla 29RK
Contact me at rvsolarconsulting.com or Two Wheel Ramblin

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Think if you look into charging cycles, lithium discharged to 20% will be far higher than lead acid batteries discharged to 50%. Many disadvantages to Lithium, but they are becoming fewer every year. Tesla is now warranting their batteries 8 full years in their cars, and you know they will be mistreated.

 

Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM  1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement.

 

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I'm still using oldddddddddddd fashion Flooded Lead Acid and may go to AGM or other technology the next time.  I'm happy to let the dust settle, technology and safety improve, cost come down, and let others be the guinea pigs as new technologies emerge. My energy needs are quite modest unlike some who require much more so I'm fine where I'm at being able to dry camp INDEFINITELY (electrical energy) with my current Solar and Battery set up. But if my energy requirements increase at that time I will research the latest technology.  Heck Lithium is old hat by now lol and NOT the best and latest theory from an article I read only yesterday, it looks like Potassium Ion has faster recharge time, increased life cycles, deep withdraw capacity, and not so much heat, fire, or explosion risks (per some info in the article). Of course, each has different energy requirements and different budgets and has the choice to use whatever method they choose which I fully support TO EACH THEIR OWN..............  

Ain't technology Grand, I'm studying AGM, Lithium and will Potassium in the future should my energy requirements increase drastically that is. 

PS The article describing the advantages of Potassium over Lithium paraphrased above was taken from "Engineering Impact" Purdue University, Spring 2018. If anyone wants to disagree with the article, take it up with Purdue University, NOT me I'm ONLY the messenger, no warranties express or implied. Purdue may have it right or wrong ????  

God Bless all

John T

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On 5/4/2018 at 8:49 PM, BlueLghtning said:

Not sure what you mean there? I certainly have nothing to go on since I don't have Lithiums yet, but Lithiums are supposed to out last FLA by a long shot. That's one of their big advantages over FLA. I haven't decided if i would be keeping this rig that long to actually make that time back and I figured if I was going to kill batteries from being stupid as I learned about things, it would be better off to be FLA first time around. :D  I really do want Lithiums though at some point. 

I think Technomadia who was pretty early into the Lithium is about 5-6 years in on theirs, maybe more? 

Couldn't find any reports of RV lithium outlasting FLA nor do Lithium battery warranties back up the claim.

 

Edit: To ensure Lithium batteries in electric vehicles last X number of years the batteries are oversized. As the batteries age the commuter automatically changes the amount of capacity used. 

 

 

2011 Cameo 34SB3

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